Camille

Hypotheses for, and analyses of, the various Suikoden characters.
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sticky-runes
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Camille

Postby sticky-runes » Sat Oct 21, 2017 3:44 pm

I've been thinking about how her attitude changes throughout events in Suikoden 1.

When we first meet her she's kind of a bratty bounty hunter who is determined to get Gremio to pay back his debt. She joins us because she's hoping to eventually get paid, and her standard dialogue in the HQ is "when are you planning on paying me back that money you owe?" But when Gremio dies saving you in Soniere Prison, she officially quits being a debt collector. She meets you outside your room and demands that you do your utmost to protect the life that Gremio gave to you and not let his death be in vain. And if you choose to kill Millich to avenge Gremio, it is Camille who strikes the killing blow. And her standard dialogue changes to "due to the circumstances, I'll be sticking with you until the end" and she ends up becoming a general for the Toran Republic army.

So why this change of heart? Was it simply because she failed to collect Gremio's debt, or was she deeply moved by how Gremio always put your life before everything else? Why does she become the executioner if you choose to avenge Gremio?

I guess all the time Camille spent fighting alongside us caused her to rethink her career and devote her combat skills to a more worthy cause, like liberating the country from a corrupt government and becoming one of its defenders after the war, rather than just being a thug for hire who tracks down people that owe money to shopkeepers.

What are your thoughts on Camille's story?

Wolkendrache
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Re: Camille

Postby Wolkendrache » Sat Oct 21, 2017 5:55 pm

At first I thought she was an important character because of her relatively big portrait on the (European) game cover; it’s the picture you can see by collecting all paints. Obviously I was getting disappointed, and it seems I wasn’t the only one. In older topics players have speculated about a more prominent role originally planned for Camille but finally left out, and all because of that picture. Since Tengaar appears on it but neither Flik nor Ted, I wouldn’t overvalue the picture and the sizes of the character portraits. On the other hand, as you mentioned, she became a great general later, so why wouldn’t she get a story or gameplay feature which makes the player think “yeah, that girl deserves to end up a great one!”? Take Valeria as an example.

For example: She should either have extremely high skill plus a fixed double beat rune. Or her story fleshed out, like her life is saved by Cleo who is then telling her that now she is in debt, and that she must repay it by serving Tir until she (Camille herself) thinks the debt has been fully repaid. Camille would further develop admiration for girls like Valeria, Sonya and Cleo, and ultimately become a great general. I chose Cleo for this because I feel she’s under-depicted as well.
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sticky-runes
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Re: Camille

Postby sticky-runes » Sun Oct 22, 2017 5:13 am

Yes Camille goes very quiet throughout the rest of the game (like Valeria once you clear the elf and dwarf stuff)
She could have at least had a scene during the night before Shezerazade, where she is dwelling on what to do with herself after the war is over. Maybe some dialogue with Valeria. Something like:

Camille: So what are you going to do after we win this war? Do you think you'll stay in the army?
Valeria: Most likely. Being a soldier is the only life I know. How about you? Are you going to go back to collecting debts?
Camille: I don't know. I thought tracking down targets was a good way to earn a living, but now... This war has shown me there are bigger things to fight for. when this is all done, maybe I could use my spear to protect the future of this land...
Valeria: That sounds like a good plan.

Another character I can see Camille forming a friendship with is Kai, but he was an optional recruit rather than a story line character.

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Re: Camille

Postby bluemask » Sat Oct 28, 2017 9:33 pm

Yeah.. it's kind of confusing how she became so attached to the Liberation army. While it is quite a trend in the Suiko-verse that if your arc is done, your importance is reset to zero, Camille has still some important participation such as the execution as you've mentioned.

Maybe her hatred has also grown-up due to the fact her debtor has died and she can't go back to her client or she'll be the one executed lol. But kidding aside, I dunno, maybe after her joining the party in beating up the Zombie Dragon, has changed and made her views of the world become wider and being just a debt collector is plain boring. But to reach the point of becoming a general, I can't think of any reason why she ended up that. Maybe the writers just pinpointed people who have quite an encounter with the hero and has a good verse in combat...?

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sticky-runes
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Re: Camille

Postby sticky-runes » Sun Oct 29, 2017 4:28 am

After we kill the zombie dragon and establish the HQ, Camille still whinges about getting paid. She stops this after Gremio dies, and suddenly the war becomes much more important to her.

Also, i don't think she became a general right away after the war... I think she just became a lancing instructor, and we find out she became a general in S2 if you talk to one of the guards in the Gregminster palace.

This is why I think she might have formed an interesting relationship with Kai (also an instructor who already worked for the Imperials) He might have been impressed by her and suggested that she could do more with her skill than just collect debts, although Kai didn't seem the type to criticize people's own choosing. But they do both end up in a similar position in the Toran Republic.

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Re: Camille

Postby bluemask » Sun Oct 29, 2017 5:34 am

So it's possible Kai vouched for her? Seems logical as being an instructor requires one to have an eye for potential students right? It just makes sense.

But still, hangs why Camille became so war-torned. Only I can think of she became "idk what I'm doing with my life so I'll go and make a big change to world instead" type lol or she was being true to her motto: ""I'll collect from your grave!". Reading more articles, there still aren't any mention of what had happened to her behind the scenes from S1. All I saw was she was part of the Soldier Beauties trio. Maybe she became popular within the army? Who knows haha.

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Re: Camille

Postby sticky-runes » Sun Oct 29, 2017 11:46 am

She is the second female to join the new Liberation army after Cleo, so they probably became good friends, although Cleo wasn't sure what to make of Camille on their first meeting (Cleo's reaction was "we've certainly recruited an odd one here...") Then once they started fighting alongside each other, they probably formed a better connection. They were both affected by Gremio's death as well. Camille was hunting him, but Cleo lived and worked with him. When you choose not to kill Milich, Cleo even asks you "Don't you want to avenge Gremio's death?" (And if you do, that becomes Camille's job)

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Re: Camille

Postby bluemask » Mon Nov 13, 2017 9:46 am

It's really odd, I still can't point why she'd stay. The choice of her being the executioner is really odd too. Maybe the writers thought using a spear for execution would do better judgment on that scene. All I can think of now is that she "could" have fallen in love with Gremio so she keeps following him. Idk lol.
Well, being the second female might give leverage to her role so in order to give credit, they have given her a bigger "future" role (general etc.), without thinking of the real reason why it would happen in the first place... umm, yeah.

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Re: Camille

Postby sticky-runes » Mon Nov 13, 2017 3:18 pm

Maybe being a bounty hunter, Camille felt that Gremio's life was in her hands...

"I'll collect from your grave" is the debt collector's motto, and you'll never outrun Camille the she-devil.

So at one point, she might have been prepared for the possibility of killing Gremio herself. Then he died because of Millich. So then Camille took it on herself to kill Millich.

This is not to say it was all business - you killed my target so I'll kill you.

It could be that when Camille spared Gremio, she came to see what a caring and compassionate person he was, and if she had killed him, she would have wasted the life of a good man. Gremio gave his life to protect the young master, so I can see this being the reason why she gives McDohl the "Do your utmost to protect the life Gremio gave you" speech. Earlier, she wouldn't have cared if Gremio died as long as she got paid. Now she is deeply saddened by his loss and wants to do something about it.

And when it came to confronting Milich, Camille must have seen killing him as her own way of redeeming herself for thinking of Gremio as a target instead of a person.


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