Killing the generals and Kasios

Jowy Atreides · Post by **Jowy Atreides** » Wed Mar 30, 2005 6:00 pm

Sonya and Teo weren't under the control of a Black Rune. Only Kwanda, Milich, and Barbarossa had Black Runes.

highwind44029 · Post by **highwind44029** » Wed Mar 30, 2005 6:26 pm

What about the one she used on Ted?

Jowy Atreides · Post by **Jowy Atreides** » Wed Mar 30, 2005 6:47 pm

Do you clearly remember Ted having a Black Rune? I don't, but it's been a while.

highwind44029 · Post by **highwind44029** » Wed Mar 30, 2005 8:15 pm

Jowy Atreides wrote:Do you clearly remember Ted having a Black Rune? I don't, but it's been a while.

Ted said Windy used the Conqueror Rune to control him, but he was able to communicate through the Soul Eater. Isn't the Conqueror Rune the same as the Black Rune?

Jowy Atreides · Post by **Jowy Atreides** » Wed Mar 30, 2005 8:46 pm

Okay, I was just checking.

I always thought the Black Runes were the ones that the slaves wore and the Conquerer Rune is the master rune that controls the Black Runes. But,
Suikosource says they're the same thing so I'll go with that.

Irish Pesmerga · Post by **Irish Pesmerga** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 7:58 am

Red Killey wrote:
Irish Pesmerga wrote:Kasim was always the closest companion of Barbarossa (after Teo), thats why he is most important and the one who has to join you, also did he have a Black Rune like the other 3 Generals, I don't think he did
Nope, only Kwanda and Milich were the ones under Black Rune control.

so there is another reason then, Kasim was never under any influence by Windy, he was doing what he thought was right for the Empire, and then when he joined, it was what he though t was right

Post by **Oppenheimer** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 8:33 am

Teo was stubbornly loyal to the emperor and so was Kasim. Sonya was in love with Teo and pretty much followed his ideals. So there wasn't any need to control them with the black rune.

I don't think Ted ever had a black rune. I think that Windy was just using the Conqueror rune on Ted when he was in her presence. The only time Ted mentions being under the control of the Conqueror rune (@ Seek Valley) Windy is standing right behind him. I think black runes are more for extending the Conqueror rune's power when Windy isn't present (plus allowing the user to control monsters).

demon eye · Post by **demon eye** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 8:43 am

Nope, the Conqueror Rune and the Black Rune are both one and the same. Both allowed Windy to control the person who she placed one on and both allowed the user to control monsters. Conqueror Rune = Black Rune

Post by **Oppenheimer** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 8:56 am

demon eye wrote:Conqueror Rune = Black Rune

I'm afraid I have to disagree. The Conqueror Rune is a true rune, if I'm not mistaken, and you can't have multiple true runes, so there couldn't be three Conqueror runes (one for Windy, Milich, and Kawanda). I think the black runes are to the Conqueror Rune as Rage Runes are to the True Fire rune.

demon eye · Post by **demon eye** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 9:12 am

It's fine to disagree, but the fact is that the Conqueror Rune and Black Rune are the same. The Conqueror Rune is the official name for the Black Rune according to canon Suikoden Information sourcebooks. Please refer to the History section of this site and check under the True Runes section to see where this is mentioned.

EDIT: Nevermind, I will post it here for you.

Conquerer Rune
Current Owner: N/A

Past Owners: Windy

The Conquerer Rune is often thought of as a True Rune, but some simple logic will tell otherwise. For one thing, even Windy can only wield two true runes at once. The fact the she already had the Front Gate Rune, and her attempt to get the Souleater would make it obvious that the conquerer rune is a normal rune (albeit quite rare). Also, sources list this rune to be a "Miscellaneous Rune" (such as the official guide). In fact, the Conquerer Rune is merely the official name of the Black Rune, which Windy uses to control Kwanda Rossman and Milich Oppenheimer.

Black Rune
Current Owner: N/A

Past Owners: Windy

Refer to Conquerer Rune.

from Suikosource.com

Post by **Oppenheimer** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 9:25 am

Ah yes, you're right the gate rune is her true rune. I can't believe I forgot that. I was thinking it was the conqueror rune for a moment. She certainly has a lot of runes.

Still, if the conqueror rune is the same as the black rune then why doesn't Milich have control over Windy? See what I'm saying. If he has the conqueror rune, and so does Windy, why doesn't he have control over her, like she has over him?

It seems more like the Conqueror rune is like the Rage rune and the Black rune is like a Fire rune. But, you're right Suikosource disagrees with me. Thanks for pointing that out. I just don't think it makes much sense.

Red Killey · Post by **Red Killey** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 9:32 am

Oppenheimer wrote:Still, if the conqueror rune is the same as the black rune then why doesn't Milich have control over Windy? See what I'm saying. If he has the conqueror rune, and so does Windy, why doesn't he have control over her, like she has over him?

Because it's obvious that Windy was the more powerful magician. Milich wasn't as powerful as Windy. Kwanda was even worse. Even Ted only managed to break away from her control due to Souleater Rune. So the magic skill of the bearer plays a part too, and Windy was definitely a very powerful magician.

demon eye · Post by **demon eye** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 9:34 am

The Conqueror Rune is actually a magical rune Windy uses through magic to possess the minds of the person who wears it. She probably has a special ward on the rune which makes her Conqueror Rune the master and the other subsequent ones the slaves.

I actually believe that Windy created the Conqueror Rune through magic and due to the fact that she is the creator of the magical rune she became known as its owner. I do not believe that Windy wore a Conqueror Rune at all. The Conqueror Rune is probably just the result of a binding spell Windy made and molded into the Conqueror Rune.

My Theory: The Conqueror Rune is most likely a false rune and a result of Windy's sorcery. But, most likely false...

Post by **Oppenheimer** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 9:41 am

Red Killey wrote:So the magic skill of the bearer plays a part too, and Windy was definitely a very powerful magician.

So the Conqueror runes link the minds of all the wearers together and the one with the strongest magical power controls all the other ones? I guess I can buy that. That's very risky on Windy's part to play with such a dangerous rune. She must have a lot of confidence in her abilities. I suppose it backfires on her too since Ted does get away from her.

Oh, and that would mean that I was also wrong about Ted not having a conqueror rune. I guess he does have one on him in Seek Valley as his mind is connected to Windy's at that point.

Siel Avadon · Post by **Siel Avadon** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 9:45 am

Remembers that its only a half of a true rune.