Sialeed's "Decision" *SPOILER*

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Lisard

Post by Lisard »

Another recent game finisher here. Really interesting thread, this. My take on Sialeeds:

I found the Dolph conversation intersting. Just before Lyon duals him, Dolph reveals himself to be an emotionless creature who lived to kill. Stereotypical Nether Gate stuff. But he's also a damn clever schemer, that Dolph.

My take is that in the meeting with Sialeeds in the fortress, Dolph pointed out to her that the Prince wasn't the kind of person who could provide the absolute solution that the country needed -- namely killing off the families that had caused so much strife in the country.

Sialeeds on the other had, is the kind of person who lets her emotions rule her and a ruthless political thinker. She's a tomboy who's first thought is violence when her nephew's name is besmirched, and Haswar aknowledges her political skill when she deals with Logg & Lunn in Lunas. A little word in her ear from Dolph would have been all that was needed to get her to reach the required conclusion. And Dolph would have the satisfaction of spreading more destruction and killing -- just what he and Nether Gate live for.

I agree that her logic was perhaps flawed. There's always another option than killing, and the new philosophy of Lym & the Prince's Falena would certainly have followed this more peaceful philosophy. But Sialeeds actions certainly made is easier for those who rebuilt after the conflict to make sweeping changes -- I agree with a previous poster who suggests that Barrows & Godwin (or their supporters) in the senate would not have allowed them to abolish and set up the Parliament. Sialeeds actions meant that a line could firmly be drawn under the 'old' Falena and a new era begun under Lym and the Prince.

And yes. I realise that if I were to tell this to Ferid & Arshtat they would tell me that it was all just 'conjecture.' But that doesn't make it any less valid, of fun! ;)
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Silver Dragon Flik
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Post by Silver Dragon Flik »

Sialeeds betrayed Lucretia, not the prince. Sialeeds wanted to get rid of the senate herself.

It really doesn't make sense about what would happen if the prince killed Barows. They overcame any bad situation.

And it wasn't all lies that the Godwin spread. There were also a lot of people who believed in the Godwins and was the best for the land.
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Rai-Jin
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Post by Rai-Jin »

redeyesblind wrote:I mentioned this before myself. I think Sialeeds was just an idiot. My logic is simple, if she wanted to clean out the Barrows and Godwin family, why did she have to betray? The Barrows family, just like Salem himself said, "It's over..." Their dynasty is done for. As for the Godwins, do we honestly think the Prince or the Queen are going to let them live?
Dont forget it was Dolphs order to kill Salum. After she killed Salum she meets with Dolph outside, without him knowing if she did it now or not. He tells her "If you want me to get the job done let me do it" but she says "I already have taken care of the job"
bla
Falenan_descent
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Post by Falenan_descent »

Okay, so, after just replaying Suikoden V...I finally, hopefully, understand why Sialeeds did what she did. She swapped sides because she feared that the Prince was too passionate and wouldn't have the heart to kill off the real issues in Falena. So, she went to Godwin's side to get a good shot at Barows and Godwin himself. But, she failed in the latter.
Griffin

Post by Griffin »

I want to point out some things that seem to be forgotten in this thread.

Before Sialeeds went to Godwin's side, it was Dolph who trapped her. We never found out what he truely said or did. (I want to throw in the possibility that there could have been something Dolph did to Sialeeds)

Then haven't you noticed, when Sialeeds first comes to the palace (where Lym and Gizel are) she seems completely sure of herself (like she has a plan on her own, which she does have) and still "normal" and there doesn't seem any malice or something against the prince, just against the Godwins and Gizel (when we see her whispering to herself).

What Sialeeds didn't suspect is - I want to point out - that the twilight rune (she planned to get I guess) would be changing her aswell! She just went arrogant and thought she is the one fated host for the rune. Like the sun rune changed Arshtat! That is very important!

You sure must have noticed how Sialeeds suddenly is very different, of course there is still something of herself, too. But well like with Arshtat!

And pointing out aswell, the rune is named TWILIGHT! ^^ Good - Evil - the twilight in between.

I am very very sure and convinced that Sialeeds always wanted to stay on the "good" side, so with the prince.
And later when she attacks Childerich with the twilight rune, it's the fight within herself against the rune that wants to control her. I consider it one of her greatest victories that she could control it for the time being and not attack the prince. But help him from within, as she had planned at the beginning.

Really her only fault was that she really thought she could pull it of all by herself and that the prince and co + herself couldn't. That's her ego that we all know (...and love)!

And yes, when Sialeeds lies dying and the twilight rune is taken of her...for a brief moment, she is back "normal" again. :) As Lucretia points out that she, Sialeeds, could have killed the Prince several times, and yet, she didn't, Sialeeds laughs because she realizes that Lucretia hasn't understood at all, and so she says that she really hates Lucretia.

Ah and yes: a brilliant unforgettable character in an outstanding game.
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son_michael
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Post by son_michael »

Griffin wrote:I want to point out some things that seem to be forgotten in this thread.

