[Discussion] Ways to make Suikoden II more challenging

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Azazel

Re: [Discussion] Ways to make Suikoden II more challenging

Postby Azazel » Thu Jan 27, 2011 3:43 pm

I am new to the series but always like to set myself up with a challenge while still having a normal playthough. What I am doing is beating all 5 games for the first time right now and marking down my end boss parties for each one. My plan is to play through them again (at least II, III and V) with two simple rules.

1) No guides! I am using them for my first playthough but just to help with character recruitment to get the good endings to allow me to carry over my data. The second time will have none, no looking how to recruit anybody, where to get certain items, etc.

2) Restricted characters. As I said, I mark down who I beat the game with my first time. The second time I play through those characters are barred from use (outside of required story events). This might not seem like much but after (hopefully) multiple play throughs I'll have a more and more depleted roster of people I can use. I can however use a character that is required to recruit someone else.

Example:

Suikoden 1: Hero, Flik, Viktor, Humphrey, Kwanda and Fukien are now banned from non-story events (unforunately Flik and Viktor are required for the boss, so I just cant use them in normal parties).

Suikoden IV: Hero, Ted, Dario and Jewel

Suikoden V: Hero, Miakis, Shoon, Killey, Viki, Goesch; Lyon, Lorelai, Logg, Lun, Faylen, Jeane; Georg, Zweig, Zegai, Zerease, Cathari and Galleon.

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jin022
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Re: [Discussion] Ways to make Suikoden II more challenging

Postby jin022 » Wed Feb 23, 2011 2:27 pm

try to make solo hero game. dont upgrade items and add runes. no healing allowed except hero's rune. no saving

Jowy Atreides
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Re: [Discussion] Ways to make Suikoden II more challenging

Postby Jowy Atreides » Wed Feb 23, 2011 6:03 pm

No saving would in actuality just add many many hours of playtime and frustration, not challenge.

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ninjaluc79
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Re: [Discussion] Ways to make Suikoden II more challenging

Postby ninjaluc79 » Mon Mar 07, 2011 1:01 am

Azazel wrote:I am new to the series but always like to set myself up with a challenge while still having a normal playthough. What I am doing is beating all 5 games for the first time right now and marking down my end boss parties for each one. My plan is to play through them again (at least II, III and V) with two simple rules.

1) No guides! I am using them for my first playthough but just to help with character recruitment to get the good endings to allow me to carry over my data. The second time will have none, no looking how to recruit anybody, where to get certain items, etc.

2) Restricted characters. As I said, I mark down who I beat the game with my first time. The second time I play through those characters are barred from use (outside of required story events). This might not seem like much but after (hopefully) multiple play throughs I'll have a more and more depleted roster of people I can use. I can however use a character that is required to recruit someone else.

Example:

Suikoden 1: Hero, Flik, Viktor, Humphrey, Kwanda and Fukien are now banned from non-story events (unforunately Flik and Viktor are required for the boss, so I just cant use them in normal parties).

Suikoden IV: Hero, Ted, Dario and Jewel

Suikoden V: Hero, Miakis, Shoon, Killey, Viki, Goesch; Lyon, Lorelai, Logg, Lun, Faylen, Jeane; Georg, Zweig, Zegai, Zerease, Cathari and Galleon.


Okay, for the Suikoden 2 forced characters, in order of appearance:

Hero, Jowy Atreides (this is the staff one, you may want to cheat him in), Nanami (only until Rockaxe unless you cheat), Eilie, Rina, Bolgan, Flik, Viktor, Zamza, Freed Y, Kahn, Miklotov, Humphrey, Futch, Chaco, Sheena, Sierra, and Jowy Blight (the sword one).
It's not all about knowledge, but it helps.

eldrasidar
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Re: [Discussion] Ways to make Suikoden II more challenging

Postby eldrasidar » Mon Mar 07, 2011 9:32 am

Part 1 isn't really a challenge, it's like saying you aren't going to have a driving instructor in your car after you get your license.

For Part 2, Are you counting support characters(for 3,4,5)?

this sounds like it would work better as a challenge for 1, 2 and 4, where you have the least number of required characters to use throughout the game(less than 20 in each case), than 3 or 5, where you are more often forced to use particular party members(37+ characters), and there are less combat characters, because of the advent of support characters(technically 4 has the least combat characters, but it also shrunk the party size by a third, and the least number of required characters). Of course, for all of them, it becomes less of a challenge when you consider that most of the best characters are forced on you.

Azazel

Re: [Discussion] Ways to make Suikoden II more challenging

Postby Azazel » Mon Mar 07, 2011 2:08 pm

Maybe I just didn't explain it the right way. What I am doing is when I use someone end game they are banned as optional characters. So in a part where I have to use say Kahn, I do, but when he is recruited I am not allowed to use him at all. Lets use 5 as an example.

Hero and Lyon since they are almost always required would be used normally. If I have the option to not use Lyon then I cannot use her. The other story line characters (Miakis, Georg, Lorelai, Logg, Lun, Zweig, Shoon, etc) can only be used when required for the story line. If they are on my team but not forced then they are not allowed to be used. So for say Zweig, I can use him at the beginning since I have to, but once that is done with I can either not recruit him at all, or recruit him just for his training skill and not fight with him at all after that. For someone like Cathari I can just skip altogether. Jeane could only be used to recruit other characters like Eresh. Finally for someone like Logg I use when needed (prison break, etc). But never when he isn't forced and not for the end dungeon.

