[Discussion] Member Recommended Parties with Reasoning

If you are stuck in the Dunan Unification Wars; or wish for more details on the gameplay systems, this is the place.
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Shirofan
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[Discussion] Member Recommended Parties with Reasoning

Postby Shirofan » Wed Jul 21, 2004 3:16 pm

Because I seem to be powerless to stop people from trying to create topics asking what people's favourite parties, or best parties are then we'll do it in a regimented way that means you have to explain your choices in detail.

For each character in the lineup give details as to which runes you attach to them, what equipment you choose to use and explain why you have chosen that character to fulfill that role in your party.

Saying a character is 'cool' is a reason; but it needs to be clarified so you will have to explain why you think that character is cool and why that is more important to you than any other reason.

Then when you have elaborated in detail [This means several lines of text] about each character in the list explain why they function well as a group; note any useful unites that arise and why you find it beneficial to use them.

If any reply does not go into enough detail then a message will be edited onto the bottom asking for more clarification; if that is not forthcoming that reply will be deleted a day after being edited.
If a reply is just a list of characters it will just be deleted.

Any other such topic created asking for 'best', 'favourite' or 'suggested' parties will be deleted.

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Zotmaster
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Postby Zotmaster » Wed Jul 21, 2004 6:26 pm

There are two sets of good parties, one for the less experienced (or lazy) player, and one for the more experienced (or dedicated) player. As a general rule, Level 16 weapons and the best helmets and body armor should be equipped, as if you didn't know that.

For the less experienced, I recommend a party like this:

Flik Viktor Pesmerga
Riou Rina Luc

As far as runes go, I give Flik a Thunder Rune. He has pretty good magic for a front-liner, but we have enough all-hitters to allow him to concentrate with being even better at smashing one enemy. Viktor gets Double-Beat and Fury. He can do 4-digit crits with this configuration. Even if he doesn't, he gets two very powerful attacks. Pesmerga also gets a Fury if you have more than one. Otherwise, Double-Strike, Double-Beat, or Killer also work well.

Riou has his Bright Shield Rune, obviously. I also give him Flowing or just Water. This may seem redundant, but Kindness Rain heals more HP than Great Blessing. You just might need it, although it is rather redundant with the other characters in the back. As for his last slot, really, whatever you want is fine. Good choices are Fire for more all-hitting magic, Earth if you're paranoid about taking damage, Sunbeam if you're paranoid about Riou dying, or even Double-Strike, Double-Beat, or Fury if you still want Riou to beat things with his tonfa.

As for Rina and Luc, just pile on the magic runes. Blue Gate, Fire, Rage, Cyclone, Water, Flowing, Earth, you name it. As long as each has at least one Rune with spells that can hit all enemies and one Rune that can heal, you'll be fine. Wizard Runes enable them to destroy enemies with even more ease.

As for embedding Runes in weapons, I recommend Friendship, Kindness, Exertion, or just Rage/Thunder. Kindness is the trickiest to use, and you can only find one, so don't feel bad if you don't have it. These amp up the damage of your frontline guys even further.

For accessories, Power Rings and Power Gloves should go to your front line guys if you have them, Fire Emblems if you don't. For the back row, Magic Rings, Blue Ribbons, Gold Emblems, Fish Badges, or Water Amulets are all good choices to augment magical abilities and keep your back row characters from dying.

This party is great for beginners because it takes very little effort to make these guys combat-worthy. You don't even have to do a thing to Pesmerga since he has strong armor and a Rage Rune already. Viktor and Pesmerga are good at taking hits, and you have more than enough physical and magical attack power to take out enemies without trouble.

For the really dedicated person, swap out the front row guys for Killey, Sheena, and Hai Yo, and swap out Rina or Luc - whichever you hate more - for McDohl. Same rules for equipment apply, although you can choose to just augment McDohl's physical attacks with more Power Rings and Fire Emblems if you like. The damage Killey, Sheena, and Hai Yo can inflict is disgusting. McDohl is much like Riou in the sense that he's good at pretty much everything. You really need good Runes to make this party good, but if you get them, this party is quite literally unstoppable.
Congratulations, but you're still wrong, Killey.

