Harmonia and non-human races.

Jowy Atreides · Post by **Jowy Atreides** » Wed Jul 28, 2004 3:42 pm

For those of you who don't know, this is how it works in Harmonia:

First-class citizens: natives of Harmonia that always have blonde hair and blue eyes due to the strict marriage customs of Harmonia. They enjoy a wide array of privelages not available to second and third class citizens, and usually have some amount of power in politics.

Second-class citizens: people native to a nation that was approached by Harmonian aggression and decided to surrender immediately. They also enjoy a wide array of privelages, but some are only available to first-class citizens. For the most part, they are almost never part of the aristocracy.

Third-class citizens: People native to a nation that has resisted Harmonian rule. The children in these families are usually sent to serve First-class Harmonains in Crystal Valley.

The un-classed rank, sub-humans: The rank given to people who are not of the human race: Kobolds, elves, dwarves, possibly even naykobolds.

With that said, how does it work for Kobolds and other people classified by Harmonia as Sub-humans? If they try and enter Harmonia as a tourist, are they immediately seized and indoctrinated into Harmonian society? I know that Gau was working for the HSFDF, but that's mainly just for mercenaries. Also, are third class citizens considered disposable property like sub-humans are?

Ced The Lad · Post by **Ced The Lad** » Wed Jul 28, 2004 4:20 pm

I believe sub-humans are classified as third class citizens. With that in mind, I really don't think "sub-humans" would step foot near harmonia. I guess Mercs are different since they are protecting harmonia's borders after all.

But I do wonder what would happen if Harmonia tried to conquer a non-human nation and they'd surrender. What rank would they have then?

Jowy Atreides · Post by **Jowy Atreides** » Wed Jul 28, 2004 4:29 pm

Exactly. I just love how deep and interesting a country can seem when we've only been there a few times in Suikogaiden Volume Two and a couple of times in Suikoden Three. But, I know that Sub-humans get treated a lot worse than third-class citizens, so it doesn't quite fit that they're third-class citizens.

Kcirtap1990 · Post by **Kcirtap1990** » Wed Jul 28, 2004 5:23 pm

Ced The Lad wrote:I believe sub-humans are classified as third class citizens. With that in mind, I really don't think "sub-humans" would step foot near harmonia. I guess Mercs are different since they are protecting harmonia's borders after all.

But I do wonder what would happen if Harmonia tried to conquer a non-human nation and they'd surrender. What rank would they have then?

I would guess they would be most likely a 2.5 Class somewhere between Second and Third Class. I would bet less of slaves and extreme low class, where the best job they could get is a job of Third Class but with extremly low pay.

Post by **Vextor** » Wed Jul 28, 2004 7:20 pm

The "Sub-human" class is lower than third class within Harmonian society, that is because they are not even considered as citizens of Harmonia, and mere property used for labor.

Kcirtap1990 · Post by **Kcirtap1990** » Wed Jul 28, 2004 8:20 pm

SARSadmin wrote:The "Sub-human" class is lower than third class within Harmonian society, that is because they are not even considered as citizens of Harmonia, and mere property used for labor.

I guess that makes sense. Harmonia is one weird place. So I'm assuming Geddoe and the others except for Jacques are all concidered Second Class?

Post by **Vextor** » Wed Jul 28, 2004 8:45 pm

They're all outside the conventional rank structure. When a person enters the border guards, they become "exempt" from the social class rules. However, they are considered above third-class citizens in all situations. Otherwise, they are considered "outsiders."

RageRune · Post by **RageRune** » Fri Jul 30, 2004 5:23 pm

But I thoght Queen was a third class citizen since her homeland(Sanady) was conquered by Harmonia. Unless the Harmonian goverment gives them second class staus.

Post by **Vextor** » Fri Jul 30, 2004 5:32 pm

No one knows what Queen's old nation's status is--whether their citizens are 2nd or 3rd class citizens. However, if a 3rd class citizens joins the border guard (because they're good fighters), their status changes. That's why the border guards have a wide range of eclectic talent--and many of them are not Harmonians to begin with.

Sesshomaru · Post by **Sesshomaru** » Fri Jul 30, 2004 6:25 pm

SARS I rember on your site you put up a "Is Queen Jilla?" I read the whole thing MAN that convincing. Could it be true? or is all the info on the page fake.

Harmonia treets people like the romans did in their time. Are Woman in harmonia Citizens? does anyone know?

Post by **Vextor** » Fri Jul 30, 2004 7:09 pm

Women born in a 1st class Harmonian family are 1st class as well. Gender has no bearing on a person's class.

As far as the Queen = Jillia stuff goes, there are some other facts that can easily disprove it. For one thing, we don't know if Sanady is the same as Sanadia. Secondly, Queen seems to know hew homeland well, while Jillia won't share that sort of feeling.

KQswst104 · Post by **KQswst104** » Sat Jul 31, 2004 6:06 am

One thing I've been wondering is what do rank they consider non-Harmonians with blonde hair and blue eyes? Especially ones who are noble, like Borus.

Jowy Atreides · Post by **Jowy Atreides** » Sat Jul 31, 2004 6:14 am

I don't think people outside of Harmonia have a rank inside Harmonia, unless of course they are originally from there. It's sort of like if someone came to visit the United States, we'd consider them tourists, not really a rank or anything like that. I highly doubt they have ranks for non-Harmonians as well, there'd really be no point.

Post by **Vextor** » Sat Jul 31, 2004 12:48 pm

Exactly, foreigners have no rank--they're outside Harmonia's social system. However, when foreigners become integrated into Harmonian society, they typically become 2nd class citizens. 1st class is resevred for "pure harmonians."

RageRune · Post by **RageRune** » Sat Jul 31, 2004 3:49 pm

I got another question. Is it possible for native Harmonians to have dark hair and dark eyes. Or is that considered "unpure" in Harmonia?