[Discussion] Reviews and Opinions of Suikoden II

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FoggyNotion
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Re: [Discussion] Reviews and Opinions of Suikoden II

Postby FoggyNotion » Sun Feb 26, 2012 1:23 pm

To be honest, the first time I played Suikoden II I didn't find it as engaging as Suikoden I. I guess the main thing for me at the time was that I felt the pacing was uneven. A lot of games you can say get off to a good start or a slow start, but Suikoden II had a bit of both. It starts out with ambush! betrayal! dangerous escape! taken prisoner! And then after that you spend time doing chores & running errands for your captors. Then Jowy breaks in. Rescue! Escape! Have to go back and find Nanami before the bad guys get her! Then you get caught up in a circus act, and have to deal with a Mist Monster. Then arrest! execution! rescue! escape! And then you get back and do more odd jobs for Viktor & Flik. Etc.

So the first time around I found all that to be a little off-putting. The story didn't really get going I thought until Jowy turns and assassinates Anabelle, and even then there were times when it lost momentum. But when I replayed it some years later (hopefully more mature & more patient) I came to really fall in love with the story, the characters, and to appreciate all of it. The 'slower' parts of the game really contributed to character development, and I think that if you didn't have a fair amount of time where you see Riou & Jowy's friendship in simpler times before they got so entangled in the politics & the war then Jowy's defection to the Highland side wouldn't have been as impactful, nor would you understand why Nanami was so desperate to get all of that back. The pacing is brilliant, in retrospect, because you do see Riou & Jowy gradually get more and more caught up in this conflict and having to make some very difficult choices.

TMan
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Suikoden II thoughts

Postby TMan » Tue Aug 13, 2013 12:32 pm

I've put off doing this for a long time, especially because I've already started a thread about the game.

As stated, I play S2 about once a year. Sometimes all the way through, sometimes the right ending, sometimes the Clive Elza story, sometimes til Jowy leaves. On this playthrough I gathered all 108 and finished the silly chef story.

That said, something very strange happened on this play-through. I... didn't enjoy it as much. I'm not sure why, just that I found myself far less emotionally invested in it.

Let's examine the highs and lows:

___________________________________________________

Act 1
Good intro, smart way to introduce heroes and villains at the same time.
Cleaning the Mercenary Fort felt kind of silly and out of place, as always.
I'm annoyed at how quickly Luca is able to tear through East Muse without being noticed. I'm annoyed that I can travel all over the world map without a single trace of the massive army he must have mustered.
Found the Cyndar Ruins surprisingly unchallenging on this playthrough, despite having @%^ing Millie in my party.
Hilltop conference is nicely done. I always find it jarring how short the political scenes in this game are, but they are very effective at being true to politics without being boring.
Solder: "Highland slaughtered our border guards and is headed for the city!"
Gustav: "I'm sure they won't attack don't worry. I'm an idiot."

Bye Annabelle. Your scene with Victor continues to be among the most touching in the entire series.

Act 2
Confused why Jowy isn't dead.
Confused why Luca would replace Solon with a known traitor. I know its explained in Suikogaiden, but it should have been here, as well.
Neclord runs away and magic giant monster appears in his stead without even seeing him before. Always bothers me.
Yay, my fav castle of the series, yay!
I hate you Bob.
I hate you Chaco.
I strongly dislike you Fitcher.
So despite a treaty, Kiba and Klaus still moved in to sack Two-River. And later on we should consider them good guys? Strange.
Why doesn't Luca sack Muse the way he did East Muse? What happened to Luca's army during this portion of the game? Why is it not being used?
Why doesn't Luca sack Radat the way he did East Muse? I'm sure his motivation is genocidal? It's a goof by the writers, I think.

Act 3
Ha! Take that Luca! You je-.... wait a second. No, I'm not supposed to feel sorry for you! Stop looking pitiful! Stop it!
Good glad that's over, no the end pretty much.
Jowy sure is being beaten badly. Shoulda let Luca kill the State army and then assassinated him, after all, you're much better at that than warfare.
Culgan and Seed sure seem like swell guys. Too bad they backed the wrong horse.
Final scene with Jowy and Jillia only works to re-enforce my belief that he loved loved loved her.

Final thoughts:
The end felt weak to me, as it always does. Is the Rune of Beginning one now? Has the Black Sword rune split from Jowy and joined its twin? Or does Jowy still have it? Or is the two of them living in peace supposed to signify that it is one because it is in them who are best friends?

