Millie and the Blue Gate Rune

[knight85]

having discovered that eilie's rune affinities are in the toilet. i have had to look elsewhere for a third long ranged mage.

and since i'm cheating anyway, i can use a code to get rid of millie's groundhog rune and replace it with something useful.

however earlier tonight i was looking on the internet to see exactly what elements effect the blue gate rune and i noticed a topic about millie and the blue gate rune, the wiki site says she's a good character for the blue gate rune.

but this side says that the last 2 spells pale palace and empty world are based on the user's water affinity. millie's water affinity is E, that means backfiring occurs. so which site is right? wiki or suikosource?

[wataru14]

If there is ever a conflict in information, go with this site.

[knight85]

so that would mean that millie and the blue gate runes high level spells dont mix?

oh well. i guess i'll just give it to luc and the hero for now

[Omnigamer]

If you're cheating anyway, couldn't you just hack her affinity to be A?

[knight85]

how do i do that? i'm just using codes to cheat runes onto characters and get some items

[wataru14]

Rina has a B with Water, so she'd be a great Blue Gate user. Better than the Hero actually.

[BrucePrintscreen]

I always use the Blue Gate Rune on Rina because, I mean, that's Rina.

I don't see why people bother to optimise characters to the top, when the game is nowhere hard enough to warrant it. I never paid attention to rune affinities because I already win every random battle within one round by playing with any kind of merely balanced party.

But if you want to use the Blue Gate Rune to the top just for the fun of seeing a huge damage points on the face of your ennemies, try Rina

[wataru14]

From a purely statistical standpoint, here's my take on the best Blue Gate Users.

Using the stat growth charts on this site, I set the MGC stats at:
Growth 8 = 200
Growth 7 = 180
Growth 6 = 160
Growth 5 = 145
Growth 4 = 130
Growth 3 = 100
Growth 2 = 85
This is comparable to stats of level 60 characters in my save file.

The formula for magic damage is (base spell damage x affinity) + Magic stat - enemy Magic Defense stat. I set the hypothetical enemy's MDF at 100 for this. (the formula appears in one of the threads in this forum, but I can't remember where).

Affinity modifiers are:
A = +40% damage
B = +20% damage
C = base damage
D = -20% damage
E = +20% damage but chance of backfire
No affinity = 0 base damage

The base damage numbers for each spell are:
Empty World: 900
Pale Palace: 400
King's Road: 150
Open Gate: 50
These numbers come from the Runes page on this site.

I calculated the damage each spell would do using these numbers for each character able to use Blue Gate. 20 characters can use the Blue Gate Rune (Sheena, Sid, and Tuta cannot use it, even though they have free Head slots).

Here are the best Blue Gate Rune users in descending order based on pure damage output (with relevant affinities, Magic growth, and my damage results listed for reference):

#1: Luc - A Water, B Fire/Lightning, MGC growth 8 [1360/660/280/160]
#2: Mazus - B Water, A Fire/Lightning, MGC growth 7 [1160/560/290/150]
#3: Tir - B Water, C Fire/Lightning, MGC growth 7 [1160/560/230/130]
#4: Viki - E Water/Fire/Lightning, MGC growth 6 (backfire with all spells) [1140/540/240/120]
#5: Rina - B Water, C Fire/Lightning, MGC growth 6 [1140/540/210/110]
#6: Millie - E Water, A Fire/Lightning, MGC growth 4 (backfire with top two spells) [1110/510/240/100]
#7: Gantetsu - B Water, C Fire/Lightning, MGC growth 4 [1110/510/180/80]
#8: Makumaku - E Water, no Fire/Lightning, MGC growth 4 [1110/510/30/30]
#9: Jowy - C Water, B Lightning/Fire, MGC growth 7 [980/480/260/140]
#10: Sigfried - C Water/Fire, B Lightning, MGC growth 5 [945/445/225/95]
#11: Nina - C Water/Lightning, A Fire, MGC growth 5 [945/445/195/115]
#12 (tie): Riou/Kahn - C Water/Fire/Lightning, MGC growth 5 [945/445/195/95]
#14: Karen - C Water, D Fire/Lightning, MGC growth 4 [930/430/150/70]
#15: Killey - C Water, A Fire/Lightning, MGC growth 3 [900/400/210/70]
#16: Lorelai - D Water, B Lightning/Fire, MGC growth 4 [750/350/210/90]
#17: Chaco - D Water/Fire, C Lightning, MGC growth 3 [720/320/150/40]
#18: Hai Yo - D Water/Lightning, C Fire, MGC growth 3 [720/320/120/50]
#19: Hoi - D Water/Lightning/Fire, MGC growth 2 [705/305/105/25]
#20: Sierra - no Water, A Lightning, C Fire, MGC growth 6 [60/60/270/110]

