Bug Fixes

If you are stuck in the Dunan Unification Wars; or wish for more details on the gameplay systems, this is the place.
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Pyriel
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Bug Fixes

Postby Pyriel » Tue Jul 05, 2011 4:37 pm

Former Wiki: http://suikodenbugfixes.wikispaces.com/ (defunct)
Current Documentation: http://www.suikosource.com/games/bugs.php?game=gs2

Git repository: http://github.com/pyriell/gs2-bugfixes

The latest fixes go here first. If you want them, the easiest way is downloading a zip of the repository. It's structured similarly to the released patches, and the same instructions apply.

Latest public patch: GS2_Patch_2.01.065b_2013-12-19.zip.

How to improve a classic? Make it work right.

Over the last week or so, I've worked up a series of codes that can fix the more egregious bugs in the game. However, having to constantly play with codes on, so that you can enjoy the game as the makers intended it, rather than how they implemented it, is rather dodgy. To that end, I've cobbled together all the fixes into a PPF patch file that can be applied to an ISO of the game. I'm in the process of play-testing it, but one person can't test everything. So if anyone is interested, just PM me and I'll send you a link to the PPF file. Obviously, you'll need to be playing on an emulator or modified console to use the patched image/disc.

The file was made to target an unstripped ISO of the NTSC (U)/North American version of the game, 513,907,296 bytes in size, SHA1: 123ad3a15b3f634afd2ba0144405f9d156417907, CRC32: 7FBE0579. It contains the following fixes.

Code: Select all

FILE: /CDROM/010_ARA/VA11.BIN
FILE OFFSET   ORIGINAL VALUE               NEW VALUE                  COMMENT
0x31820      B5AEA598C2A2000000            47191E1F2411252200               Minotaur monster name (Tenzan)
0x34310      841E1480B797C3A200            471117252300000000               Magus monster name (Tenzan)
0x378F8      9CB7BE000000000000            3D18191D1522110000               Chimera monster name (Tenzan)
0x28784      D4621380D4621380F0621380F06213800C6313802863138028631380446313804463138060631380
*******                        D46213807C631380F0621380986313800C63138028631380B4631380446313804463138060631380
*******                                             Add Chimera formations to Encounter Table


FILE: /SLUS_009.58
FILE OFFSET   ORIGINAL VALUE               NEW VALUE                  COMMENT
0x37B7C      1000A28FE8880208211022021000A28F      1000A283E8880208211022021000A283         Fix Recruit at lv. 99 bug.


FILE: /CDROM/150_BPRG/BUFF0/BP0_AFT.BIN
FILE OFFSET   ORIGINAL VALUE               NEW VALUE                  COMMENT
0x2998      D6FF4524               D5FF4524                  Fix Recipe Bugs (Recipes 1-24).
0x29E4      21805402               21807402                  ibid
0x2A00      07106202               07104202                  ibid
0x2A34      E1FF4524               E0FF4524                  Fix Recipe Bugs (Recipes 25-40).
0x2A80      21805402               21807402                  ibid
0x2A9C      07186302               07184302                  ibid

FILE: /CDROM/080_ARH/VH10.BIN
FILE OFFSET   ORIGINAL VALUE               NEW VALUE                  COMMENT
0x9AC8      1766021C0608FFFE            1766021C0640FFFE               Fix Lamb/Chest "Got" overlap in Unicorn Woods (Display).
0x9E58      06086500B00108FF            06406500B00108FF               Fix Lamb/Chest "Got" overlap in Unicorn Woods (Treasure Available).


Are there any other bugs in need of attention? I'm aware of the purchasing bug with the armorer, but you have to do so much work to trigger it that I don't really worry about it. It's also not detrimental to the player in any way. There's also the bug with the vegetables and animals not showing up when you turn in more than one at a time, but that's mostly aesthetic. I might look into it, but I'd rather leave it lower priority than the game-breaking bugs, or bugs that prevent content from being accessed.

I'll also entertain suggestions for replacing things in game. For instance, if the Solitude Crystal works properly, I could stick it in a chest somewhere. One of the three necklaces in the Unicorn Woods could be easily replaced. You've got your castle when you reach that point, so it seems like a good time to hand you a rune that rewards the hero for going it alone. This would be mostly separate from the bug-fixes, though. Personally, I'd like to have one of the enemies in the Window area drop Prosperity Runes with maybe a 1%-2% chance, so you can farm them and earn your upgrade money by hunting, instead of cheating or playing Chinchorin. I don't think everybody would agree with that, though.

