thunder rune piece

[Julian]

This formula applies to both player and enemy, as far as I can tell.

Damage = ATK-DEF
If Damage < 10: Damage += (1 - rand(4))
Example: Damage=5: 5 += (1 - [0..3]), range of 3-6. Damage < 10 just adds a range of -2 to +1.
If Damage >= 10: Damage += ((Damage/2 - Rand(Damage) / 5)
Example: Damage=100: 100 += ((50 - [0..99]) / 5), giving a range of 90-110, so basically +/- 10%

If target is a party member and used defend:
Damage = Damage / 2

If attacker is a party member:
If target is weak to rune piece element* embedded in your weapon: Damage = Damage * 1.5

If rune piece is fire or wind**: Damage = Damage * (1+(.05*number of pieces))
(Straight 5% for one piece, 10% for two, 15% for three, etc. I suck at writing formulas.)

If final damage is lower than 0, its set to 1.

*wind does earth damage, earth does wind damage
**the incorrectly labeled wind that does earth damage

Edit: Critical is set elsewhere, it's 3x as stated.

For unites, it looks like it just runs the above formula for each character in the unite, sums the values, and then multiplies by the multiplier. (x2, x1.5, etc.)

Like magic, each unite has a set of functions that does graphical stuff, and also calculates damage. They all seem to call some shared functions to calculate damage for multiple characters, but, it's possible some unites are using a different formula or function to calculate damage. Those would all need to be checked one by one.

[like2h]

Great! So randomness only applies in the (atk-def) calculation.

A small typo:

((Damage/2 - Rand(Damage)*)/ 5)

Does the game floor the damage twice when calculating normal physical damage?

First when computing atk-def+randomness.

And second after applying all multipliers (x1.05, x1.5 etc.).

[like2h]

How about magic damage?

For party member magic damage:

Damage = (base spell damage + [MAG/2]) * element_modifier

element_modifier:

Strong=0.5

Weak=2

Normal=1

Invulnerable=0

Could enemy magic damage be calculated like?:

Damage = (base spell damage + enemyMAG - partyMAG) * element_modifier

element_modifier:

Same element as the rune equipped=0.5, otherwise=1. For soul eater=0.5

Edit1: After a quick check with the Zombie Dragon, it seems enemies just use MAG without a base spell damage value, and there is randomness involved.
The randomness may be the same old (0.9,1.1).

Edit2: Checked with the Dragon. It has two magic attacks: an all-target attack dealing half damage and a single-target attack dealing damage as calculated.

[like2h]

So haze rune = +50% evasion (lowers enemy hit rate by 50%)

I found a small bug. If pointed out, it should not be difficult to notice that 'lowers enemy hit rate by 50%' doesn't mean 'raises evasion by 50%.' For example, if the enemy's hit rate is 80%, then 1-80% equals 20%, and 1-40% equals 60%. More generally, (1 - hit/2) / (1 - hit) is not a constant.

[like2h]

Enemies can't counter attack

I am just replaying the game. I feel maybe it is like that some enemies can counter attack and some can't, since double-beat rune's effect is "allows the user to attack two different targets per turn (only if there is more than one enemy in the battle), but any counter-damage received is doubled."

Edit: s,m-range human enemies can counter attack, while the others can't?

[wataru14]

So, does the Double-Beat Rune's second ability mean you take double damaged if counterattacked? Or that you deal double damage when you counter?
If most enemies can't counter (I've only seen soldiers and ninjas do it), it's not really much of a drawback.

[like2h]

The Double-Beat Rune has two drawbacks:
1. Takes double damage if counterattacked.
2. Attacks two different targets(if there is only one target, it just attacks once), which makes it useless in boss battles.
Additionally, x2 is generally weaker than the x3 effects of the Hate Rune and Falcon Rune.

[like2h]

I am playing the PSP version. I found it unnecessary to equip McDohl with toe shoes in order to recruit Mina. Has anyone had the same experience? It's not a big problem though. Just write it down to remember.

[Julian]

This code starts getting really messy and difficult to read pretty fast.

