[Discussion] IczR1's Suikoden 2 Character Rankings

If you are stuck in the Dunan Unification Wars; or wish for more details on the gameplay systems, this is the place.
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Chaco
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Re: [Discussion] IczR1's Suikoden 2 Character Rankings

Postby Chaco » Tue Jan 27, 2009 1:14 pm

I haven't posted here in a very long time, but I recently fired up this game for fun. It's still one of my favorite games, so I just want to say thank you to the creator of this list. It's just incredible and will continue to fuel discussion for ages.


I to would like to throw out my thanks, because the creator of this list helped me prove to my friend how awesome Chaco is, and also helped me decide who to put into my party more and less. Like I have never really used Killey, but now I use him all the time. So thanks! :o
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Re: .

Postby Tenkai_FF_Star » Mon Nov 30, 2009 10:59 am

DracoFox wrote:ive never cheated with the jowy trick, but every time i do matilda glitch i allow him to live ( i kill nanami and hero in every battle so i dont have to play with level 40 chars the whole game.) i havent let riou live in a long time, but i remember comparing stats even then, that jowy was noticably better. maybe jowy's random stat growths did him well that playthrough. i just get real mad when jowy levels up, gets the 4 in MGC TEC SPD MDEF and then hero will get a 4 in TEC or LUK and 2 in DEF >< i usually reset sometimes out of frustration : P


and shouldnt shiro get bonus points, for being god's gift to killing so early in the game with a double beat rune :lol:




Recently, I had a playthrough where I decided to use a game save from another site which allowed me to have both types of Jowy in my party.

Their stats were very different. The 'sword' Jowy had higher attack than the 'staff' Jowy, yet the opposite could be said of magic. Plus, 'staff' Jowy's weapon could be much stronger also. I understand there is the randomness, yet these stats were vastly difererent.

Oh, and hello everyone!!

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Celes
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Re: [Discussion] IczR1's Suikoden 2 Character Rankings

Postby Celes » Mon Nov 30, 2009 5:23 pm

Hello :)

Could you tell us more details?

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Re: [Discussion] IczR1's Suikoden 2 Character Rankings

Postby Pesmerga VS. Yuber » Tue Dec 01, 2009 9:35 am

That is normal. He used the Gameshark code, and because Jowy is treated as two different characters, both of them can gain more or less stats each level.
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Celes
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Re: [Discussion] IczR1's Suikoden 2 Character Rankings

Postby Celes » Tue Dec 01, 2009 11:57 am

Technically, both Jowys are two different characters.

The question is: Do they have different stat growth rates?

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Re: [Discussion] IczR1's Suikoden 2 Character Rankings

Postby Tenkai_FF_Star » Tue Dec 01, 2009 12:22 pm

I'm not sure it was a Gameshark (or any other type) code as all characters were available from Leona; i.e not having to actually gameshark characters into specific party slots, which I haven't seen before. Emulation BTW. I'm not familiar with save editing so I can't say.

I played on the file for a while (which was a pain due to Emilia not being Greenhill, so had to Gameshrk her out, lol) and the two Jowy's stats were completely different.

Am I allowed to say where the file was from? I'm pretty sure loads have allready used/seen it anyway!

I would do it myself, but I have no idea about the randomness of stat gains so I should leave it to someone else.


EDIT*

Just found my old file....I was wrong, stats are pretty much the same (at level 53)

Although, the Sword Jowy's Spd starts considerably higher. I think it was 45 at level 1.

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Re: [Discussion] IczR1's Suikoden 2 Character Rankings

Postby highwind44029 » Fri Apr 02, 2010 8:43 am

He has a Winged Boots equipped in the Gorudo battle, so that explains the +10, but what about the +22? Are you sure it was at Level 1? He shouldn't get that high of a speed stat until Level 7 at the earliest.

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Re: [Discussion] IczR1's Suikoden 2 Character Rankings

Postby ninjaluc79 » Fri Oct 15, 2010 5:23 am

Using this modified version of the stat growth guide:


Growth Rate

00
Starting stat is 10
Level 01-19: 0-1 Usually increases by the higher amount; approximately 90%
Level 20-59: 0-1 Usually increases by the higher amount; approximately 60%
Level 60-99: 0-1

01
Starting stat is 11
Level 01-19: 1-2 Usually increases by the lower amount; approximately 75%
Level 20-59: 0-1 Usually increases by the higher amount; approximately 75%
Level 60-99: 0-1

02
Starting stat is 11
Level 01-19: 1-2 Usually increases by the higher amount; approximately 60%
Level 20-59: 1-2 Usually increases by the lower amount; approximately 90%
Level 60-99: 0-1

03
Starting stat is 12
Level 01-19: 2-3 Usually increases by the lower amount; approximately 90%
Level 20-59: 1-2 Usually increases by the lower amount; approximately 60%
Level 60-99: 0-1