Edit:2015-01-17

Archive copy of the wiki: Suikoden Bug Fixes archive.
This contains some information that hasn't been re-hosted elsewhere, such as data compression, analysis of the G1 import script and squirrels, and a mostly correct breakdown of character encoding. If the Japanese encoding is available elsewhere, it's on some esoteric Japanese website that I've never seen.

Convenience Scripts for IDA.
If you're using IDA, this archive contains a couple of IDC scripts I wrote to make working with Suikoden II easier. The psxparse_s2.idc script will identify code, pointers, and one or two other things in GS2 BIN modules and forces IDA to analyze them automatically. Realistically, it should work on almost any PSX game that uses a similar setup for its executable modules. In my experience Konami games are a bit of an oddity, though. The script may only be useful in GS1 and GS2. The second script s2_selstring.idc allows you to select data you believe is a string, and with a button press will parse it an create a comment containing an equivalent ASCII string. This works within reason. Some values with no ASCII equivalents must be skipped or encoded in control characters. The script searches from the cursor location until it finds a terminating null character up to 255 characters.

I assign these scripts to key presses in my IDA config. Loading a module file becomes as easy as opening it with the right processor and hitting, say, CTRL+3 to force an initial analysis, rather than identifying all the code manually. Sometimes things are missed, but usually 90% or more is properly identified.

Bugs and Improvements to be Worked
Confirmed, Multiple Versions
  • Gremio rubbish text and crash if you try to sail away from Banner Village with him in tow.
    • Fixed in NA version (download Git repository)
  • Escape Talisman in North Sparrow
    • Fixed in NA version (download Git repository)
  • Give Tai Ho bonuses in G1 load
    • Added in NA version (download Git repository)
  • Rune transfer in G1 load
    • Added in NA version (download Git repository)
  • Turtle Plans 4 in climbing mini-game can be won multiple times.
    • Fixed in NA version (download Git repository)
  • Emilia in Greenhill may refer to hero by the wrong name.
    • Fixed in NA version (download Git repository)
  • Inn bug fix causes you to not heal if you save and immediately quit.
    • Fixed in NA version (download Git repository)
  • Gregminster shop has two sets of rare finds.
    • Fixed in NA version (download Git repository)
  • Adlai recruitment doesn't destroy items if they're equipped (wooden shield, jizo, wind crystal).
  • Random gibberish text.

Unconfirmed
  • Game-ending triggered during Greenhill events (may not be able to repro).
  • Sacrificial Jizos may cause crash (two broken by counters in Luca battle?). May not be able to repro.
    • Another possibility that is quick to test for the Jizo: the last Jizo to break was one I used to recruit Adlai with. There's a bug mentioned elsewhere that if you use items that are currently equipped when you recruit Adlai, it doesn't actually consume the item. If that was the Jizo that broke, it may have to do with some messed up item flags that result from that bug. I will try to test this out during my next playthrough.

German Version
  • Invisible third option causes crash during Valeria/Kasumi recruitment in German version.
  • While defending Two River, you have to fight against some Highland soldiers. Then you get to make a choice between going to the Kobolds or to fight against more Highland soldiers. The game seems to crash after the last of these fights.

Japanese Version
  • Scroll shop fix may cause crashes.
Last edited by Pyriel on Wed Nov 11, 2015 10:33 pm, edited 12 times in total.

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Raww Le Klueze
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Re: Bug Fixes

Postby Raww Le Klueze » Tue Jul 05, 2011 11:47 pm

Since you said it fixes the names of Tenzan pass I assume it's a patch for the NTSC version since the PAL version already fixed that? Other things in the NTSC version that were fixed for the PAL version is the data transfer bug, Annallee not singing when you recruit her, missing music during war battles (it has two songs, one doesn't play).

And since you fixed the untranslated names you might want to fix the other untranslated lines, particulary the merchant tips are gone in the NTSC version but also two lines after you beat the Beast Rune.

