Elemental Attributes & Status Effects (Enemies) / Bestiary

If you are stuck in the Dunan Unification Wars; or wish for more details on the gameplay systems, this is the place.
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Celes
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Re: Elemental Attributes & Status Effects (Enemies)

Post by Celes »

Affinities

Speaking of it, I tried to determine which affinities are considered for those spells. The locale Rune Affinity Guide lists a column "Blue Gate" which is obviously humbug. While Open Gate is determined by fire and King's Road by lightning, all the non-elemental spells seem to use the same affinity as water, while water is used for healing spells also. Riou (rank C) does 150 DMG with Set! while Viki and Makumaku (both E) do 180 DMG. Gantetsu (B) does 180 as well. Same bonuses apply to Blue Gate 3rd and 4th spell. That makes Luc, the only one with Water A and free head slot the best Blue Gate user.
Most likely this goes for Black Sword also, but it is irrelevant due to the fact Jowy has Water C.

If you all agree, I will update the affinity guide accordingly.

Note: Because Tir is the only Soul Eater user with Darkness A, you can never see the real DMG of Black Shadow (500) and Judgement (1500) listed in their descriptions, so they will always have a base of 700 and 2100 :)

Inconsistent usage of elements throughout the series
While trying to list the corresponding elements of the runes for all games, I noticed a lot of changes:

S1:
5 Elements
Holy (Resurrection)
Soul Eater (combined use for "no instant death" and "no instant death and attack DMG", although not much used except for Neclord)

S2:
5 Elements
Holy (Resurrection rune)
Darkness (Darkness rune & Soul Eater)
Bright Shield
Non-elemental

S3:
5 Elements
Pale Gate (has its own skill, dunno about the actual DMG whether it's elemental or has a special element)
Blinking ?? (Set! - unknown, perhaps non-elemental)
Shield (defensive only)
Sword (defensive only)

no darkness, no holy

S4:
5 Elements
Punishment (Eternal Ordeal, Double-Edged Sword, Everlasting Mercy)
Soul Eater (all spells)
Blinking (for Set! exclusive)

Moreover, S4 enemies have resi. vs. Sleep, Instant Death, Charm and Teleport. So we have two values for Blinking rune exclusive, which can only be used by Viki here :shock: . In addition, Teleport and Instant Death is handled by it's own.

S5:
5 Elements
Sun (Twilight rune: Setting Sun, Silent Afterglow, Vermillion Sky & Dawn rune: First Ray, Crimson Sky)
Star (Star rune: Twinkling Star, Comet, Meteor Shower)
Holy (Resurrection rune: Scolding, Charm Arrow)
Darkness (Condemnation rune: Black Shiver, Endless Ordeal, Inevitable Blade)
Sound (DoReMi rune: Concerto)

Any idea why every character has his own Sun and Sound affinity?
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Pyriel
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Re: Elemental Attributes & Status Effects (Enemies)

Post by Pyriel »

If the rune affinities in Suikoden V are actually stored on the character, and aren't just a separate array of indeterminate length, that would be why everyone has affinities even for runes they can't use: simply the need for a reusable data structure. Now, if your question is, "why did they give everyone a specific value for that affinity?", well, you'd have to ask Konami that. Knowing the fan-base for this series, I would have just randomly generated values to mess with you, if I worked there.

By the way, I edited a bunch of things in my last post, not realizing you had already replied before I started adding new information to it.
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Celes
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Re: Elemental Attributes & Status Effects (Enemies)

Post by Celes »

Pyriel wrote:If you tell me the schema, I can change the program to write a file of INSERT statements, or create something formatted that you can bulk insert. (Uh...IIRC mysql can do bulk inserts; I'll have to double-check.) I can also sort the list by area (as "area" is currently) and enemy name, if that will make it easier.
Would be a huge help!

Here is the current schema:
http://www.suikosource.com/celes/gamepl ... iary-2.odt

EDIT: Of course, monster-id is not NULL by default. Don't know why the export has it listed this way. It's auto increment.

monster_id: unique, used for sorting by appaerance also
type_id: 1 normal, 2 boss - used for sorting
name: as it appears ingame (Highlands)
subname: any additional info (2nd fight, sword, ...) - ignore this one, I will add those
location: I can add those as well
img: I believe we have already most of the sprites, I will add the url afterwards

