Balloon status + ejection research

If you are stuck in the Dunan Unification Wars; or wish for more details on the gameplay systems, this is the place.
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Julian
Posts: 73
Joined: Wed Jan 29, 2014 9:17 pm

Balloon status + ejection research

Post by Julian »

Figured I'd make a new thread for this since it's more research rather than a bug.

The game uses some sort of "weight" table to determine how many balloons are necessary to eject a character from battle.

Effectively, these are the weight ranges, and their ejection requirements:

0 to 1F: 1 balloon
20 to 3F: 2 balloons
40 to 5F: 3 balloons
60 to 7F: Immune (gets balloons but never ejects)

The game is actually doing an AND 0x60, then shifting right 5 times. So only those bits are being considered. The other bits in these numbers may have a different meaning. For example, it looks like a lot of male characters end in even, and females in odd, though it doesn't seem to always hold true.

Here is the weight table:

Code: Select all

0031 Abizboah	66
0032 Feather 66
0048 Sigfried 66
004A Rulodia 66
0015 Bolgan 53
002A Gadget 46
000A Humphrey 40
000D Pesmerga 40
0011 Tomo 34
0012 Nanami 34
0013 Eilie 34
0018 Millie 34
002B Ayda 34
0037 Nina 34
0053 Millie 34
0001 Suikoden 33
0009 Futch 33
0035 Luc 33
003B Koyu 33
003E Sasuke 33
0050 Jowy 33
0051 Jowy 33
0036 Chaco 27
0038 Sid 27
001A Shiro 26
001C Gengen 25
001D Gabocha 25
0040 Vincent 22
0041 Simone 22
0004 Viki 21
0008 Tengaar 21
000C Valeria 21
000E Lorelai 21
0014 Rina 21
0017 Hanna 21
0019 Karen 21
0027 Anita 21
002D Sierra 21
002E Oulan 21
0039 Yoshino 21
003C Lo Wen 21
0044 Wakaba 21
0049 Kasumi 21
0002 Flik 20
0003 Viktor 20
0005 Sheena 20
0006 Clive 20
0007 Hix 20
000B Georg 20
000F Shin 20
0010 Rikimaru 20
001B Zamza 20
001E Kinnison 20
001F Shilo 20
0020 Miklotov 20
0021 Camus 20
0022 Hauser 20
0023 Freed Y 20
0024 Kahn 20
0025 Amada 20
0026 Tai Ho 20
0028 Bob 20
002C Killey 20
002F Genshu 20
0033 Badeaux 20
0034 Tsai 20
003A Gijimu 20
003D Mazus 20
003F Mondo 20
0042 Hai Yo 20
0043 Stallion 20
0045 L.C.Chan 20
0046 Gantetsu 20
0047 Hoi 20
0052 McDohl 20
0029 Meg 14
0016 Tuta 13
0030 Mukumuku 6
004B Makumaku 6
004C Mikumiku 6
004D Mekumeku 6
004E Mokumoku 6
004F Chuchara 6
So basically, squirrels, Tuta, Meg, and Chuchara all need 1 balloon. Bolgan, Pesmerga, Humphrey, and Gadget need 3 balloons. Large sized monsters are immune. And everyone else needs 2. (How is Gantetsu not grouped in to the 3 group..?)

Table in the PSP version starts at 0x08A5DA87 (for index 0), and the value is every other byte. (so plus index * 2) Not sure what the inbetween byte is. So Hero (index 1) is at 0x08A5DA89, etc.

A couple odd/buggy things:

1. There is a status screen icon for 1 balloon, and another for 2 balloons. These overwrite the MP icon in the main status menu. (They also display in the actual status screen, near the MP, in the bottom left. Bottom row.)
There is no icon for 3 balloons - it just re-uses the 1 balloon icon.

2. Characters that fly away don't fly away very far. When the camera adjusts, you can see them floating right above your party. Here is the camera adjusting for the bunny axe throw.
Image
It looks even worse in the PSP version, their feet stick around at the top of the screen by default...
Image
Seems to have also happened in Suikoden 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ky5A1mU2etM&t=174s

Status guide https://www.suikosource.com/games/gs2/guides/status.php needs to be updated. :) (Also, balloons don't go away after battle, they persist.)
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Raww Le Klueze
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Re: Balloon status + ejection research

Post by Raww Le Klueze »

I remember discussions about there being some sort of "weight" mechanics involved, long, long ago.

But Balloon is so rare in Suikoden II though you essentially have to farm it to ever see more than one.
Doctorum Non Urina Singulus.
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Pyriel
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Re: Balloon status + ejection research

Post by Pyriel »

Seems like the easy way to think of it is that the bits indicate how many balloons can be tolerated/offset. The squirrels tolerate 0, so they're ejected immediately on getting the status. Large monsters can tolerate 3, so no amount the game allows can eject them.

I wouldn't be surprised if something in there is what determines "age" for the Greenhill infiltration. Although, I don't know if that's already been pinned down to some other location.
Julian
Posts: 73
Joined: Wed Jan 29, 2014 9:17 pm

Re: Balloon status + ejection research

Post by Julian »

Quite possibly. I plan on checking that out when I get a save there. Oulan event as well.

The lower 4 bits here seem to be driving the side of the bath in the castle. Generally, the last bit seems to indicate male or female. (0/even Female, 1/odd Male). There is a hardcoded check against the character ID before taking the lower 4 bits (AND 0xF), looks to be assigning an overwritten values for non-human/animal characters:

Male (0x1)
Mukumuku, Abizboah, Feather, Shiro, Makumaku, Mekumeku, Mokumoku
Female (0x0)
Siegfried, Gadget (???), Rulodia, Mikumiku, Chuchara

One additional thing I noticed is that Vincent and Simone stay on the male side, unless there are no females in your party, then they go to the other side. (..? Why?) I haven't bothered looking at the switch statement and what all it's doing, as I don't really care that much.

Also, it looks like bits 5 and 6 (0x60) also drive party size. Setting those two bits makes the character take up 2 slots in the party. (Unsetting one of them, also makes them take up a single slot, rather than 2. Although that would break their "balloon" immunity. (As if anyone cares about that?))
TheyCallMeStacy
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Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2016 1:50 pm

Re: Balloon status + ejection research

Post by TheyCallMeStacy »

Interesting hehe. Regarding age, I do know some character's ages with regards to being able to be used in Greenhill do not match with their actual storyline ages. I know Rina is only 18 in story but I don't think can be used, whereas characters older than her like Hix and Tengaar can.

And interesting regarding the sexes of non-human characters haha. It makes sense that even if Siegfried is male he would want to be with the women haha. And since Gadget is pretty much Meg's companion, it would want to be with her. But Chuchara is interesting - considering how it's parents are color coded it would be cool if it was supposed to be female all along.

And if I recall correctly Milich in Suikoden I also did displayed the same behavior regarding baths - I wonder if the male narcissists in subsequent games display the same behavior?
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