And if you're already in that area and mucking about perhaps you'd be interested in fixing the translation gaffes? I can help you correct them if you're interested but I don't have the technical knowledge to apply them.
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Re: Bug Fixes

Postby Pyriel » Wed Jul 06, 2011 8:51 am

Yeah, I should have mentioned the game version in there somewhere. Post edited. For the record, I don't have the Japanese or PAL versions of the game, but if someone is up for sharing, I should also be able to apply many or all of the fixes those could use.

I completely forgot about the data transfer bug. I assume you mean the "TcDohl" issue. That's now next on the list.

I don't know how much luck I'll have with missing audio, but I'll see what I can do. The translation issues are definitely worth ironing out. I've been closely following the walkthrough on the site so far in my test play-through, and I noticed that "Nanami's Favorite Vases", becomes "Nanami's Remaing Favorite Vases", or something like that, when you first reach Kyaro. That's probably less than an hour in, if you don't do the 108 battles at the beginning. I think it was done to keep the message on one line, but there are so many other ways they could have gone with that. I might have done, "Most of Nanami's Favorite Vases". I doubt it captures the original meaning as well, but it implies the same thing. At least it reads like a minor attempt at humor, rather than a typo.

I'm not familiar with the merchant tips issue. If the dialog is untranslated, and completely deactivated, it might not be possible to completely fix the issue without rebuilding more of the game than is really possible with a simple ISO patch.

I'll take any help you want to give, thanks. The more bugs the patch fixes the better. And between you, I think the people on this site have been cataloging issues with this game for about thirteen years, so I'm sort of relying on you all to be my Bugzilla.

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Re: Bug Fixes

Postby Raww Le Klueze » Wed Jul 06, 2011 9:24 am

I'd be fine with replacing some generic item with a Solitude Rune, but messing with the drop rates seems to me like it strays from the purpose of "as intended". There's also the question of the Matilda Glitch, leave it or fix it? Konami did fix that themselves for the PSP version so it seems they're not fond of it.

Oh, the merchant tips are activated it's just that it's gibberish, the text displays but since it's untranslated it becomes complete nonsense with the english values for text. You'll pay them a few potch for a tip and they respond like "Gk(!"!%[x".

I can probably get the translations off the PAL disc but I don't know how they conform to the NTSC version.

For a first draft of the translation issues there are a couple of general ones that appear in multiple places so need to be replaced all over.

    Runes:

    Gozz Rune = Gozu Rune / possibly Minotaur Rune (reason being that Gozu is the ox-headed demon it's named after, Suikoden V called it Minotaur though for simplicitys sake)
    Resurrection Rune = Exorcism Rune
    True Holy Rune = Godspeed Rune

    Names:

    Mazus = Mathers
    Silverburg = Silverberg
    Star Dragon Sword = Zodiac Sword
    Ruka = Luca
    Luca Bright = Luca Blight
    Joei = Jowy

    Items:

    Necklace = Collar
    Mindfullness = Listening Crystal
    Hearing-aid = Listening Crystal

    Spells:

    Charm Arrow = Exorcism
    Hell = Hades
    Scream = Possibly Katsu (reason being that Katsu is the japanese name but has no translation as it's a form of screaming exclamation used to scold in Zen)
    Thor Shot = Ball of Lightning

I'll get back on the specific ones when I find their locations.

And on kind of the same subject, the punctuation is atrocious throughout. Usually 3 of a kind is the norm, e.g. !!!, ???, ...
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Re: Bug Fixes

Postby eldrasidar » Wed Jul 06, 2011 2:12 pm

I'd actually suggest that several of the translations are actually fine as is Raww.

Gozz Rune is also used in Suikoden 3 and tactics under the same name, so I don't think it's crucial to fix it, but if it's changed, it should go to minotaur rune, to be consistent with suikoden 5's translation.

Resurrection is fine as is, given that it does actually revive characters, it is an appropriate name.

Star Dragon Sword for instance is more regularly used than Zodiac sword, and consistently used in every Suikoden it appears in, so if anything you'd want to switch mentions of the Zodiac Sword, even if Zodiac is a better literal translation from the original japanese.

Mazus is again more appropriate than Mathers, even though Mathers might be a better literal translation. Given that it's a proper noun, no translation is going to be perfect, and at since this one is consistent throughout the series, I say keep it.