I can correct the potch values as well.
If it's not silence, then I have no idea what else it could be. I'm open to suggestions.
Same here. However, we can alter this if anything comes to my mind.
One thing that bothers me is every time the strategy guide lists "Immune to all magic" it acutally includes the stat we assumed to be silence. That's why I expected it to be some type magic resi in the first place.
It was just an assumption on my part that adding water-based runes and such to weapons would change the attack element. I think I erroneously believed that this game had the original's rune-piece attachment option, along with attaching a full rune. Even then, I completely forgot that attaching water anything just heals you each round.
Perhaps they do... I must admit I'm not sure anymore. Rune pieces in S1 changed the element plus gave additional bonuses like stats, regen or DMG+. I will test this.
Perhaps we find the initial weapon element - if there is any - in a save state.
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Pyriel
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Re: Elemental Attributes & Status Effects (Enemies)

Post by Pyriel »

Hmmm...Could it be the White Saint Rune? I didn't know about that one, and didn't test it. I wonder if I can safely put it on Riou.

Edit: Yes, to my wondering. No, to my question. White Saint is all vs. Lightning resistance. What a gyp.

Edit 2: You know what, maybe we're looking at this the wrong way. The Storm Warning spell reflects magic, which I assume means "reflect" in the traditional sense of, "sends back to caster, causing damage". Neclord at least has his own special "rune", with its own spell. Possibly this resistance gives immunity to reflected magic in general, or the specific element of that attack, which I assume is granted by the Blue Moon Rune. Several bosses with unique, magical attacks may just have their spells lumped under a "boss" element, and this resistance exists strictly to prevent them being damaged by its reflection.

On an semi-related note, the Blue Drop rune is tested vs. Knock Down resistance...I would have guessed Darkness, Poison, and/or Water before that.
Last edited by Pyriel on Wed Jun 24, 2009 10:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Celes
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Re: Elemental Attributes & Status Effects (Enemies)

Post by Celes »

Some tests:

White Saint: all lightning
Shining Wind: all wind
Blue Drop: all water (yay!)

Water, Wind and Earth Runes embedded on weapons do not change the DMG. Fought Sirens (water inv.) with water runes on the weapon, no change.
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Pyriel
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Re: Elemental Attributes & Status Effects (Enemies)

Post by Pyriel »

Are you talking affinities or resistances for the Blue Drop? It still caused damage with water set to invulnerable in my test. It was only when I tweaked Knock Down to invulnerable that it missed. Then again, perhaps the level of the attack matters. My tests had it locked at level 3.
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Celes
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Re: Elemental Attributes & Status Effects (Enemies)

Post by Celes »

Resistances. With Water Inv, it always missed (tried over 20 times). With Water None or Strong, it missed randomly. It's not even supposed to knockdown, is it? :?:

As soon as you unlock your 3rd spell, it is locked on that level, even if you consumed all you lv3 MP. Without cheating or recruiting the Kraken at a ridiculous low lv, I assume its almost impossible to see the lv1 and 2 commands.
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Pyriel
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Re: Elemental Attributes & Status Effects (Enemies)

Post by Pyriel »

Well, I don't have any saves later in the game than right after reaching Ryube. I just edit the runes onto Riou, and hope they don't crash. He actually turns into an octopus when I use this rune.

I just checked again. I must have tweaked the wrong address when I was checking water, because it does indeed resist the spell. Knockdown resistance works as well. No idea why.
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Celes
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Re: Elemental Attributes & Status Effects (Enemies)

Post by Celes »

Pyriel wrote:Possibly this resistance gives immunity to reflected magic in general, or the specific element of that attack
Either assumption could be right. At least S4 has a "magic reflect" value for each enemy.


Fire and Lightning Runes on the weapon change the whole DMG to that element, not only the extra DMG (25% & 50% for high elemental). Water, Wind and Earth on the other hand give only the stat bonuses.

Some more errors:
Thunder Runner does 100 DMG for both the Lightning and Thunder Rune (game says 120).
Pale Palace does 400 DMG (game says 500).
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Pyriel
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Re: Elemental Attributes & Status Effects (Enemies)

Post by Pyriel »

Wow, the site went down hard I guess.

http://www.herrvillain.com/codebreaker/ ... squery.txt

There's the file with the data formatted as INSERTs. I found it easier to do them as individual statements, so I could fix issues, like odd tick marks in some of the untranslated enemy names, without having to comb through a whole file. I loaded this into a table identical to yours without issue, so it should be ok. The list is also sorted by area and enemy name now.

I went ahead and set the area, rather than NULLing, even though the automatic value won't be the final. I figured it would make it easier to do updates to entire groups, but let me know if you want that set to NULL. I also changed the drop chances so that the fractional part doesn't display when unnecessary. I did that mainly to keep 100.00 from overflowing the column as you defined it. I can manipulate the values further if you want any rounding done.