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Postby Hxc Flavor » Wed Jul 21, 2004 7:09 pm

for some reason my killey never did that great amount of damage, although he was only level 60 at the beast rune. i've never gotten my characters past level 60 for the beast rune. this current play through i tried something different and used lc chan and wakaba, their unite was the only 4 digit damage i've had so far. how exactly do you beef up killey, sheena and hai yo? (i already know the runes needed.)
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Postby Zotmaster » Wed Jul 21, 2004 9:27 pm

The way you power them up is basically one part equipment and two parts Runes.

Armor like Master Garb and Flame Helmet raise attack power. As for accessories, Power Rings, Power Gloves, and Fire Emblems all significantly raise attack power as well. These are good because if you can get the Master Garb and three Power Rings on one person, their STR goes up 75 points. Killey, Sheena and Hai Yo can all do this. 75 points will get even a low STR score (say, 170-200 by level 99) to the mind-boggling 255 of the likes of someone like Pesmerga. With just equipment and no rune slots, this means Killey, Sheena and Hai Yo are now on roughly the same playing field as Pesmerga when it comes to physical damage, with just their equipment.

Now let's break out the Runes. Pesmerga can equip one. Wakaba can equip one (besides the one she's got). Oulan can equip one. Viktor and Flik can equip two. Killey, Sheena, and Hai Yo - among others - can equip three.

Why is that so important?

Double-Beat doubles your damage (because you attack twice). Fury and Double-Strike increase your damage by 50%. A Rage or Thunder Rune in your weapon can increase it by another 50%. Let's also not forget that Killer increases your critical hit rate.

We've already established that with the best equipment, Killey and company do damage comparable to Pesmerga. Now it's just a matter of simple mathematics. Pesmerga can add another 150% to his damage with an optimal Rune configuration. Killey and the rest, however, can increase their damage by at least 200% and still put on a Killer Rune and be 50% more likely to do 2.5 times more damage on top of the extra damage they're already going to deal.

You guys really should check out everything Suikosource has to offer. They did their homework. They wrote those guides for a reason. Use 'em!
Congratulations, but you're still wrong, Killey.

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Postby Kuromimi » Wed Jul 21, 2004 10:39 pm

Note: Equipment can take a stat such as strength beyond 255. If the raw strength stat for a character was 200 and you gave them Master Garb and three Power Rings, their strength would then be 275. Of course, the highest possible strength value for those characters with three free slots is 186-187 at level 99. You could always use the stone trick. ^^

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Postby Zotmaster » Thu Jul 22, 2004 2:45 pm

That's a good point, Kuromimi, but I chose to disregard it for two reasons:

1) The only character I'm aware of that has 255 STR naturally is Pesmerga. You can't raise his STR much past that anyway due to the fact that most of his equipment is frozen on him. Viktor's the only other character I can think of who might be near 255 STR, but it's probably less than that. You could probably raise his STR higher than Pesmerga's though simply because Viktor can equip lots of armor of your choosing. I'm assuming people want to play legitimately and not "cheese" anything (ie, the stones). I'm glad you mentioned that there wasn't a STR cap, though. I didn't mean to imply there was but I can see where people would think that.

2) Even with the extra items, you're still going to get more damage out of Killey and company. What's better, 150% of 300 or 250% of 250? I recommended an easy and an expert party with that in mind. The easy party I gave requires almost no thought and can still get you through any fight in the game.
Congratulations, but you're still wrong, Killey.