Necklace and collar is potato/patato. You can't actually see the item, both are worn around the neck, and you can find both collars and necklaces that are heavy, silver, and gold, so I don't see a problem.

Hell and Hades are essentially the same thing, so there isn't any reason to switch one for the other.

Scream is a okay translation for Katsu. Any word that roughly describes that kind of action would work, although Scream doesn't really makes sense for a spell that restores life and removes status ailments. Jolt might be more appropriate, given that the point of Katsu is to jolt the receiver.

Thor Shot and Ball of Lightning is again a matter of being literal versus intentional. Thor is a god of thunder and lightning, so it makes sense to call a Ball of Lightning Thor Shot instead, it evokes the same intention, and is more interesting.

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Re: Bug Fixes

Postby Raww Le Klueze » Wed Jul 06, 2011 2:27 pm

eldrasidar wrote:Gozz Rune is also used in Suikoden 3 and tactics under the same name

Actually it's Goss in Suikoden III and Gozz and Goss are both nonsense words.

Resurrection is fine as is, given that it does actually revive characters, it is an appropriate name.

It does not revive them, it wakes them up, and it's a rune used to exorcise undead creatures.

Star Dragon Sword for instance is more regularly used than Zodiac sword

The point was to fix the translation, not make it suck equally. And it's never been called Zodiac Sword in any english game, and it's Star Dragon Sword that is the literal translation while Zodiac is the correct one.

Mazus is again more appropriate than Mathers, even though Mathers might be a better literal translation.

So the character named after an actual english person called Mathers is better translated as Mazus? The logic there escapes me I'm afraid.

Given that it's a proper noun, no translation is going to be perfect

Rather defeats the purpose of a re-translation then if you can't fix things.

and at since this one is consistent throughout the series, I say keep it.

It's kinda hard for it to be consistent throughout the series when the guy is only even mentioned in Suikoden II. Oh sure, he's in gaiden but that was never released in english so moot point. What consistency?

Necklace and collar is potato/patato. You can't actually see the item, both are worn around the neck, and you can find both collars and necklaces that are heavy, silver, and gold, so I don't see a problem.

A dog collar is the same as a necklace? I shall remember for my sisters birthday, I shall report the results. There's actually a logical reason why only non-humans can wear the "necklace".

Hell and Hades are essentially the same thing, so there isn't any reason to switch one for the other.

First off, they're not the same thing, the greek version of hell is Tartarus. Two, it was corrected for Suikoden IV so apparently Konami felt there was a reason to switch?

Thor Shot and Ball of Lightning is again a matter of being literal versus intentional. Thor is a god of thunder and lightning, so it makes sense to call a Ball of Lightning Thor Shot instead, it evokes the same intention, and is more interesting.

Hardly. And you're completely neglecting that it's called Ball of Lightning in Suikoden, consistency maybe?
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Re: Bug Fixes

Postby Antimatzist » Wed Jul 06, 2011 4:04 pm

Thanks, Raww, for explaining the "Gozz-Rune" origin! I'd say to change it.

I would keep "Scream" instead of "Katsu", but only because I don't know any other good way to describe what they do...

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Re: Bug Fixes

Postby eldrasidar » Wed Jul 06, 2011 4:30 pm

Gozz Rune is also used in Suikoden 3 and tactics under the same name

Actually it's Goss in Suikoden III and Gozz and Goss are both nonsense words.


So is Gozu in English, as are many proper nouns in English, which require you to go back one or more languages to find one where it has a meaning.


Resurrection is fine as is, given that it does actually revive characters, it is an appropriate name.

It does not revive them, it wakes them up, and it's a rune used to exorcise undead creatures.


revive means to restore consciousness, ie wake up, although it may also mean to restore life as well. resurrection although often connoting a return from the dead, can also mean to restore vigor to something, be it a life, a practice. as for the rune's purpose, it could be considered only half damage and half healing. Really it should have been called the Holy Rune, to denote it's dual roles in fighting evil, but also divine healing

Star Dragon Sword for instance is more regularly used than Zodiac sword

The point was to fix the translation, not make it suck equally. And it's never been called Zodiac Sword in any english game, and it's Star Dragon Sword that is the literal translation while Zodiac is the correct one.


it's a proper noun, and proper nouns don't translate.

Mazus is again more appropriate than Mathers, even though Mathers might be a better literal translation.