There are 428 unique enemy definitions in the files.
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Celes
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Re: Elemental Attributes & Status Effects (Enemies)

Post by Celes »

Thanks a lot :) Saves me a whole lot of typing.

Some minor corrections (but I already replaced them in the output file):
  • gameplay_s2_bestiary -> gameplay_S2_bestiary
  • I put a space between the item name and the quantity (such as Medicinex3 -> Medicine x3)
  • Removed the x1 when there is no stack possible (e.g. Boulder Set x1)
  • Added a " Rune" for all rune crystals


I will add the .gif and appropriate names of the locations afterwards.

Since they are listed for each area seperately, many of them are listed twice while others are not ingame at all. Have to filter them out as well.

"Silence" is still questionable. Most of the Zombies have it set to "Strong" without being able to cast any spells.
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Celes
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Re: Elemental Attributes & Status Effects (Enemies)

Post by Celes »

While browsing the enemy list within the game in order to create a full table, I noticed some interesting things so far:

- A full area with 4 new enemies: "F-Squirrel" (a weaker version of the "Flyer" as encountered near South Window), "Salamander" (a stronger version of the one in Sindar Ruins), "Shadow" (a weaker version of the one in Two River Sewers) and "Zomlick" (dunno about that, perhaps another type of the Ghost Slug). Notice that there are several enemies with the same name in different areas.
According to their levels, it was meant to be somewhere after the Sindar Ruins and before South Window area.
Shadow drops Wing Ornament and Sun Badge, Zomlick a Steel Shield. The rest is common loot.

- There is a second version of Rowd in the Highland Garrison Recon. The mission where you have to travel in the Muse-Matilda forest, spying for Jess. Perhaps there should be a fight when he detects you. He has the same stats as in Kyaro, but drops more potch.

- The most interesting thing, however, is the Tenzan Pass at the end of the game. I always wondered why no enemy drops Cyclone Rune, because all the other high elemental runes can be looted by enemies. Here he is: An enemy with Cyclone Rune as a very rare loot (like the other <1%).
The names are not translated and therefor glitched. We encounter a stronger version of Minotaurus and a stronger version of Magus here. The third enemy seems to be a stronger type of the Chimera (L'Renouille castle) due to the fact it has the same stats, just a little bit stronger. Plus, the cyclone rune would fit for this enemy. No matter how long I wander on Tenzan Pass, I never encounter this enemy, yet he is on that area...
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Celes
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Re: Elemental Attributes & Status Effects (Enemies)

Post by Celes »

Whew :D The bestiary is complete.
  • The list was cut nearly by half, as many of the entries were present in multiple locations/screens and therefor multiple times in the code (final number: 218)
  • Removed all enemies you cannot encounter at all (I'm still not sure about Chimera on Tenzan Pass, need some testing though...)
  • Added all the names of the locations ingame (was a HELL of work sorting dozens of Highlands, Commanders and Zombies to their corresponding areas and removing their copies :evil: )
  • Sorted the listed by the order of appearance
  • Added all the .gifs
  • Added some subnames (e.g. "bow", "1st fight", ...)
  • Multiplied all boss' potch rewards by 10
  • Added some side notes for optional bosses and other things
Some more notes:
  • Some enemies are still listed multiple times (e.g. "CutRabbit", "BonBon", ...). That is, if their stats or loot tables are slightly changed when they appear in different areas. Sometimes, it's just a minor detail but I considered it as a different enemy then.
  • "Karayans" and "DoReMi Elves", on the other hand, seem to vary only in their color.
  • If someone has ever encountered F-Squirrel, Zomlick, Rowd (2nd fight) or Chimera on Tenzan Pass, please let me know.
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Re: Elemental Attributes & Status Effects (Enemies) / Bestiary

Post by BadPotato »

wahh, hola I'm completly speechless by your hardwork!

there could be black sword and blinking rune to add... but I think the actual list look good :P

seriously good job!
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Pyriel
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Re: Elemental Attributes & Status Effects (Enemies)

Post by Pyriel »

I can check the Chimera enemy to see if it occurs in any of the encounter tables. If it doesn't, I can always force the game to put it in one and see what happens.

Edit: There is one set of encounters for that area, consisting of 6 different enemy groups (10 groups are indicated, but a few are redundant pointers). There are 5 groups that are made up wholly of a single type of one of the other two enemies, and one mixed group. None of them have third enemy, which has a name that converts to "4<something><something>". I don't even see a "dead" set of encounter data that includes it. I'll have to try editing him into a couple of the groups when I reach that area.
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