Before Sialeeds went to Godwin's side, it was Dolph who trapped her. We never found out what he truely said or did. (I want to throw in the possibility that there could have been something Dolph did to Sialeeds)

dolph didn't trap her, he reasoned with her to join there side
Then haven't you noticed, when Sialeeds first comes to the palace (where Lym and Gizel are) she seems completely sure of herself (like she has a plan on her own, which she does have) and still "normal" and there doesn't seem any malice or something against the prince, just against the Godwins and Gizel (when we see her whispering to herself).
she was being mean to lym and acting like she didn't care so this goes against your twilight rune changing her theory
What Sialeeds didn't suspect is - I want to point out - that the twilight rune (she planned to get I guess) would be changing her aswell! She just went arrogant and thought she is the one fated host for the rune. Like the sun rune changed Arshtat! That is very important!
she never planned to get the twilight rune, Gizel came up with the Idea and only the Sun Rune can change its bearer because the Sun Rune is 1 of the 27 true runes so it has a curse, the twilight and dawn runes were meant to stop that curse so it dosen't make sense that either 1 of them could take over there bearers

also...she never said anything about her being the fated host for the rune ect and she never showed signs of mental instability like arshtat did
You sure must have noticed how Sialeeds suddenly is very different, of course there is still something of herself, too. But well like with Arshtat!
yea its called lying,pretending ect... she is acting different and mean in order to make the Godwins believe she truly wants to fight the prince

also she is upset with herself for hurting the prince and lym, so she is convincing herself that she's the bad guy....bassically if she keeps acting like the bad guy it puts her mind off how she's hurting people and prevents her from feeling guilt and depression


not sure if I explained that 100% right..if someone wants to jump in and elebarate on what I said then please feel free to do so
And pointing out aswell, the rune is named TWILIGHT! ^^ Good - Evil - the twilight in between.
twilight= when the sun is going down and its almost night....nothing to do with good and evil...unless you want to consider night as evil
I am very very sure and convinced that Sialeeds always wanted to stay on the "good" side, so with the prince.
And later when she attacks Childerich with the twilight rune, it's the fight within herself against the rune that wants to control her. I consider it one of her greatest victories that she could control it for the time being and not attack the prince. But help him from within, as she had planned at the beginning.
she's had full control over the rune and she was shown wanting to never use it on the prince
Really her only fault was that she really thought she could pull it of all by herself and that the prince and co + herself couldn't. That's her ego that we all know (...and love)!
she wanted to murder the godwins and the barrows because she felt like the prince and lym couldn't do it cause they were kids, she also didn't want there hands stained with blood
And yes, when Sialeeds lies dying and the twilight rune is taken of her...for a brief moment, she is back "normal" again. :) As Lucretia points out that she, Sialeeds, could have killed the Prince several times, and yet, she didn't, Sialeeds laughs because she realizes that Lucretia hasn't understood at all, and so she says that she really hates Lucretia.
she was normal the whole time, she was only acting like a bad guy for the reasons I explained above



Ah and yes: a brilliant unforgettable character in an outstanding game.
yea I liked her character alot
sunstar25
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Post by sunstar25 »

Executing Godwin and Barows for the crime of treason would have definitely reflected badly on Frey and Lym. Which is why Sialeeds killed Salum herself.

However, Frey did kill Gizel. In a duel to prove which one of them is truly superior which would not reflect badly on the royal siblings since it was under battle conditions.

Marscal let himself get killed by the Sun Rune.
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Iku
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Post by Iku »

i agree with griffin,just because its not a true rune it still may have the sort of power that true runes possess, it did used to be part of the night rune + sun rune so its not much of a stretch to say that it can alter your personaility, for all we know a regular fire rune may make someone a bit more passionate or something we dont really know enough about runes to say that ordinary/regular runes cant affect your behaviour like true runes, maybe not to the extremes displayed in the sun rune but its still a possiblilty!
night and day normally symbolize good and evil so its quite good logic to say that sialeeds was fight over the two aspects of twilight! :wink:
'Believed the evidence of your own eyes, did ya? In a place like this?' Granny Weatherwax
Griffin

Post by Griffin »

son_michael wrote:she was being mean to lym and acting like she didn't care so this goes against your twilight rune changing her theory
She was pretending there, it still looked "normal"...
...later with the rune it clearly got out of control...
the twilight rune was definitely controlling her at parts.

There was a struggle in Sialeeds between good and evil.

@ Iku
Totally same opinion :)! *hugs*

twilight = The period of time between darkness and sunrise.