So the character named after an actual english person called Mathers is better translated as Mazus? The logic there escapes me I'm afraid.


Given that most people don't know that factoid, nor does it factor into the enjoyment of the game at all, and the game is consistent in using Mazus instead, there's no practical reason to change it back. Besides I appreciate the irony that the Mathers that is referred to was a famous translator.

Given that it's a proper noun, no translation is going to be perfect

Rather defeats the purpose of a re-translation then if you can't fix things.


yup

and at since this one is consistent throughout the series, I say keep it.

It's kinda hard for it to be consistent throughout the series when the guy is only even mentioned in Suikoden II. Oh sure, he's in gaiden but that was never released in english so moot point. What consistency?


I had the vague recollection that he was mentioned in other titles, in a similar manner to Crowley. I could be wrong on this point though.

Necklace and collar is potato/patato. You can't actually see the item, both are worn around the neck, and you can find both collars and necklaces that are heavy, silver, and gold, so I don't see a problem.

A dog collar is the same as a necklace? I shall remember for my sisters birthday, I shall report the results. There's actually a logical reason why only non-humans can wear the "necklace".


people wear collars too, and chokers and all sorts of different neckpieces. functionally, they all have the same value, given that I don't recall them stating that necklaces in suikoden 2 came with tags stating their owner's name and address on them. just because kobold's wear them and they look like dogs and dogs wear collars, not necklaces, doesn't mean that kobolds don't wear necklaces, or prefer to call the neckpieces they wear necklaces instead of collars, even if they look more like collars than long chains with pendents at the bottom.

Hell and Hades are essentially the same thing, so there isn't any reason to switch one for the other.

First off, they're not the same thing, the greek version of hell is Tartarus. Two, it was corrected for Suikoden IV so apparently Konami felt there was a reason to switch?


tartarus is within the realm of Hades, so I fail to see the problem here. I never said that Hades and Hell were exactly the same, only comparable. Moreover, Christian writers in Greece used the word Hades to describe the Christian Hell, so there is precedent for using the words interchangeably.

Thor Shot and Ball of Lightning is again a matter of being literal versus intentional. Thor is a god of thunder and lightning, so it makes sense to call a Ball of Lightning Thor Shot instead, it evokes the same intention, and is more interesting.

Hardly. And you're completely neglecting that it's called Ball of Lightning in Suikoden, consistency maybe?
[/quote]

Consistency is not something that the elemental runes spell names have between suikoden 1 and suikoden 3. The only lightning spell that stayed consistent from 1 to 2 was angry blow and all of them changed between 2 and 3.
If anything, you'd want to use the names from suikoden 3 if you want to make the consistency argument, since 4 and 5 both continue to use those names(albeit 4 switches a few of them around for no obvious reason). However, given the change in locale between in each game, and the slightly varied effects from game to game(not in the case of ball of lightning/thor's blow, but in other spells), I see no reason to change the spell names purely for consistency. I tend to think of them as localized variants, just like an elevator in america is a lift in england. It's not like any of them are horribly wrong like calling ball of lightning something random like Glue Stick.

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Re: Bug Fixes

Postby suiko2fan2 » Wed Jul 06, 2011 5:26 pm

Also, dont forget at various times Leknaat calls the Bright Shield the shinning shield rune and at I can't recall for sure, but might call the black sword, the the black blade rune.

Also, During the McDohl sidequest, After you get Tir and Germio, and head off into the forest after Ko, if you try to leave Bannar and get on the boat, Gremio will say Gibberish and my game will freeze or crash.
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Unleashing True Runes
https://youtu.be/Q7Ry1WmNMNg

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Pyriel
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Re: Bug Fixes

Postby Pyriel » Wed Jul 06, 2011 7:56 pm

Some of those suggestions I might be inclined to take. I know the translators screwed up in a lot of places, because they weren't familiar with the stories behind certain things or their cultural awareness was otherwise lacking. Example: I'm inclined to modify the Gozz rune, just because the creators pretty clearly intended a particular meaning that has been replaced with nonsense in any language. I'd probably replace it with "Minotaur", though. Most Westerners don't have the context for "Gozu". I could change the name of one of the enemies named "Minotaur" to "Gozu", but that would be a pretty oblique way of trying to explain it. That said, those aren't bugs, omissions, or glaringly obvious errors (to most), so I'd rather wait for some sort of consensus before rechristening things.

