Why did the Imperials STEAL the dwarf plans?

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sticky-runes
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Why did the Imperials STEAL the dwarf plans?

Postby sticky-runes » Fri Sep 22, 2017 5:26 am

Something that's not quite explained in Suikoden 1, and I know I'm looking too deeply into it, so just humor me.

But why did the Imperials steal the plans for the Burning Mirror, instead of simply buying them?

The Liberation Army, small as they were at the time, managed to scrape together enough cash to buy the plans for the Fire Spears. So surely a fully funded army could have just bought the Burning Mirror plans no problem.

And the Imperials likely would have paid Kage a substantial sum to steal the plans any way.

Do you suppose it's because the Imperials didn't want to be seen doing business with the dwarves, so they had the plans stolen so that Kwanda could take credit for designing the Burning Mirror himself, or something like that?

Ultimately it's the fact that the Imperials stole from the dwarves that prompted the chief into taking action and destroying the Burning Mirror any way. the dwarves don't seem too bothered about who uses their weapons for which purpose, as long as crimes aren't committed against the dwarves themselves.

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Re: Why did the Imperials STEAL the dwarf plans?

Postby Wolkendrache » Fri Sep 22, 2017 4:45 pm

I guess they knew the dwarves wouldn’t sell it to them. Selling a weapon that can burn forests (aka anti-elves weapon) to the human general living a mirror-shot away from the village of the elves… that’s different to selling fire spears (aka anti-cavalry = anti-humans) to humans not active in the Great Forest. I’ve read something about a contract between the races living in the region. My question would be: why did they invent it in the first place?

However, if I was an elf, I’d create my own conspiracy theory: At the end of the turmoil, only the elves lost their home, by a dwarven weapon. The dwarves were celebrated as heroes after destroying it with the firewind cannon, but why took the preparation so long? Why did they begin preparations only after Tir came back with that damn root, why not immediately after learning that the burning mirror blueprints were stolen? And when they arrived after destroying the mirror, why did their chief say “looks like we got here in time” instead of “sorry for being too late”?
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sticky-runes
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Re: Why did the Imperials STEAL the dwarf plans?

Postby sticky-runes » Fri Sep 22, 2017 5:12 pm

Well a device that can burn an entire forest in an instant doesn't necessarily need to be used as a weapon of war, the dwarves might have used it to clear forestry off of mountains to make it easier for mining or something (didn't the Wingers leave Tinto because the forests over there were being cleared for strip mines?) this could also explain why the elves and dwarves don't get along because the elves are nature lovers while the dwarves are skilled at crafting devices that are used to change the landscape.

Also, the dwarf chief isn't exactly sympathetic towards elves in the first place. When we tell him that Kwanda is planning to burn the elves, he laughs and says "I hope they are killed!" this could be a sarcastic response because he didn't believe that humans could possibly break into the vault. But then, he was also sarcastic when Kirkis asked for his help and he said "An elf asking a lowly dwarf for a favor?"
The chief of the dwarves only really picks a side in the war after finding out that the Burning Mirror blueprints were in fact stolen. To me it seemed like he used the Firewind Cannon to punish Kwanda for stealing, rather than as punishment for hurting the elves.

What really sucks is that the chief sent us into that dungeon to prove that non-dwarves are capable of stealing from a dwarven vault. The dwarves could have simply checked to so if the Burning Mirror plans were there or not.

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Re: Why did the Imperials STEAL the dwarf plans?

Postby Falcon Fencer » Mon Oct 30, 2017 8:46 pm

Dwarves don't like outsider races including their neighbours so to me it seems pretty likely that they'd never sell such a weapon plan to the Empire so it would definitely need to be stolen whilst using the Dwarves own arrogance over the fact they don't believe a slow human could possible break into their impenetrable vault.

As said above, why would you sell a nation something they could just turn and use on you? The Dwarves seem very isolated in the game suggesting they keep to themselves (you never see a dwarf outside the dwarven lands even the npc enemies are limited to the pass and the area. So I don't think this needs much debate personally, Dwarves aren't going to hand over their treasures to strangers/outsiders.

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Re: Why did the Imperials STEAL the dwarf plans?

Postby sticky-runes » Tue Oct 31, 2017 5:03 am

Falcon Fencer wrote:So I don't think this needs much debate personally, Dwarves aren't going to hand over their treasures to strangers/outsiders.

But the dwarves did sell weapon plans to the Liberation Army, who were outsiders.

I suppose the Burning Mirror was far more devastating than the fire spears, so it could simply be that the dwarves don't sell all of their devices, and the Burning Mirror was never up for marketing.

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Re: Why did the Imperials STEAL the dwarf plans?

Postby Falcon Fencer » Tue Oct 31, 2017 8:11 pm

sticky-runes wrote:
Falcon Fencer wrote:So I don't think this needs much debate personally, Dwarves aren't going to hand over their treasures to strangers/outsiders.

But the dwarves did sell weapon plans to the Liberation Army, who were outsiders.

I suppose the Burning Mirror was far more devastating than the fire spears, so it could simply be that the dwarves don't sell all of their devices, and the Burning Mirror was never up for marketing.


Ah yes that is very true, perhaps a more valued/destructive treasure or maybe the a bit of a negative view of the mighty Empire, the Liberation Army are also the less likely to direct hostility towards the dwarves being the "good guys" and all. Can imagine the mirror and canon are two things they'd want to keep to themselves.


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