Testing Damage Mechanics

[Julian]

Hahahahahaha.

I finally figured it out.

I set a breakpoint on "calculate damage" function, set my party to auto. 1 attacks 7. 3 attacks 7. 4 attacks 7... etc. Then the crystal core attacks and I go... 7 atta--wait, 2 attacks 7?

They called calculate damage backwards. The signature looks something like calculate_damage(attacker_id, defender_id), and in the crystal core AI they called it as calculate_damage(target_party_member_id, crystal_core_id).

So it's calculating damage using the target character's ATK vs the core's DEF. And that's why defend does nothing - it's checking if the core is defending. (it's not.)

[wataru14]

That's a wild bug. So the attack is physical, but uses the defender's attack vs the Core's defense?

[Julian]

Yup. All checks that would go on either the attacker or defender is swapped.

[wataru14]

Finished the game.

- Rabbit Birds will sometimes do nothing and take no action. Holly Spirits/Fairies will sometimes do the same. Possibly using the Defend command? Not sure if other enemies will do that, as well. They're the only ones I noticed doing it.
- Earth Golem is Earth magic, as expected.
- Ninja and Ninja Masters both do x1 damage with Shuriken and x1.5 with sword. Sword strikes can add Silence.
- Magus in Moravia uses Holy magic, just like the Sorcerer.
- Siren is the same as the Dana Region one. They can add stun with their darts, though. Not sure if the earlier versions can. Will test more.
- Shell Venus uses Lightning magic
- Sonya uses Water magic
- Ain Gide uses Fire magic
- Ekidonna uses Wind magic and her physical attack can add a random status: I've seen Bucket, Balloon, and Stun. It can also add more than one on a single hit.
- Colossus' spark attack is physical
- Phantom is long range.

Golden Hydra
- All three heads have that special attack I always called "The Cocoa Puff Attack." It is physical and can hit the back row. Flik would have taken 270 damage if it was physical and 326 if it was magic. While defending he took 141. Tir took 312 while attacking. If it was magic, his Rune would have halved it.
- Left head uses Fire magic.
- Middle head uses Lightning magic.
- Right head has a heal spell that can revive destroyed heads. It doesn't seem to have any attack other than the Cocoa Puff one.
- If all three heads are alive, they can combine for a typeless magic attack that hits everyone. Not sure which head's Magic stat is used to calculate damage.

[TheyCallMeStacy]

Nice finds again, thanks for doing this in depth!

Was wondering if you noticed any difference in damage when a monster like beast commander, holly spirit, and whip wolf/master use command to tell other monsters to attack, vs just them attacking regularly. I know it lets them move immediately (sort of like the spark rune), but other than that it seems like a pretty non threatening move otherwise.

And yeah, about those monsters not doing anything, wonder if it is a bug. It wouldn't be like the Suikoden 2 bug though, where those monsters don't do anything at all. Here they do, just sometimes they don't.

And yeah, despite its animation, the hydra head's compression attack definitely is physical. Since it can hit back row, the mage type characters are particularly vulnerable to it. I believe this is the only boss physical attack that can hit the back row in the game.

[Julian]

It looks like the triple head attack is hardcoded to use the first target's MAG stat. (the first one on the list, whichever that is)

edit: Checked the Holly Spirit AI - it looks like it rolls a 50% rand against your entire front row, starting from positions 1 thru 3. If it misses that 50% all 3 times I guess it does nothing? Not 100% sure but that looks to be what is happening.

[wataru14]

Nice finds again, thanks for doing this in depth!

Was wondering if you noticed any difference in damage when a monster like beast commander, holly spirit, and whip wolf/master use command to tell other monsters to attack, vs just them attacking regularly. I know it lets them move immediately (sort of like the spark rune), but other than that it seems like a pretty non threatening move otherwise.

I didn't notice, but it's easily checkable. The danger of it is mostly in Moravia, where Whip Masters are super fast and have large entourages. They can make pets in the back row with them hit your back row when they incite. That can be threatening if you've got squishy casters back there.

And yeah, despite its animation, the hydra head's compression attack definitely is physical. Since it can hit back row, the mage type characters are particularly vulnerable to it. I believe this is the only boss physical attack that can hit the back row in the game.

Sydonia has a long-range attack that he hardly ever uses. But other than that, you're right.

[like2h]

I was too obsessed with S2 to notice this thread.
Really nice to know you figured out the Crystal Core mystery!

[TheyCallMeStacy]

And dang, should have asked as you were testing, but did you notice any oddities regarding attack range and dodgability or such? Based off my own observations, Neclord's physical attack and the Hydra's compression attack can never be evaded. I have never seen the Crystal Core's physical attack be evaded as well, but I think it may be possible.

And in general, while I have seen characters dodge the Zombie Dragon and Gigantes's physical attacks, I am not sure if it is possible for characters to counter those bosses. I haven't seen Sonya or Ain Gide be countered either, but I imagine it's possible, since they are human.

[wataru14]

I don't think those special attacks can be dodged. I've never seen it happen, at least.

[TheyCallMeStacy]

Thanks, if you didn't see any dodges during all the testing you did, I'll bet they indeed cannot be evaded. I am sure this also means that characters cannot intercept these attacks to protect other characters due to phero rune or character relationships. Haha not too important, but might be nice to know for a speedrun or challenge run.

[Julian]

You can only evade (and therefore counter) attacks done through the normal attack code. Basically, if there's any AI to it, the answer is probably no.