Code: Select all

Character   Suikoden Value      Suikoden II Value
a-z      0x11-0x2A      0x11-0x2A
A-Z      0x2B-0x44      0x3B-0x54
0-9      0X45-0X4E      0x98-0xA1   
:      0x4F         0xA2
;      0x50         0xA3
"      0x51         0xA4
'       0x52         0xA5
'       0x53         0xA6
&      0x54         0x64
,      0x55         0x65
.      0x56         0x66
!      0x57         0x67
?      0x58         0x68
(      0x59         0x69
)      0x5A         0x6A
+      0x5B         0x6B
-      0x5C         NONE
t-angle      0x5D         0x6D
b-angle      0x5E         0x6E
dot      0x5F         0x6F
t=angle      0x60         0x70
b=angle    0x61         0x71
Circle      0x62         0x72
Cross      0x63         0x73
Square      0x64         0x74
Triangle   0x65         0x75
Star      0x66         0x76


This is why the Suikoden Hero name gets hosed. Instead of using the same character encoding, they changed it up in odd, and seemingly arbitrary ways. They don't do a direct memory or string copy, because they have to try to re-encode the characters. Honestly, it would have been better if they had done a memset followed by a memcpy, and then translated the characters in the destination string. Instead, they translate the characters as the copy is being performed, and there are two major bugs in the routine. Firstly, they don't account for the string terminating NULL. It's skipped like any other untranslatable character. This is why any name less than 6 characters in length will always be partly "McDohl". That default is in all the destination locations, and without a NULL being inserted, the trailing characters just sit there, mocking Konami. Second, they dorked up the routine such that it can't translate lower-case characters (which don't even require translation). When it encounters a lower-case letter, it just moves on to the next character. I think I remember seeing a guide that stated naming your Suikoden I character something in all capitals would work fine. This is why.

Anyway, I can't really make a GameShark code to fix this one properly. Something can be cobbled together for that, but it's easier just to repair the name after the fact. The programming is so simple that it was optimized extremely well. In order to fix both bugs, I had to rewrite the entire sub-routine from start to finish, so I could insert 4 operations that correct the issue. As a cheat code, it'd be 104 lines long.

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Raww Le Klueze
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Re: Bug Fixes

Postby Raww Le Klueze » Thu Jul 07, 2011 1:14 am

Pyriel wrote:I'd probably replace it with "Minotaur", though. Most Westerners don't have the context for "Gozu". I could change the name of one of the enemies named "Minotaur" to "Gozu", but that would be a pretty oblique way of trying to explain it.

Funny you should mention that, the enemy that drops Gozu Rune is called Gozu in the Japanese game. Gozu literally means ox-head.

Aside from that I also remembered that there are some immersion breaking things where they reference real countries in the english game, e.g. Japanese Dish which should be Harmony Dish/Plate.

There's also lots of mentions of France and China in the cook-off introductions where they'll say something like "Apple apparently likes French food" or "Huan has a passion for Chinese food", whereas the Japanese version used Western, Eastern and domestic for the descriptions. So French = Western, Chinese = Eastern, Japanese = Domestic. For a player of the english game though "Domestic food" is instinctively going to mean "Western", but then there's a problem of differentiating Chinese/Eastern from Japanese/Eastern in a way that is intuitively obvious.

Following is a list of inaccurate lines, their .BIN files, general line location and reference.

Code: Select all

VB02 00009CB0 "Sonya......" = "Meow..." - Cat in Mercenary fortress. No, it's not about Sonya Schulen, suggest it and I will smack you.