Looking at the player attacking enemy routine (was looking at monster attacking player for player counter stuff), it looks like if you miss (and various flags are checked), the enemy has a 100% rate of countering? I am also not seeing a check for double beat rune to double the damage.

I went into battle against some Master Ninjas outside Gregminster and messed with Tir's stats.
Tir:
Strength = 51
Skill = 0
Phys Def = 200
SPD = 255
ATK = 209, DEF = 278

Ninja: Attack 330, Skill 140,

Ninja attacks Tir => 75 damage
330-278 = 52
My rand() gave me - 2 damage, damage = 50
... so this function is called by the various enemy AI functions. It looks like Master Ninja has a 1.5x damage multiplier on his attacks.
So final damage => 50 * 1.5 = 75

Tir attacks and misses Ninja, Ninja counters => 47 damage
330-278 = 52
My rand() gave me - 5 damage, damage = 47

I swap Tir's rune to Double Beat. Counter still does 47 damage. Tir attacks twice.

Summary of Findings:
Enemies that can counter, counter 100% if you miss
Enemies with multiplied damage in their AI doesn't apply to counter damage, since counters are done globally and they didn't put in a way to add multipliers
There is no check for double beat in the enemy counter code

Funny that with a double beat rune, the ninja's counters are weaker than their regular attacks, lol

edit: Looking at Mangosh/Main Gauche, in the game its stats just say "DEF+12, Boosts chance of counter attack" or something similar, don't have a US version handy, but JP says
防　＋１２
突き返し＋

Suikosource also lists it as Skill + 20. I think the "improve counter rate" is just some dumb flavor text for it. Skill + 20 means you dodge move, meaning you counter more. I guess?

edit2: Double Beat in JP says "２回攻撃". No mention of counter attack? Did the PS1 localization mention anything? If not, where did every single website and wiki get the idea that it does..? (Outside of it doing that in 2, but 2 came out after 1...)

[wataru14]

I am playing the PSP version. I found it unnecessary to equip McDohl with toe shoes in order to recruit Mina. Has anyone had the same experience? It's not a big problem though. Just write it down to remember.

From what I've seen, as long as anyone in the party has Toe Shoes, you can recruit Mina. It doesn't have to be Tir.
And since they're the best accessory besides Wing Boots you can have at that point, odds are somebody in the party will have them on.

[like2h]

From what I've seen, as long as anyone in the party has Toe Shoes, you can recruit Mina. It doesn't have to be Tir.
And since they're the best accessory besides Wing Boots you can have at that point, odds are somebody in the party will have them on.

Confirmed. Yep, that's right.

[like2h]

Summary of Findings:
Enemies that can counter, counter 100% if you miss
Enemies with multiplied damage in their AI doesn't apply to counter damage, since counters are done globally and they didn't put in a way to add multipliers
There is no check for double beat in the enemy counter code

Interesting finds! I did some tests in
Pannu Yakuta Castle with those soldiers. "Enemies that can counter, counter 100% if you miss" seems true. As to the double beat rune, I will check it out when I get one.

[Raww Le Klueze]

(Outside of it doing that in 2, but 2 came out after 1...)

To be fair, most in-depth guides were written long after both games were out so there's probably some cross-contamination going on and assumptions based on what it does in S2.

[like2h]

Status 0x10, I assume Bucket? Divide Hit Rate by 2 (this check isn't differentiating player or enemy, but I don't think we have a way to apply bucket to an enemy?)

I wondered if it might be Fog of Deception, the level 2 magic of the water rune. Even though the description mentions raising allies' evade percentage, my guess from the animation is that it actually reduces enemies' hit rate. Unfortunately, there's no visual indicator for enemies' status effects, similar to Wind of Sleep, the level 1 magic of the wind rune.

I suppose both magics have a success rate, and it seems like their effects last for 1-3 turns.

[Raww Le Klueze]

Fog of Deception is supposed to lower enemies hit rate by 20% not half.

Though importantly it doesn't actually do anything because all buff/debuff spells are bugged because they apply the effect to a value that will always be 0.