Yuber/Pesmerga: the only good question

demon eye · Post by **demon eye** » Mon Oct 24, 2005 8:46 pm

Pesmerga only wants destruction, as well, meaning that Pesmerga only desires to find and destroy Yuber.

Dooz · Post by **Dooz** » Sun Oct 30, 2005 9:12 pm

darkness knight wrote:let us hope pesmerga wins, altough i dont know what pesmerga wants he only seems to follow yuber, but yuber only wants destruction.........O_O

Let's hope Yuber wins, because destruction is more fun and a little less cliche.

executor of balance · Wed Nov 02, 2005 10:31 am

If Yuber and Pesmerga truly represent order and chaos I think their battle will never end, because chaos cannot exist without order and vice versa.

But if you look at what yuber did in the suikoden games, like summoning beast, teleporting, and participating as a strong unit in major battles, you tend to think he outclasses Pesmerga, who for some reason never used that kind of powers in the games. He must have a good reason not to.

Jowy Atreides · Post by **Jowy Atreides** » Wed Nov 02, 2005 7:47 pm

I'm not sure why Pesmerga doesn't use whatever powers he has, but in the novelization of Suikoden I Pesmerga was able to see through Yuber's trickery and attack him, causing Yuber to retreat. Using that as justification, I wouldn't say that Yuber is better than Pesmerga.

DEATHEATER123 · Post by **DEATHEATER123** » Fri Nov 04, 2005 2:51 pm

Hi i'm DEATHEATER

I have played suikoden 1,2,4 and to me juba is much stronger than persmega

I think juba is a copy of persemega but much stronger,even though every time persemega goes after juba flees like a wimp.

son_michael · Post by **son_michael** » Fri Nov 04, 2005 4:08 pm

...jUBA?

lol, and I thought pesmerga was the only 1 who gets his name pronounced wrong....

ShardStar · Post by **ShardStar** » Fri Nov 04, 2005 4:58 pm

Honestly I don't think either should win, that Pes and Yuber represent the struggle between Choas/Order. That's what Luc showed us in s3, that should Choas be eliminated and the world ruled through pure Order, that everything would grow stagnate and die. While with Chaos of war, people fight to survive and grow stronger, to live. Also to change and adapt while still maintaing some balace of Order so that Chaos doesn't just sweep everything from the land.

Pes and Yuber are not human and I can't say what they are, Demons? Spirits? Gods? Perhaps they are extenstions of Order and Chaos, living embodiement of those two opposing forces. We have alot of Duality in Suikoden I think, like with the White Sheild and Black Sword.

I think the Yuber/Pesmerga fight will be one of those unanswerable mystries for this series. Even if one of them did die, perhaps another would arise to contest that winner to maintain and keep the balance. That Balance is what Luc was threatening to destroy in s3, Yuber was all for that. The fact that we don't know were Pesemerga is in s3, if he is even still alive for that matter. Doesn't bode well for Pes since he was determined to find Yuber where he went.

Jowy Atreides · Post by **Jowy Atreides** » Sat Nov 05, 2005 5:58 pm

Murayama has said that their story cannot end until the final Suikoden, so Pesmerga definitely isn't dead. Kawano has also recently said that they will be saving Yuber and Pesmerga until the latter parts of the series.

Gandalf · Post by **Gandalf** » Sat Nov 05, 2005 6:26 pm

I don't think that Yuber is that strong, because you can beat him in s3 in the cave that goes to the tower o the lizards(don't remember both names), and i think that pes and yuber are not demons, spirits, neither gods(lol), i think they are some kind of "angels" sent by the gods to estabilish some kind of thing in the world...dunno[/spoiler]

Gandalf · Post by **Gandalf** » Sat Nov 05, 2005 6:27 pm

and uh...sorry for double posting but i forgot something...in the series i don't even see yuber even talking about pesmerga...like he don't know about him at all...