VD05 000089B0 "Please accept the job." = "Please leave now." - Guy in front of Shu's house after first meeting.
VD19 00007AF0

VI01 00007180 "During the battle, both Silverburg and General Kiba were mortally wounded..." = "During the battle, General Kiba was also..." - Famous Leon died debacle.
VI08 0000AF30
VI09 00000930
VI10 00003D80
VI14 00000D60

VC24 00007EB0 "I guess I can't live up to your high opinion of me. Now... = "Nevertheless, that wish of yours is something that can't be realized. However... - Peace conference correction.
               If you refuse those bows will all sing in unison."            I wonder, if we refuse will those bows all weep as one?"
VC11 00004EB0
VC10 00004D50

VJ14 00001D70 But anyway, you forgot the rule #1 in 'the book'. Don't put yourself in danger... = How could someone like you come up with such a poor plan, risking your own life like this... - Leon vs. Shu fix
VJ15 00001AE0

VJ14 00001DC0 I had to throw away 'the book'. You read it too many times... = There was no way I could have beaten you through strategy alone, so I had to bet my life. - Still Leon vs. Shu
VJ15 00001B30

VE04 0000F090 (HUH?) = "Eh? What? What is??? Huh? What???" - Calling Viki cute elicits ditzy response.

VE01 000067D0 "You say you were delayed by the war?" = "They were kept home, cause of the war, you know?" - Flik/Emilia correction.
VE06 00009640
VE07 00009100
VE13 00007A20
VE16 00006060

VC25 000015A0 Priest Sasarai to = Priest Hikusaak to - Reference error in script, Hikusaak "gifted" the Beast Rune.
VC27 000029E0

VG04 0000A220 Farena Queendom = Falena Queendom - Obvious
VG06 000055C0
VG07 00007630
VG16 00009620

VG13 00006D80 He's also after Neclord = This person's also after Neclord - It's supposed to be ambigous that Kahn's talking about Sierra, and "he" is very wrong either way.
VG03 00003CD0

VG13 00006DC0 I was still after him = I was still after this person - see previous
VG03 00003D20

VG13 00006EC0 be sure not to make him angry = be sure to be courteous - see previous
VG03 00003E10

WAR09 000AA240 "No... How could my True Rune fail me..." = "By the power of my True..." - Sasarai escapes Luc correction
WAR08 000A9B60

TANTEI 00016780 an Ebony Moon Knight = a Black Moon Warrior - No such thing as Ebony Moon Knights.

TANTEI 000167B0 a Royal Knight in Falena = a Queen's Knight in Falena - Courtesy of Suikoden V it should be Queen's Knight.


That's what I can remember without playing through the game again but if you can apply those changes I'll be happy to beta test it for you and write down any errors I catch.

I'll get back on the untranslated lines.
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Pyriel
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Re: Bug Fixes

Postby Pyriel » Fri Jul 08, 2011 4:32 pm

I'm not at all shocked that the "Minos" was originally "Gozu". "Minos" sort of works, but it's like creating a muscle-bound, hulking dude dressed in a lion skin, and calling it "Amphitryon" because the same enemy, with two colors changed, appears as "Hercules" later. Or, to be a bit more contemporary, calling a guy in blue tights and a cape "Johnathan Kent".

I never noticed that cat that says "Sonya" before my latest play-through. I meant to ask what it said in the Japanese version. That's the kind of thing I would have tried to start a hoax about, if I'd seen it 10 years ago.

That "please accept the job" line was also on my list. I assume that the Japanese implies something more along the lines of "please accept the situation, and get lost". I think that guy's stuck there for the rest of the game, so even that doesn't make complete sense. I checked back a time or two after seeing it, thinking that it might be him using dialog from later events, but he just stands there talking about a job long after Shu joins you. Glancing through the walk-through, there's not even a side quest that might involve him.

I sort of like the "book" lines between Shu and Leon. They mean essentially the same thing as your adjustments. The only reason I can see for anyone objecting is that they don't think those characters should be in the "with dry-cool wit like that, I could be an action star" mold.

I have a couple of others that I'll be adjusting, mostly for grammatical and spelling issues ("to" vs. "too" issues and the like).

I'm looking into the music on war battles right now. Can anyone tell me if the first battle outside of Muse counts? It's the one where you're just trying to delay Solon Jhee, and it lasts maybe 15 turns, ending the round after the Matilda Knights are ordered to withdraw. I just happened to notice that there is no music, and started using it as a basis for comparison.

My hopes aren't high for fixing this. The PSX handles audio in a way that's unfamiliar to me, and that's notoriously difficult to deal with unless you have the Sony tools and SDK. Just looking at disassembled binaries, it's difficult to tell what's going on. I had to jump right from high-level stuff that controls BGM volume to very low-level CD operations, since the intermediate levels are just an impenetrable fog without some idea how Konami decided to handle audio. I may figure something out, or it may beat me. It may also turn out that it's something broken so badly that there was never any hope of anyone outside Konami fixing it.

