Open Problems in Suikoden II Speedrunning

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Omnigamer
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Re: Open Problems in Suikoden II Speedrunning

Postby Omnigamer » Sun Nov 06, 2016 11:24 am

Seya's run has good luck pretty much all the way through with only a few significant instances of poor luck. The run I posted is a mixed bag, with some good luck and some bad luck. The overall route is basically the same one I came up with for this category, with the only differences being some menu differences based on personal taste. Note that I also have a 5:56:xx run, but it isn't uploaded at the moment. Either way, the 5:57 video shows the current steps taken at most points.

The OoB sounds interesting, but I have my doubts it would lead to anything significant. Still, if you can remember the steps to trigger it, we can play with it further from there.

srd_27
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Re: Open Problems in Suikoden II Speedrunning

Postby srd_27 » Sun Nov 06, 2016 11:25 am

Omnigamer wrote:For example, a number of minor cutscene skips are known for various points, but skipping them prevents you from advancing in the given area or dungeon.


What kinds of cutscene skips are there?

I know of the Tinto zombie skip (which is already used in the speedrun) and the Amada early recruit trick which will result in softlock (as mentioned by BadPotato). Any more of these?

Omnigamer
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Re: Open Problems in Suikoden II Speedrunning

Postby Omnigamer » Sun Nov 06, 2016 2:19 pm

You can skip the brief cutscene on your return trip to North Window after getting Star Dragon Sword by just walking around the area where the scene occurs. Doing so leaves up a barrier on the actual entrance though, so you have to see it to progress. Similar things happen in Muse, where you can skip brief opening dialog, but it doesn't allow progression if you do it.

I've tried a few other things just to explore possibilities, but the game isn't set up well for that. For example, you could skip all of Pest Rat if you could find a way to get through his loading zone, and still advance story after that. The addresses relating to your position seem to change by area though, so it's a tedious process to individually test different loading zones that way. And even so, that knowledge is useless unless there is some way to actually achieve the skip.

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ninjaluc79
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Re: Open Problems in Suikoden II Speedrunning

Postby ninjaluc79 » Sun Nov 06, 2016 4:30 pm

My problems do not necessarily involve speed-running, but rather the 108 SoDs + Clive's Quest Normal Run. I have done this before, but I could no longer pull it off since. I tend to forget things, my recruitment routes are often sub-optimal (I had to constantly go back and forth through towns because of my terrible memory with the game's plot), and war battles dread me so much even if they are scripted, because the SoDs can die if the war units are not optimized enough, which will count against the 108 SoDs run. In my last playthrough, terrible memory, trying to beat Luca Blight with only Riou's party, and war battles took the bulk of

I have the following questions:

1. How many recruits does Castle Level 3 actually need?
2. Which plot windows allow recruitment and do not allow recruitment? I am wary of recruiting people during plot missions because I simply do not know a which exact points in the game allow me to recruit SoDs and which ones do not. As a result, I failed to recruit Lebrante in my last playthrough before access to Radat was blocked before the Luca Blight battle, so I was not able to recruit Bob before the Luca Blight battle like I usually do when I am not trying to complete Clive's Quest.
3. What should I do with Clive's Quest after Radat? Should I go to Sajah right away or should I go somewhere. I have completed Clive's Quest so long ago I could no longer remember how I did it.
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Omnigamer
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Re: Open Problems in Suikoden II Speedrunning

Postby Omnigamer » Mon Nov 07, 2016 2:08 am

CL3 is 63 recruits, I believe.

For the most part, you are not "locked out" from recruiting characters just from embarking on a story mission, with the exception of Greenhill. If you're asking about when characters first become available to recruit, the SoD list for Sui2 on Suikosource is a good resource. There are a few errors, but overall it's mostly accurate.

There aren't any storyline cutoffs for Clive's Quest scenes, only the timer. In fact, when I offered Clive's Quest as a bonus incentive for RPGLB, I tested it by doing it all at once at the end of the game, starting from that second scene in Lakewest.

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ninjaluc79
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Re: Open Problems in Suikoden II Speedrunning

Postby ninjaluc79 » Mon Nov 07, 2016 2:42 am

More questions:

1. How about war units? Arranging war units eats up a lot of time but I do not want anyone to die in wars either.

2. Do you recommend beating Luca Blight with only Riou's party or is it just better to try getting a 1 turn KO from each of the three parties?
It's not all about knowledge, but it helps.

Omnigamer
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Re: Open Problems in Suikoden II Speedrunning

Postby Omnigamer » Mon Nov 07, 2016 9:50 am

The only point of any danger with War Battles are against Kiba, Luca, and in Rockaxe. For all of the other war battles, you can effectively run away to time out the battle, or use a cavalry unit with Chaco + Templton to just end battles early. I get that you're scared of losing somebody, but overall the chances are really low. If you do get a death, just reload a save from before the battle; no reason you need to do it all in one shot.

I think you're worrying too much about the time investment in fighting Luca. Fight him however you think you can win. Even with a lot of time spent in setup and otherwise, you should still be able to take him out with only 20 minutes work or so. You can also just use the back-row Riou bug, if you're worried too much about getting a safe setup.

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ninjaluc79
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Re: Open Problems in Suikoden II Speedrunning

Postby ninjaluc79 » Tue Nov 08, 2016 12:21 am

I am not really worried about getting a safe setup, and I don't intend to use the back-row Riou bug unless I am using three parties as opposed to only one. I am currently analyzing the Luca Blight battle to see what kind of party setup is optimal for normal play, not necessarily a speed run. In the end, though, people just pick whoever they like, but I would like to give people some useful information about the Luca Blight battle that people can use depending on their playing styles (offense-oriented or balanced offense-defense; physical-heavy, magic-heavy, or balanced parties).

I am thinking of creating a topic about the Luca Blight battle, so we can talk about optimal methods of beating him using as many party configurations as possible.
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