Not very satisfied with the story/scenario

Futch02 · Post by **Futch02** » Sat Nov 12, 2005 7:02 pm

Angelis_Taleria wrote:Off topic, but, Tir has lines in S2.

Also, Lazlo does talk a lot for someone who used to be so silent.

Tir really doesn't talk much at all. The only time he really speaks is if bring him with you into Greenhill. If you do, he'll be the one to prevent you from trying to leave.

I haven't met Lazlo further into the game, so I don't know if him speaking more is, in fact, accurate. It may have to do with the fact that he'll be compatible with a whole lot of people in this game, seeing as he's connected to the largest number of recruits >.< Also, plot-wise, the reason Lazlo may be more outspoken may have to do with his time away from Snowe. Keep in mind, when they were kids, Snowe pretty much kept cutting him off and speaking for him. >.<

Angelis_Taleria · Post by **Angelis_Taleria** » Sat Nov 12, 2005 7:06 pm

The place I think you are referring to is Tinto, not Greenhill, and he also speaks in the last dungeon and I believe there is one other place that escapes my mind at the moment, but I digress.

Lazlo speaks quite a bit, much to my surprise. In each of the conversations that involve him he seems to be the dominant speaker. I doubt his outspokeness has anything to do with his time away from Snowe, I simply think it's a part of his character. One part that we didn't see in Suikoden IV simply due to the fact that Suikoden traditionally has silent heros.

When you do get him, you'll see. He's quite the talker and one heck of a juggernaut in battle.

Futch02 · Post by **Futch02** » Sat Nov 12, 2005 7:15 pm

Angelis_Taleria wrote: One part that we didn't see in Suikoden IV simply due to the fact that Suikoden traditionally has silent heros.

Yes, tinto. Sorry, my bad.

And actually, Riou was quite the little chatter box...

Edit: Also, speaking as the youngest of three girls in my family, no you don't often talk much when others keep cutting you off and speak for you. But once I shook my sisters off, boy, did I learn to voice my oppinions, and now there's no shutting me up

So, through my experience, I honestly think his lack of vocilization in the fourth game is strongly based on Snowe >.<

Jowy Atreides · Post by **Jowy Atreides** » Sat Nov 12, 2005 7:49 pm

A large portion of Suikoden IV had Lazlo without Snowe, and yet he wasn't very talkative then. Keep in mind that all of the heroes have always had lines, but since they are almost always chosen by the player, it feels as though they aren't saying anything.

I'm not sure why the Japanese aren't very satisfied with the plot. It seems very good to me, especially with characters from the Nest of Pirates, Lazlo, Snowe, Lino, the new dudes, et cetera.

Futch02 · Post by **Futch02** » Sat Nov 12, 2005 8:20 pm

Jowy Atreides wrote:A large portion of Suikoden IV had Lazlo without Snowe, and yet he wasn't very talkative then. Keep in mind that all of the heroes have always had lines, but since they are almost always chosen by the player, it feels as though they aren't saying anything.

LoL, something tells me you people didn't have overbearing siblings. You know how long it takes to get broken out of that habit? My theory with Snowe is based on simple psychology, nothing more.

And I don't think you can lump all the Suikoden heros together just because they were the tenkai star. They all had personalities of their own, and reacted differently over the course of the games, even if you got to pick their reactions. For example, both Tir and Lazlo were the silent types, but while Tir's seemed to stem from some sort of "seriousness", Lazlo appeared to be almost wounded into silence. At least, that's how I view it. Maybe it has to do with my love of pure angst >.<

Post by **Oppenheimer** » Mon Jan 16, 2006 11:27 pm

I thought the scenerio was fine. Not as deep as Suikoden II or III. It is on par with I in my opinion, better than IV of course. I found some of the plot revelations to be a bit abrupt, such as Yohn in the ending. It's sort of like you're just wandering around and occationally stuff happens. Not much driving you to the end, except to destroy the rune cannons. But, the ending was very interesting. I think the length was sufficent. If they made it go much longer it would have seemed too stretched out. Unless they added some more characters or a plot twist or something, or let you into SME. That could make it longer but otherwise I think they had enough padding as it was and was glad to get to the end when I did.