Edit: What it looks like is that they set the Channel to 0 at some point, which I think is invalid, and then ADPCM playback gets shut off when the hardware throws a fit. If I'm right, the question is, "can I fix it?"

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Raww Le Klueze
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Re: Bug Fixes

Postby Raww Le Klueze » Sat Jul 09, 2011 1:57 am

I assume that the Japanese implies something more along the lines of "please accept the situation, and get lost".

Nah, the line can translate two ways, either "Please accept the job" or "Please leave now", but because the translators worked without context they had to pick one and they probably thought the first one made more sense in a RPG. Lack of context is the reason for most of the gaffes really.

I sort of like the "book" lines between Shu and Leon. They mean essentially the same thing as your adjustments.

Problem is, people simply don't get the metaphore. We've had 100's if not 1000's of topics over the years wondering what book they're talking about. I never had trouble understanding it myself, but apparently people have never heard of things like "oldest trick in the book" so they think it's an actual book.

There's also an inference problem where Shu's line is rather suggesting that Leon is not a great strategist at all but just uses tried and true tactics, which isn't true, while the Japanese version has him admitting that Leon is the greater strategist and he can only beat him by risking his own life.

I'm looking into the music on war battles right now. Can anyone tell me if the first battle outside of Muse counts? It's the one where you're just trying to delay Solon Jhee, and it lasts maybe 15 turns, ending the round after the Matilda Knights are ordered to withdraw. I just happened to notice that there is no music, and started using it as a basis for comparison.

Yeah, it's supposed to have music. But out of curiosity, couldn't you just compare it to the PAL version to see how they fixed it?

Untranslated lines:

Code: Select all

VJ16 5BC0 through 5BE0
DF7D677DE7E7 = "Bad idea!!
546D5A5E7D677DE7E7E7E7 = That's a bad idea!!!!
5771584B49707CE7E7E7E7E7 = You're going home!!!!!
0138012E014301E67D7CE7E7E7E0 = That's the Captain's order!!!"

VJ16 5130
DF028E4D7CE3E3E3E3E3E3E3E3E3E0 = "Let's go........."
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Re: Bug Fixes

Postby eldrasidar » Sat Jul 09, 2011 2:58 am

couple phrasing issues, attempts to make them sound more colloquially english:

the leon/shu discussion:
Leon: But anyway, you forgot the first rule in 'the book:' Don't put yourself in danger...
Shu: I had to throw away 'the book.' You read it too many times...

I think the book part makes sense regardless of whether you get the metaphor part or not. Apple chides Caesar for quoting Leon's writings in Suikoden 3, so we know Leon actually did have a book on strategy, so Leon and Shu could actually be talking about his actual book on strategy just as much as they could be using the metaphor. Either way it works. I don't think Shu's line is suggesting that Leon isn't a good strategist, just that he couldn't win by using leon's strategies against him, so he had to make up his own strategies instead.

Sasarai/Hikusaak
I know Sasarai is a Bishop and Hikusaak is the High Priest(Archbishop?) of Harmonia, so neither of them are just priests, besides which, priest by itself is not used as a title, it's just a generic term for a male member of an ecclesiastical order at any level.

Kahn lines:
They're also after Neclord
I was still after them
be sure not to make them angry

they/them/their is how most english speakers now create the non-gendered third person pronoun. Although textbooks will still tell you to use he or she/him or her/his or hers, even most academic work uses they/them/their now for both the singular third person non-gendered pronoun and the third person plural, in the same way that you/your works as both the singular and plural second person pronoun. It saves space, and get's rid of awkward phrasings.

I wouldn't worry too much about the ebony moon knight reference, since it's the only reference to the group in the entire series, it really doesn't make a difference whether it's name is exactly right or not as there's nothing to compare it to.

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Raww Le Klueze
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Re: Bug Fixes

Postby Raww Le Klueze » Sat Jul 09, 2011 3:23 am

The trading tips are supposed to be in the UWASA1 and UWASA2 bin files (which was bleeding obvious now that I think about it), between 0950 and 1CA0 in UWASA1, but there's way too much in it to post here so I'm not sure how to solve that.
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