Edit by Oppeneheimer: There's an edit button to change posts if you forgot something, just write "Edit:" before the addition.

bloggs24 · Post by **bloggs24** » Wed Dec 14, 2005 4:45 am

Jowy Atreides wrote:Murayama has said that their story cannot end until the final Suikoden, so Pesmerga definitely isn't dead. Kawano has also recently said that they will be saving Yuber and Pesmerga until the latter parts of the series.

that doesnt mean that pesmerga isnt dead in 3, what if the last suikoden for sum stupid reason, is set between 2 and 3, seeing as the suikoden series goes through major events that have occured in the past aswell, maybe sumthing happenend between 2 and 3 where pesmerga found yuber and was killed, but that is really unlikely, i think neither of them will win, and neither of them will die, i say think they'll get warped into purgatory - for those who dont know what purgatory is:
'The place where the souls of dead people were supposed to go in order to suffer before being allowed into Heaven.'
'The place between earth and Heaven, "Heaven's waiting room."'

i like the idea that no 1 can defeat pesmerga and yuber, besides each other. That would be an all right reason why pesmerga is chasing him, he think its hes duty to rid the world of such a being and has become paranoid over it. all i know is that i want there to be a 1 on 1 duel between em, and a FMV, kinda like the fight scenes with sephiroth in advent children, thats what i want. also although id rather what i said near the top to happen, if 1 had to win, and the otehr die, id prefer pesmerga put his sword through yuber and i want yuber to have his S2 armour back on, and i dont want the character designers to change the look of the armour, because its already awsome

EDIT:: added a little extra comments

Wraith · Post by **Wraith** » Wed Dec 14, 2005 4:36 pm

I think theirs a really, really big secret about Pesmerga and Yuber. I'm not talking about a game plot twist. I'm talking about a historical plot twist! I have a theorie... but tis a bit strange. I can either post it here or on a different thread. Since its a theorie I'd better put it in the theorie section.

Post by **KFCrispy** » Wed Dec 14, 2005 5:25 pm

ShardStar wrote:Honestly I don't think either should win, that Pes and Yuber represent the struggle between Choas/Order. That's what Luc showed us in s3, that should Choas be eliminated and the world ruled through pure Order, that everything would grow stagnate and die. While with Chaos of war, people fight to survive and grow stronger, to live. Also to change and adapt while still maintaing some balace of Order so that Chaos doesn't just sweep everything from the land.

Yes, Suikoden 3 is the only game that really hints to anything regarding the end of the Suikoden world, which presumably will be the end of the Suikoden series, which is expected to conclude Pes/Yuber. so yeah, there are many implied connections. Yuber is supposed to represent Chaos, which implies Pesmerga is related to Order. That implies that is Pesmerga destroys Yuber, order will permanently take over the Suiko-world and we'll see the stagnant world Luc shows to the Flame Champion. I believe this is a 'bad' result. But you'd probably agree extreme chaos is also considered a 'bad' result. the SoDs of Suikoden III wanted to maintain the balance.

However, balance isn't always the key theme. Suikoden II presented the battle between the Sword and Shield, which definitely represent Chaos and Order, respectively. in this game, Chaos wins and we are left with an unstable region where some areas eventually split off and fight other wars. In the world Riou created, order takes place on a voluntary level, which isn't too shabby.

If anything, the idea of Chaos and freedom are linked by the storytellers and Order works with stagnation and an 'iron fist' rule rather than Jowy's ultimate goal/dream of keeping everyone safe. So if anything, if Yuber represents Chaos, he has the upper hand in our idealism.

But Pesmerga representing Order has an upperhand with Fate--as told by the True Wind Rune. My question is did Luc present one of many possible scenarios or was that vision the ONLY outcome he saw? we'd have to revisit the end text of Suikoden III....

anyway, i think either one winning would have be an interesting way to end the Suikoseries; coming to a draw would be kind of the same ol same ol keeping the peace/balance yada yada crap. it's already great how we are more supportive of Chaos than Order yet we've been hating on Yuber and beating him up all this time plus he has a very dislikable personality, and then we have Pesmerga who we supported in Suikoden 1 cuz he was a star that rivaled Yuber, but if he wins, the world may end up a dark, stale place.

demon eye · Post by **demon eye** » Thu Dec 15, 2005 1:23 am

I believe even Luc mentions that the vision given to him by the True Wind Rune was only one of many possible outcomes. Also, Leknaat tells him he cannot fight his fate by going against his own destiny. So, there is implications of many possible visions and various outcomes which will present various ways for he plot to proceed.

Hitsugaya · Post by **Hitsugaya** » Tue Jan 31, 2006 6:32 am

ermmm...Does Suikoden 4 leave ay slightest about the two pf them? I played the game but dun seem to find any clue..only rumour I heard abt is Troy has conections wif Yuber...