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Postby Kuromimi » Thu Jul 22, 2004 3:39 pm

I actually use the stone trick to raise characters stats to the highest possible value for their current level. That doesn't mean 255; you would need to check the stat growth chart to understand. If Riou is level 65, then check the stat growth chart to see what his stats would be had they gone up by the higher amount from level 01 to level 65. His strength would be 211. When I give him a Master Garb and two Power Gloves, his strength becomes 256. That's probably why I mentioned that armor can take it beyond 255. I should remind myself that not everyone will take advantage of this trick. ^^

This information will be important when I post my lineup. I'll be using the kobolds, but they'll be pretty buffed up when I raise their stats to the highest possible value for their current level. In my current game, Gengen is level 68 and has a raw strength stat of 155 strength--plus 39 from equipment for 194 strength. =P

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Postby Hxc Flavor » Thu Jul 22, 2004 3:46 pm

yes i know about the equipment as well. still, killey was only doing 200-300 dmg per attack vs the beast rune. hero was doing about 400 with a double beat and fury -- even though i know his raw stats surpass killey, sheena, and hai yo.
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Postby Asquian » Thu Jul 22, 2004 5:00 pm

I'll use my Luca blight parties(edited from another post), and my final party for this one.

Flik's Party:
Camus, Flik, Mik : Rage on Camus, Lightining on Flik, Double Beat on all 3
Nina, Variable unite pair :variable pair gets changed almost every time. Usually either a really good unite, or pair of powered up mages. Nina gets a flowing rune and an earth rune, and a good stock of medicines for her off rounds when she's been united with flik.

Vik's Party:
Vik, Oulan, Hanna: Titan rune on Vik, Fury on Oulan, Double beat on Hannah. Use the girl's unite to wipe out soldiers, then hammer away with Vik's Titan, Oulan's rune, and Hannah smacking him twice a round.
Sid, Chaco, Viki: Sid and Chaco get strength boosts, as it makes their unite do awesome damage. also, sharpening their weapons up gives them a better weapon attack than most characters. I use Sid's Darkness rune, and i give Chaco a Resurruction rune to balance out. Viki gets a blue gate(usually the one from the 2nd floor of the item shop), her blinking rune, and a water or flowing rune. This makes her great for healing and attack as needed. This group almost always has fatalities, for some odd reason, so Chaco's use of the resurruction rune can be frequent.

Riou's party:
Riou, Hix, Zamza
Nanami, Tengaar, Luc


All male party members have fire emblems except Zamza, who gets strength enhancing accessories. Hix and Riou get Double Beat runes, Hix gets a Fury Rune. Nanami, Tengaar, and luc are my magic batteries. Usually it runs:
nanami: Fire, Lightning
Tengaar: Earth, Fire
Luc: Blue Gate, Cyclone, Flowing(from gregminster)

Typically Flik and Vik's units focus on sheer damage, as much as can be fit in. If one or two chars fall, not too worried, as i get the heavy hitters def way up, and add what fire res i can.

Then when Luca faces Riou's unit, I hit em with everything they've got. Usually first round is a Riou/Nanami Unite, Hix attacks, Zamza uses Rune, Tengaar gives us some magic resistance, Luc pounds out whatever Blue gate summons. Luca seldom lasts more than 5 rounds, as by then Hix is doing uber damage, Riou and luc keep the party well healed, and Zamza, who takes almost no damage just keeps pounding on blight while nanami and tengaar hammer him/suipport our group.

Final Battle Party:
front row: Sierra, Bolgan, Riou: Bob and Bolgan get Violence runes
Back row: Bob, Tyr, Luc

This is my optimum damage party. Bob gets a violence rune, , Riou gets a Double beat and Double strike. All get magic defense boosting accessories. Sierra has a darkness and resurruction rune, Tyr has the sould eater, double beat and double strike, and luc has Cyclone, Flowing, Blue Gate. Weapons sharpened to max except for Luc, who never needs use a physical attack. I'll probably come back and edit this with specific gear, but i have a bad memory for armor and can't remember the ones i like to use off the bat.

First i focus on using physical attacks and hit all runes to take out the weaker limbs and the crystal, then i start unloading the specific hit attacks. At one point i got the speed balanced just right to where Sierra, Bob, and Bolgan would do servant attack, Violence rune takes effect, then Riou would heal, giving them all some nice attack bonuses. I always use Battle Oath as my first healing spell when needed in order to try and get those berserk bonuses.
I usually hold back on Tyr's Judgement spells until i'm down to just the heads, then unleash Judgement and Servant attack on one head at a time.