Angelis_Taleria · Post by **Angelis_Taleria** » Mon Jan 16, 2006 11:36 pm

The only thing I think most people had a problem with was Yohn. I bet if she had a part in battle most people wouldn't have forgot about her, heh. I didn't mind, but, a friend of mine didn't exactly like her silence or her uninvolvement, but his opinion matters as much to me as Canada does to Mexicans. They aren't going to swim then hitchhike.

Post by **Oppenheimer** » Mon Jan 16, 2006 11:41 pm

Yes, Yohn should have been support character or something. She'd do something magical but not sure what, maybe restore rune power? but that'd be pretty useless since most people just level up and get all their spells back anyway.

Angelis_Taleria · Post by **Angelis_Taleria** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 12:25 am

Perhaps drain HP via some spell that affects the soul given her natural ability.

Raftrider · Post by **Raftrider** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 2:31 pm

I was waiting for a thread like this!

I liked Suikoden Tactics, but I felt that the story was too short and really wished that the game had gone into more depth with certain character relationships. I felt like I was wandering around kicking ass for a long time, and then a scene would suddenly happen, or I was still in the first legs of the journey, when in reality I was already at the end. I hoped for a more developed relationship between Andarc and Seneca as well as an explanation about Lazlo's mother, and Kika (those of you that have beaten Suikoden IV know what Iâ€™m referring to). I see that some of you have mentioned quests. The only ones I've done are some with Lalacle. If there's more story to be told going on these extra quests, kindly point the relevant ones in my direction.

Post by **Oppenheimer** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 2:37 pm

I agree that Kika was all mourning over her lost love and then suddenly disappeared from the story. They really could have used her more. The only people on your team who really got character development were Heinz, Coop, Corcelia, Kyril and Walter. Although the NPCs that never join are pretty well developed for enemies, relatively speaking. This is all excluding camp scenes as I got very few of those (I mostly got that "walking into the campground and sitting down" scene over and over).

Edit: I've been thinking it over and I think that Rest scenes should have been worked into the plot and not been optional. This would have fleshed out the length of the game and it also would have made sure we all got character development. Or at the least these scenes should have happened on any day not just a paticular element so I could get them. What am I supposed to do? rest 7 times in a row every time I get a new character to check if they're in a rest scene on any paticular elemental day?

Post by **patapi** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 7:37 pm

I thought making character development optional, especially for the non-plot ones was a sound decision. This way, players would have the option to skip these scenes, especially during replays. (Story is too short, but the scenes are too long... what?)

However, I must agree that they should have had a better system for triggering Rest scenes. Instead of allowing you to access the menu item at anytime (and wasting a day in the process, if nothing happens), perhaps enabling the "Rest" option only when a new scene is available, much like how the "Talk" option works in battle.

Case in point: The development of Andarc and Seneca mostly take place in their optional Talk and Rest scenes together. Ignoring these, well, it's no surprise that it felt like they were nothing more than throwaway characters in the story.

Angelis_Taleria · Post by **Angelis_Taleria** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 8:49 pm

Hmm, yeah, it also takes a bit of time to get most of the talk scenes for most characters. It seems that each talk is triggered by a certain number of turns in battle rather than the number of battles. Basically, if you were to play through from beginning to end without doing anything optional, there's a huge chance you would be missing a fraction of the story.

son_michael · Post by **son_michael** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 9:06 pm

ill jump on the bandwagon here, I also hate the way the rest scenes were done...sure they can be funny and informative but considering how LONG it takes to figure out how to get them...its deffinetley a hassle, I agree with patapi, they should have deffintley developed the characters in the main story, or at least make the rest scenes easier and less frustrating to figure out

Post by **patapi** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 9:37 pm

Well, I'm somewhat biased about the "waiting" bit to unlock Talk scenes. I've gotten used to Fire Emblem's support convo system, so the waiting bit was quite natural. (However, FE games are much longer and have much larger maps, so.)

I see them as rewards for those who actually do the optional stuffs. For those who prefer to rush their games, it makes sense that they'd only want to view the necessary story scenes and nothing else, no?