If I was looking at more than just damage output, I'd rank Rina above Viki. They do the same damage on the two big spells. Viki does more on the low level spells, but Rina doesn't backfire. And the two low-level spells are pretty bad. There are better damage spells for the same MP on almost any other Rune. I'd also eliminate Tir from the list since the Soul Eater does more damage then the Blue Gate anyway (and it's big spell doesn't hurt your party at the same time).

You get a total of three Blue Gate Runes in the game (not counting the Guardian Deity event, the Sajah Runemaster, or the one locked on Mazus): one from a chest in the Cave of the Wind, one from a chest in the Radat Item shop second floor, and one from beating Lucia in the Greenhill Forest. I would recommend one on Luc, one on Rina, and one on Gantetsu. If you get a fourth, put it on Viki. Tir has the Soul Eater, and Millie has an A in both Fire and Lightning. Both would be better served by other Runes. So, in conclusion, Luc is best, but Rina is a rockin' choice for the Blue Gate Rune!

EDIT 1: I realized Gantetsu does not have an A in Water. He has a B in Water, which drops him down a bit. Rankings fixed.
EDIT 2: Added my recommendations on where to put the limited Blue Gate Runes that can be acquired in-game.
EDIT 3: With the discovery that no affinity = 0 base damage, I added Sierra and Makumaku into the rankings.

[knight85]

huh i guess i wasnt paying attention to rina. i thought all her affinities were level C. ok the lady fortune teller can have the rune

[BrucePrintscreen]

Yay Rina always wins

Wataru, I admire your work a lot! Such tables as the one you just did should be somewhere on the website for everybody's use.

You also have a right analysis. Honestly, I am not fond of Luc because he can't attack properly and is so fragile, everything kills him. Gantetsu is at least a decent fighter.

[knight85]

if i was going to give tir the blue gate rune it would probably be for use in in a boss fight where the Hell spell is no use. same with the hero to give him a multi target spell in place of battle oath.

i spent last nite planning out all the runes i'm gonna cheat onto character in rune slots that they never get or take forever to get.

altho when i get home i need to decide what rune to put into flik's head slot.

so for the blue gate rune. i've already decide to do the same thing i did in suikoden 1 and amp up the magic stats of a character to match luc's (i used camille in s1) and use that character as my new mage. i'm thinking killey since he has great affinities but the jury is still out

[bluemask]

How are affinities even determined? I keep wondering but it's not by their personality, plus the fact you can't actually tell it in-game is weird.

[knight85]

yeah i think that up until suikoden 3 elemental affinities were a hidden stat.

but i think they hid it again in suikoden 4.

but they showed it again in suikoden 5.

when i first started playing my idea of using runes was to stick a fire and/or lightning rune on everybody the only character who didnt get one was chaco. he got a wind rune.

it took me 1 or 2 playthrus to develop a decent idea of how to play the game. these days a lot of how i play a game is planned meticulously before i even start.

a pain and boring sounding i know. but it's better than making a mess of things half way thru the game and having to start over to correct it

[veriaqa]

If there is ever a conflict in information, go with this site.

That's funny. My side....

[Vextor]

In terms of elemental affinity, Konami's official guidebook seems to have included bunch of fake info, which resulted in the wrong info being spread out till this day.