Typically this setup nets me a victory in about 6-7 rounds.

EDIT: made necessary changes after actually putting the game in and reviewing my parties at the necessary saves. trying to remember my setups of the top of my head obviously didn't work.
Last edited by Asquian on Sat Jul 24, 2004 3:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Red Killey » Fri Jul 23, 2004 7:26 pm

Final Battle Party:
front row: Bob, Bolgan, Riou: Bob and Bolgan get Violence runes
Back row: Sierra, Tyr, Luc

This is my optimum damage party. Bob and Bolgan get Double beat runes,

Can't be done. Bob only has one open rune slot while Bolgan doesn't even have an open rune slot at all. So it's impossible to put both Violence and Double Beat Runes on them.
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Postby Asquian » Sat Jul 24, 2004 11:15 am

Sorry, i shoulda put it as either, not both. havn't played in a while, but i remembered those two setups, so they blurred together in my mind.
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Postby Red Killey » Sat Jul 24, 2004 11:46 am

After reading your post more carefully, I also noticed more mistakes or inefficiencies.

Vik's Party:
Vik, Oulan, Hanna: Titan rune on Vik, Rage on Oulan, Double beat on Hannah. Use the girl's unite to wipe out soldiers, then hammer away with Vik's Titan, Oulan's rune, and Hannah smacking him twice a round.

I think you probably meant Fury Rune on Oulan instead? Fury is the one that would allow her to use her rune all the time. Rage Rune is the higher level of Fire Rune and purely magical rune. No use on Oulan, I think.

Sid, Chaco, Viki: Sid and Chaco get strength boosts, as it makes their unite do awesome damage. also, sharpening their weapons up gives them a better weapon attack than most characters. I use Sid's Darkness rune, and i give Chaco a Resurruction rune to balance out.

Might be useless to put Darkness and Resurrection if their main purpose is for their unite attack. Instead, put a different rune that would boost the ATK stat such as Double Strike Rune or Fury Rune or even Warrior Rune.

Viki gets a blue gate(usually the one from the 2nd floor of the item shop), her blinking rune, and a water or flowing rune.

Can't be done. Viki never got the Head slot open. So she would never be able to equip Blue Gate Rune.

This group almost always has fatalities, for some odd reason, so Chaco's use of the resurruction rune can be frequent.

While this might be a good reason to put a magical rune on Chaco, it still is less effective. You might be getting better result if you take Hanna out and replace with a decent magician. That magician could equip Resurrection Rune (which means that s/he could wipe out the soldiers with 1 spell), while Chaco could focus on physical attack/unite with Sid.

Usually it runs:
nanami: Fire, Lightning, Double beat
Tengaar: Earth, Fire, Wizard

Can't be done. Both of them only have 2 open rune slots.
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Postby Zotmaster » Sat Jul 24, 2004 12:12 pm

Ouch.

Even if your party was possible, though, Asquian, I do notice a couple of other problems.

You don't seem to have anything to do in the event a character drops in battle, not to mention you only have one healer. Sure, Riou is no slouch, but with enemies with multiple attacks, that one heal might not be good enough, especially if Riou's heal goes off before the enemy attacks do. And if someone falls?

Bob's Rune also costs you a turn as he transforms. Other than Bob, Bolgan and Sierra aren't exactly what you'd call heavy hitters. They fight better than empty slots, but still. And while 4x damage to one enemy is cool, that is, again, to ONE enemy. In a sense that's not too helpful. I do believe my party would net you more damage per turn even if your configuration was possible, due to the fact that Killey, Sheena, and Hai Yo can get a 250% or more buffer to their damage, individually, while still allowing themselves much greater odds to get another 2.5 times damage buffer with a critical. Thanks to Double-Beat, two criticals are possible, from each of them, per round. I could have opted for the Violence Runes instead, which would have made the damage disparity even greater, but I figure healing is better to make sure no one dies in combat, which is rather useful.