It made me really sad talking to the villagers in Saja and hearing about how everyone hated Jowy.
Dreams do die

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Yuber
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Re: Suikoden II thoughts

Postby Yuber » Fri Aug 23, 2013 4:10 pm

to answer one of your questions in act 2. he sacrificed every one in muse to the beast rune. that is why he did not need to burn the city down as it was vacant.

and the reason he didn't use his army was because it was occupying muse. if you look at the time frame and how fast you do everything up until luca attacks, the hero visits a couple of places and luca left it to his generals to sort it. he was busy murdering his father and becoming king.
me > world

Ranadiel
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Re: [Discussion] Reviews and Opinions of Suikoden II

Postby Ranadiel » Fri Aug 30, 2013 1:15 pm

One thing I have struggled with about this game is that I still don't understand Luca's endgame or how the Beast Rune plays in to the plot. He goes around killing people, he sacrifices the souls of Muse to the Beast Rune - I get all that. But at no point does he ever state why he's doing these things. Is the rune controlling or influencing his actions? Is he trying to "awaken" the rune? If so, to what end? The game never really tells you, and he never says. Likewise, what role does the Rune play in the game after Jowy takes over Highland?

I honestly feel like the game has enough crazy political moves and emotional parts in the plot that the Beast Rune's involvement started to feel like it was an afterthought.

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Sasarai10
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Re: [Discussion] Reviews and Opinions of Suikoden II

Postby Sasarai10 » Sun Dec 01, 2013 4:22 pm

I don't know where to put it,but guys in the Rune list "Dryad Rune" has no info next to it,where it is found. Ok we know it's reffered on the bestiary,but someone who'll check only this list he won't find anything....

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Sasarai10
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Re: [Discussion] Reviews and Opinions of Suikoden II

Postby Sasarai10 » Tue Jan 21, 2014 6:54 am

Has anybody else noticed that enemies in Rockaxe castle (when you are heading for the flag) appear more frequently than in other areas? :?:

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gildedtalon
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Re: [Discussion] Reviews and Opinions of Suikoden II

Postby gildedtalon » Tue Jan 21, 2014 7:07 am

Rockaxe Castle gave me lots of game overs while I was doing the solo Riou challenge
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Sasarai10
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Re: [Discussion] Reviews and Opinions of Suikoden II

Postby Sasarai10 » Tue Jan 21, 2014 7:40 am

gildedtalon wrote:Rockaxe Castle gave me lots of game overs while I was doing the solo Riou challenge



Wait,how is it solo? You have Nanami in your party you know :|

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gildedtalon
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Re: [Discussion] Reviews and Opinions of Suikoden II

Postby gildedtalon » Tue Jan 21, 2014 4:26 pm

Have her dead at the end of every battle
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Sasarai10
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Re: [Discussion] Reviews and Opinions of Suikoden II

Postby Sasarai10 » Tue Jan 21, 2014 9:47 pm

gildedtalon wrote:Have her dead at the end of every battle



Hey that's not a true solo challenge you know :|

In order to die she must be defeated first (she has 1 HP,once battle starts) and even if you choose "defend",still she can counter :wink:

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gildedtalon
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Re: [Discussion] Reviews and Opinions of Suikoden II

Postby gildedtalon » Tue Jan 21, 2014 10:01 pm

That is a true solo challenge stated in the FAQ, I just followed it
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Sasarai10
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Re: [Discussion] Reviews and Opinions of Suikoden II

Postby Sasarai10 » Wed Jan 22, 2014 7:06 am

ok but i wouldn't do it,unless if Riou was the only member i could bring to my party. The only exception i would make is in the battle against Luca,because you don't have other options.

Heptade
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Re: [Discussion] Reviews and Opinions of Suikoden II

Postby Heptade » Fri Oct 14, 2016 5:20 am

Playing this for the first time. Great game overall. The story would be amazing if the translation was merely mediocre. People here understate the awfulness of the localisation. It is worse than the first game's, which was barely acceptable for its time.

While I do understand the story, parts of it lose credibility due to a poor choice of words (pronouns DO exist), amongst other issues (misspelling of characters' names, etc.).

I have taken a few Japanese lessons, but I am still a total noob and far from fluent in that language. Still, on a few occasions, I could guess exactly what was written in the original. That is not a good sign.

For that reason, III and V remain better games IMO (that might not apply to the original Japanese, though).

However, since I am studying to become a translator (English to French), my standards may be a bit high.

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Re: [Discussion] Reviews and Opinions of Suikoden II

Postby Wolkendrache » Sun Oct 16, 2016 2:41 pm

I love the first two games, but I can understand why they'll never become the language police's favorites :wink:
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Omnigamer
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Re: [Discussion] Reviews and Opinions of Suikoden II

Postby Omnigamer » Mon Oct 17, 2016 10:37 am

Given the rumors that the whole game was translated in just a few weeks time, I think they did pretty well with the resources they had available. That doesn't excuse the mistakes, but there are certainly a number of translations out there that are objectively worse with ostensibly more to work with (I'm looking at you BoF2).

For what it's worth, I don't think that being able to guess the exact source lines is a bad thing, so long as the localization still captured the proper meaning. Especially with the utilitarian way that Japanese is typically used, a lot of the same phrases tend to show up over and over. A good localization will give some creative flair and variety to those cases, but even if left plain I don't think it takes away too much from the experience.


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