04
Starting stat is 12
Level 01-19: 2-3 Usually increases by the higher amount; approximately 60%
Level 20-59: 1-2 Usually increases by the higher amount; approximately 60%
Level 60-99: 0-1

05
Starting stat is 13
Level 01-19: 2-3 Usually increases by the higher amount; approximately 90%
Level 20-59: 1-2 Usually increases by the higher amount; approximately 90%
Level 60-99: 0-1

06
Starting stat is 13
Level 01-19: 3-4 Usually increases by the lower amount; approximately 75%
Level 20-59: 2-3 Usually increases by the lower amount; approximately 75%
Level 60-99: 0-1

07
Starting stat is 14
Level 01-19: 3-4 Usually increases by the higher amount; approximately 60%
Level 20-59: 2-3 Usually increases by the higher amount; approximately 60%
Level 60-99: 0-1

08
Starting stat is 14
Level 01-19: 4-5 Usually increases by the lower amount; approximately 60%
Level 20-59: 2-3 Usually increases by the higher amount; approximately 60%
Level 60-99: 0-1

I have derived the following average values. The stats may deviate from the actual number since Suikoden employs a random stat increase per level.

Stat Growth - Average Stat
00 - 50
01 - 63
02 - 83
03 - 105
04 - 122
05 - 141
06 - 161
07 - 182
08 - 197

From this, I have deduced Riou's stat growth rates as follows:

STR - 06
TEC - 07
MAG - 05
SPD - 06
PROT - 04
MDEF - 05
LUCK - 07
HP - 05

I have noticed in the HP Growth Rates that there are also 8 main stat growth rates. The beasts have HP modifiers which make them different from the others.

The HP Stat Growth rates are classified according to their average values rounded to the nearest multiple of 25. The actual values might deviate from the given values. Refer to the Suikoden 2 Stat Growth Guide for more details

Stat Growth - Starting HP - Lv 1-19 - Lv 20-59 - HP at Level 60
00 - 10 - 3-4 - 5-7 - 350
01 - 10 - 4-6 - 6-8 - 400
02 - 13 - 5-7 - 7-9 - 450
03 - 16 - 7-8 - 8-9 - 500
04 - 20 - 7-9 - 9-10 - 550
05 - 24 - 8-10 - 10-12 - 625
06 - 26 - 10-12 - 10-12 - 675
07 - 28 - 11-13 - 11-13 - 750
08 - 30 - 13-15 - 13-15 - 825

Character HP Growths

HP Growth 00
Tuta

HP Growth 01
Makumaku

HP Growth 02
Mekumeku
Mokumoku
Mukumuku

HP Growth 03
Chaco
Gabocha
Hoi
Luc
Meg
Millie
Nanami
Rina
Stallion
Viki

HP Growth 04
Futch
Gadget
Hai Yo
Hix
Killey
Kinnison
Koyu
Nina
Shilo
Shiro
Sid
Simone
Tengaar
Ayda
Camus
Clive
Eilie
Freed Y
Gantetsu
Gengen
Genshu
Jowy
Karen
Kasumi
Lorelai
Mazus
Mokumoku
Sasuke
Sheena
Tai Ho
Tomo
Tsai
Valeria
Vincent
Wakaba (Starting HP modifier *10)
Yoshino

HP Growth 05
Anita
Badeaux
Flik
Hanna
LC Chan (starting HP modifier *10)
Lo Wen
Miklotov
Mondo
Pesmerga
Zamza
McDohl
Riou

HP Growth 06
Bob
Hauser
Bolgan
Georg
Gijimu
Viktor

HP Growth 07
Amada
Humphrey
Oulan

HP Growth 08
Rikimaru
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Re:

Postby ninjaluc79 » Sat Oct 16, 2010 2:57 am

IczR1 wrote: There's just one thing that's still left open: growth rate 3 and 4 look identical on paper, the only way to see the difference is in-game, that needs to be taken care of in some cases ...


Estimated Values at Level 60

Stat Growth 00 - 45-60
Stat Growth 01 - 60-80
Stat Growth 02 - 80-90
Stat Growth 03 - 100-115
Stat Growth 04 - 115-135
Stat Growth 05 - 135-150
Stat Growth 06 - 150-170
Stat Growth 07 - 170-190
Stat Growth 08 - 190-200

Growth Rates 03 and 04 are indeed identical on paper, but in-game they are different.

UPDATE: I'm almost done with the stat growth rates. I still have Clive and Valeria to analyze on. I have some of their stats at GameFAQs, problem is, the reviewers were so lame to not remove the stat-modifiying equipment from these people to obtain their raw stats, so I don't use them. Except for the animals' stats, because they can't wear armor. And no armor, no added stats.

MAJOR UPDATE:
All right, ladies and gentlemen, here it is!