Looking back at my Rina vs Luc and allowing people to choose, in retrospect, I'd have to just go with Luc unilaterally. Luc's Magic and Speed stats can both get up to 255. He has higher max Magic and Speed stats than Rina (245, 186 respectively), or, ironically, "Master Mage" himself, Mazus (a nearly identical 246, 186). Also, while it's nice that Mazus has a Blue Gate and a Thunder Rune already on him, you can't take them off, which means he has a harder time being a good attacker and healer, with Flowing being about the only shot he has at being able to attack and heal (you could use Cyclone, but reviving would have to be left to someone else). Now that I think about it, why wouldn't you use Luc? Speed can be absolutely critical, but besides that, he's better at magic anyway.

If I made a mistake, someone correct me, but I think I've got about the best party Suikoden 2 has to offer.
Congratulations, but you're still wrong, Killey.

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Postby Kuromimi » Sat Jul 24, 2004 12:51 pm

During my current playthrough of the game, I'm testing out each character and finding out which ones I enjoy using in the group. For the time being, I'm definitely set on using Riou, Gengen, Eilie, Gabocha, Chaco and Luc. Here is there setup:

Riou - Current level is 76
Equipment: Wind Hat, Master Garb, Winged Boots and Power Gloves x2
Runes: Fury, Bright Shield and Double-Beat
Weapon Rune: Mother Earth
Statistics: Strength 267, Technique 238, Magic 164, Speed 239, Defense 164, Magic Defense 164 and Luck 223.

Riou is obviously forced in the group. He can usually manage to take out several enemies during regular battles thanks to his high strength, technique, speed and luck. During boss battles, his role changes to primary healer. Battle Oath is used during the second round regardless of how many hit points were lost during the first round. Hopefully those fighters without a Fury Rune are inflicted with berserk. First round could be used for Forgiver Sign; basically 2,000+ damage to one enemy. Since he now has two level four magic points, saving one for later on when serious healing may be needed isn't a bad idea.


Gengen - Current level is 76
Equipment: Flame Helmet, Master Garb, Earth Shield, Power Ring, Speed Ring and Gold Necklace
Runes: Double-Beat
Weapon Rune: Kindness
Statistics: Strength 202, Technique 179, Magic 163, Speed 178, Defense 163, Magic Defense 149, Luck 222

I can't help but love the kobolds. ^^ His role is to deal as much damage as possible each turn. He is one character that will need to be inflicted with Battle Oath's berserk. Without the berserk status, the damage dealt is still decent, especially since his chance to land critical blows is very high. Using his unite attack with Gabocha probably isn't worth it. The regular Kobold Attack doesn't deal enough damage and the special Kobold Attack doesn't occur often enough. They could easily take out three or four enemies by attacking serperately; plus no one gets unbalanced.


Eilie - Current level is 76
Equipment: Wind Hat, Dream Robe, Winged Boots and Power Gloves x2
Runes: Fury and Double-Beat
Weapon Rune: Mother Earth
Statistics: Strength 193, Technique 164, Magic 163, Speed 181, Defense 163, Magic Defense 164, Luck 164

Another character I use simply because I like her. The role for Eilie is to deal plenty of damage to as many enemies as possible. The chances of attacking multiple targets per turn is quite high thanks to the impressive speed she has; mainly due to the wind hat and winged boots. Most enemies cannot survive one hit from her, so she is capable of wiping out at least half a group of enemies. With the Dream Robe and decent technique, most physical attacks miss Eilie.


Gabocha - Level 65
Equipment: Wind Hat, Master Garb, Power Ring, Speed Ring and Silver Necklace
Runes: Double-Beat
Weapon Rune: Friendship
Statistics: Strength 187, Technique 226, Magic 152, Speed 175, Defense 152, Magic Defense 152, Luck 211

You know the deal, he's a kobold. Same role as Eilie, another long range damage dealer. He already has really high technique and luck, which is fantastic for dealing critical blows. I only needed to concentrate on strength and speed when choosing equipment for Gabocha. The damage dealt may not be as high as Eilie's, unless he has been inflicted with berserk by Battle Oath, but as mentioned already, the chances of getting a critical attack is much higher.