Ever played zelda-twilight princess? ^^ in the darkness the world is evil, in the light the world is good ^^!
twilight is always the synonym for the inbetween, the fight against evil, prevail of the good.
The shades inbetween...!

http://www.yourdictionary.com/ahd/t/t0436500.html
An area of ambiguity between two distinct states or conditions: a twilight zone between good and evil.
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son_michael
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Post by son_michael »

there's no other way to say this..except...your both wrong


Sialeeds was not changed by the twilight rune, I just beat suikoden 5 today and I saw the scenes where sialeeds kills childerichs soldiers in stormfist and then right after that when we get to her in the castle she threatens to attack us

im telling you...the twilight rune did not change her against her will...even when Sialeeds was gonna use the twiight rune to break the sol Falena dam to kill the prince's army...Lucretia reveals the REAL reason was because Godwin was gonna do it anyway with the Sun rune...so if Sialeeds did it first then there was a chance the prince would survive but if Godwin did it with the Sun rune then there would be no hope


you guys need to playt he game again and understand that Sialeeds did everything for THE SIDE OF GOOD she was never influenced by the twilight rune
Griffin

Post by Griffin »

son_michael wrote: you guys need to playt he game again and understand that Sialeeds did everything for THE SIDE OF GOOD she was never influenced by the twilight rune
Nobody can be so SURE, it's all a bit shady when it comes to Sialeeds. She just is so mysterious. And it was written mysteriously aswell. It is meant to be like that. Nobody REALLY knows what exactly was going on.

I am sure what we saw of Sialeeds was first pretending in front of Gizel (and Lym). I did recognise the acting there. But later (when the TWILIGHT rune possesses her) clearly at times she had her struggles to maintain staying on the good side. And how she spoke to us (the prince, georg etc., the people she loves) when she is the host of the twilight rune, she would have never spoken THAT way before.

Still she could maintain to actually stay on the good side. Brilliant Sialeeds...!

I just played Suikoden 5 aswell.
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son_michael
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Post by son_michael »

Griffin wrote: Nobody can be so SURE, it's all a bit shady when it comes to Sialeeds. She just is so mysterious. And it was written mysteriously aswell. It is meant to be like that. Nobody REALLY knows what exactly was going on.

I am sure what we saw of Sialeeds was first pretending in front of Gizel (and Lym). I did recognise the acting there. But later (when the TWILIGHT rune possesses her) clearly at times she had her struggles to maintain staying on the good side. And how she spoke to us (the prince, georg etc., the people she loves) when she is the host of the twilight rune, she would have never spoken THAT way before.

Still she could maintain to actually stay on the good side. Brilliant Sialeeds...!

I just played Suikoden 5 aswell.

honestly I dont know what your talking about...you admit she was acting but then you say but then she got possesed by the twilight rune...

ok how about this...


you name the time/place/situation that she supposebly gets possesed and ill see if I can counter it,because im preety much 100% sure she was never changed from the twilight rune.


oh and here's another thing...if she was evil then why didn't the twilight rune do the same to Lyon?
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Post by darkphoenix »

probabbly cuase Lyon had it for a very short time. plus she might be less influenceable than Siasleeds
Griffin

Post by Griffin »

up to the point when Sialeeds doesn't have the twilight rune she is still "normal", when she is acting in front of Lym for example, I still see only Sialeeds there, no real malice, just giving us her show. Like later on when she has the twilight rune, she is very much different. She is ruthlessly speaking, possessed somewhat, still somewhere there is Sialeeds of course just everything to the extreme. The "normal" Sialeeds would have never done the things she did at the very end. I mean she was about to kill her beloved friends.

And extreme sarcasm! Her sensitivity was gone! (she regained that at the end, when she lost the twilight rune)
darkphoenix wrote:probabbly cuase Lyon had it for a very short time. plus she might be less influenceable than Siasleeds
Runes have a different influence on everyone. Although the twilight rune is literally Sialeeds rune (it's not the fire rune, nor the thankyouverymuch rune, no it's the TWILIGHT rune, chosen by the creators with an ulterior motive --> Sialeeds), she was never meant to own it.

First because she was somewhat unstable these days (no offence Sialeeds *g*), and because it's probably meant to be owned by Lyon or the Prince.

And they are speaking about compatibility of the twilight rune. Alenia didn't have that at all. She couldn't even get to the powers of the twilight rune. Sialeeds could, but there was a price she had to pay for this...!
darkphoenix wrote:because im preety much 100% sure she was never changed from the twilight rune.
Good for you ^^!
Just ask the creators why it was in particular the twilight rune. I's called metaphorical meanings.

(not to speak about the apparent changes in the character)

And of course Sialeeds plans were ridding Falena from the bad guys. And she achieved that. But Sialeeds didn't expect the twilight rune to change her so much that she could barely stop herself from destroying her friends, the good side, aswell.
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Iku
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Post by Iku »

the fact that sialeeds kept dying her hair blonde and stopped dying it once she got the twilight rune is a sign that it somehow changed her, perhaps before she thought that being on the outside of the royal family suited her fine but when she got the rune it made her think that her role was more important then that, and as we saw, she look like one of he royal family, this is just speculation but i do think her change of hair colour is significant!
son michael its not very polite to say someone is wrong when we're all just speculating, if you were a member of the creation team for s5 then youd be able to say that but your not, well not to my knowledge, so be either more open minded or just say you disagree rather then just saying someone is wrong!! :o
'Believed the evidence of your own eyes, did ya? In a place like this?' Granny Weatherwax
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