Suikoden 2 Stat Growth Rates.zip


All right, I found a way to upload the Word and Excel file of this one.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
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highwind44029
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Re: [Discussion] IczR1's Suikoden 2 Character Rankings

Postby highwind44029 » Sat Jun 11, 2011 6:06 am

Are you sure about McDohl's stats? I'm pretty sure his SPD was either at 05 or 04 and his TEC was at 07 just like Riou's. Perhaps you forgot to take into account the Master Garb and the Winged Boots he has equipped.

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Re: [Discussion] IczR1's Suikoden 2 Character Rankings

Postby ninjaluc79 » Mon Jun 20, 2011 7:20 am

Probably. But the point is, McDohl's stats look like that simply because he wears those equipments the first time you meet him. Most people won't see that unless they take the stats seriously.
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Re: [Discussion] IczR1's Suikoden 2 Character Rankings

Postby Saj » Fri Aug 28, 2015 6:30 am

Well You all say that Killey is best char in game, how is that?
His STR TECH LCK are well avarage, on basic rune setup Fury/DS/DB and Rage wpn he do 2x500 dmg + 500 (normal hit ).
He got quite low SPD so no multiple. What's more on Beast Rune he often miss 2nd hit so he does on eatch 3 turn like 250 (1st hit) + 500 + 250 .
Ofc if u attack left leg or right head all dmg /2. And if enemy is immune to fire... ofc Exertion is bether chooice.

Suikoden 2 is quite easy game, there is no hard bosses so many taticts are not explored.
I wish there was more Beast Rune alternative battles.
For eg. To kill it u MUST kill all parts in 1 turn (easier) or in 1 blow (hard )
or 6 target Beast Rune with 1 extra rune immune to phisical attacts and 1 immune to magic attacts.
That would make game a lot more chalanging.

Well and how You compare Luc to Killey?
Luc on hyper can deal 2000 dmg to 6 enemies in one blow (Blue Gate on Hyper) thats 12000 non-elemental dmg.

Still game is easy so many people take 6x monk set (fury/DB/DS) like char and push auto.

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Re: [Discussion] IczR1's Suikoden 2 Character Rankings

Postby KFCrispy » Fri Aug 28, 2015 9:50 am

Killey is the most *customizable* character in the game, making him potentially the best in terms of consistent damage (and at least 2 targets per round). you can change stats with Stat Stones. people use Rage/Thunder on the weapon just to have consistent extra damage from the start; most battles won't last more than 4 turns anyway.
In 4 rounds, Rage/Thunder on the weapon would have contributed 200% more damage, while Exertion would have also contributed 200%. But random battles that last up to 2 rounds, Rage/Thunder is more valuable, while for boss battles that will last a while, Exertion is definitely better.


Your argument about Luc is completely situational and hypothetical.
1. 6 targets? there's no boss in the game like this, so you're talking about random enemies, in which case Blue Gate lv 4 is complete overkill. In Suikoden III, there can be 8 targets which means you can multiply damage by 8 instead of 6, but again, who cares? These enemies have always been pushovers.
2. There's no way to have Hyper/Alert status on round 1, so it's completely inconsistent
3. For practical purposes, Mother Earth is a better rune for Luc so you're not killing your party

If there was actually a challenging boss with 6+ targets who can be damaged all at once, we might have a better way to rank the characters, but since the toughest enemy is the Beast Rune that starts with a shield, a maximized Killey will definitely contribute more towards damaging the parts than a maximized Luc (because you also need that Hyper/Alert status setup, meaning someone loses a turn feeding an item that has a chance to cause Hyper or you give him Alert and wait 4 rounds). even if we make Luc a max stat melee character as well, Killey's weapon puts him slightly above Luc for physical damage.

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Re: [Discussion] IczR1's Suikoden 2 Character Rankings

Postby gildedtalon » Fri Aug 28, 2015 5:25 pm

Yeah, the fact that Killey likes to miss his attacks is why I rate Sheena higher than him despite the slow speed of Sheena
My GameFAQs account now is SheenavsKilley
I already closed gildedtalon, my old account

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Re: [Discussion] IczR1's Suikoden 2 Character Rankings

Postby ninjaluc79 » Sat Aug 29, 2015 12:11 am

Welcome back, IczR1.

Anyways, would you care to rank Suikoden 2 characters NOT BASED ON OVERALL EFFECTIVENESS, but rather on effectiveness with the following roles?

- Physical Damage Dealer
- Magical Damage Dealer
- Tank (Physical and Anti-Magic)
- Supportive Magician

My pet peeve in Suikoden character reviews is ranking characters based solely on DAMAGE DEALT, when there are so many more ways to help the team than just dishing out damage, and besides, pressing Auto-Battle all the time gets boring real fast.

Just my two cents, thank you.
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