Chaco - Level 65
Equipment: Wind Hat, Robe of Mist, Wing Ornament and Power Gloves x2
Runes: Fury, Double-Beat and Double-Strike
Weapon Rune: Mother Earth
Statistics: Strength 182, Technique 152, Magic 152, Speed 172, Defense 152, Magic Defense 211, Luck 211

Characters who aren't completely human are welcome in my group. ^^ Chaco has a basic, yet effective setup for someone with three free rune slots. Nothing but physical damage towards two or more targets per turn. His overall defense should be high enough to ensure not much damage is taken from physical attacks while the Double-Strike Rune is attached. If not, I'll need to throw in some support magic for an extra boost. His high magic defense will also keep him safe from some of those nasty magic attacks used by the later bosses. Chances are, he'll be in the front row with Riou and Gengen.


Luc - Level 65
Equipment: Wind Hat, Robe of Mist, Speed Ring and Goldlet x2
Runes: Cyclone, Flowing and Mother Earth
Weapon Rune: Mother Earth
Statistics: Strength 74, Technique 153, Magic 230, Speed 233, Defense 74, Magic Defense 212, Luck 74

Luc is possibly the best support character in the game. With the three runes attached, he has access to some good healing spells (Kindness Rain and Healing Wind), defensive spells (Guardian Earth and Canopy Defense) and offensive spells (The Shredding, Earthquake and Shining Wind). During boss battles, he needs to concentrate on boosting defenses and creating a resistance to magic attacks. When back up healing is needed or someone has fallen and needs to be revived, he can pull that off. Rarely will Luc have the opportunity to contribute to the damage dealing. With so many damage dealers though, that isn't a problem. He will provide no assistance during regular battles; mainly because his overall attack is too low and he needs to conserve his magic points for the boss battles.
Last edited by Kuromimi on Mon Aug 02, 2004 3:53 pm, edited 13 times in total.

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Postby Red Killey » Sat Jul 24, 2004 12:54 pm

Zotmaster wrote:If I made a mistake, someone correct me, but I think I've got about the best party Suikoden 2 has to offer.

I'll try to argue it, hopefully my arguments make sense. And looking back at your earlier post, basically your party would consist of Sheena, Killey, Hai Yo, Riou, Tir, and Luc. So here goes nothing.

Looking back at my Rina vs Luc and allowing people to choose, in retrospect, I'd have to just go with Luc unilaterally.

If you compare them as magicians, then yes, Luc wins hands down. But if you're comparing between Rina (as a fighter) to Luc (as a magician), it's arguable that Rina could be more useful. With Kindness Rune trick, Double Beat and Strike Runes, and Kite Rune, Rina could deal around 1125s damage on every enemy every turn (if you're lucky to get her berserked with Battle Oath on first/second turn, she'd be dealing around 1700s to all enemies). That's more than what Luc could do with his magic. Also, that attack requires no MP at all, so you could use it freely without having to worry about running out of MP.

The choice of Hai Yo as the 6th member of the party is also arguable. He might have high WPN stat of 165, but his third rune slot opened at level 65. Most people would normally finish the game at around low 60s instead of mid-high 60s. Making it sort of inefficient to use him. Chaco might be a better alternative for a 3-rune slotter due to earlier open third slot, and high MDEF since most, if not all, bosses use magic attack. So it'd be helpful to have someone with high MDEF rather than mediocre one like Hai Yo.

So yeah, I hope my post makes sense.

EDIT:

Still need two more characters. Perferrably a secondary healer and a short range fighter who can take and deal plenty of damage. I would like to use characters that people usually don't bother using. ^^

People don't seem to use Gantetsu much despite being a very good character. Tsai and Tomo seem to be not so popular either. So any 2 of those 3 might be good for what you're looking for.
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