When I get to the end dungeon I will have to use Lyon, Georg and Zweig (although since I couldn't level them up outside forced parts they might be weaker). and the other 14 would be from who I didn't use before.

For war battles its the same thing, the banned characters are not allowed to be put into squads (or put them all in one squad and just do not use them).

This might not be great for other people, but its something I'm going to try, mostly so I end up using all the characters at some point.

Hopefully that makes more sense.

Desro
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Re: [Discussion] Ways to make Suikoden II more challenging

Postby Desro » Fri May 13, 2011 8:39 pm

What I did to increase difficulty was mostly a system of severely limited weapon sharpening. Say if a shop allows sharpening up to level 8; I wouldn't allow anyone to sharpen up all the way (or even close to that). My weaker characters could sharpen a bit more, while my main character stayed at weapon level 1 for a long time. I planned ahead and set max weapon levels for characters based on their strength and weapon power, maxing everyone between 8 and 12. Characters like Filk and Sheena only got to sharpen their weapon to 9, while characters like Hix and Vincent were allowed to sharpened to 12. Exceptions were Gantetsu who I sharpened to 14 (to recruit Genshu), and Gijimu who joins with weapon level 13. My main character and Nanami were only allowed up sharpen up to level 6. These sharpening would happen over time slowly, rather than sharpening up to max right away.

The weapon sharpening method allowed me to vary the cast against the norm. Characters like Hanna, Millie, Hix, Vincent, and Tai Ho were allowed a slightly higher weapon level to make them stand out a bit more. Viktor, Flik, Humphrey, LC Chan, Oulan and other power characters were given stricter limits.

At Armor shops, I only purchased one of each item. I had to keep old obsolete equipment in circulation for much longer. This hurt my defenses some, and I actually had to make use of all of my healing options.

I also banned overpowering runes such as the Fury, Double-Strike, Friendship, and Kindness runes. I also didn't allow myself to pair the Magic Drain rune with a Healing Rune. I also am following a rule that Rune set ups are pre-determined and once a character equips a rune it is considered fixed (can't take it off to put a situationally better rune on later).

Overall, random encounters are still quite manageable, but a tad more difficult. Bosses last quite a bit longer, and are a little more enthralling. They still aren't as difficult as I would hope, mages can still rip threw most bosses without strong weapons. Duels are no longer a complete joke, and they can actually be quite hard. I haven't finished, so I don't actually know if a level 6 weapon will allow the hero to beat all the duels.

I started this playthough awhile back and it was rather enjoyable, but I ended up being busy and never got to finish. I made it about halfway and am going to start playing it again. I'd recommend it, but think it works better if things are planned out a bit ahead of time to make sure you end up with a balanced cast (considering thing like Claw users shouldn't be allowed to sharpen up to level 11, because they gain +57 in attack by doing so and become rather powerful).

Hiroaki
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Re: [Discussion] Ways to make Suikoden II more challenging

Postby Hiroaki » Fri Dec 09, 2011 3:35 am

Is it possible to mod a game parameter somehow?
I really wish Neclord was stronger than the original... -.-

death_to_sanchez
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Re: [Discussion] Ways to make Suikoden II more challenging

Postby death_to_sanchez » Fri Dec 09, 2011 8:52 am

You could only use characters with very low max strength stats (Millie, Tuta etc.) along with the "no runes" thing.
I'm not sure which characters have the worst stats but I'm sure there's a table or chart somewhere on this site of characters with the highest and lowest base/max stats, and the rule could be you're only allowed to use characters in the bottom 15 or so?

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Re: [Discussion] Ways to make Suikoden II more challenging

Postby Antimatzist » Fri Dec 09, 2011 9:48 am

Hiroaki wrote:Is it possible to mod a game parameter somehow?
I really wish Neclord was stronger than the original... -.-

It would be cool if someone would/could create something like a "Hard Suikoden II" with stronger enemies etc. I know someone has done this for Secret of Mana, but he hasn't just changed enemy stats but also items I think along with bug fixes.

Ellyos
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Re: [Discussion] Ways to make Suikoden II more challenging

Postby Ellyos » Fri Dec 09, 2011 10:47 am

Well I tried to do that 2 years ago with Celes on Suikoden I, but we encountered many issues. The last one was where are coded initial gear because unremovable gear caused an imbalance after it is modified.
That and it was long and it took us too much time :P
Suikoden II being twice longer, it would be a pain ^^

Vermillion.Haze
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Re: [Discussion] Ways to make Suikoden II more challenging

Postby Vermillion.Haze » Thu Dec 22, 2011 6:39 am

The best tip to make any of the suikoden games harder is to avoid grinding levels. Know the fastest route to the boss in all the dungeons, try to remain 3-4 levels below where the game tries to force you to be. Ive also tried a Suikoden I theme where I only attach one rune on every character I recruit.

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ninjaluc79
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Re: [Discussion] Ways to make Suikoden II more challenging

Postby ninjaluc79 » Fri Dec 30, 2011 12:22 am

Random party members for every mission starting from your first recruitment drive up to L'Renouille. You won't have problems randomizing your party for Sindar Ruins as the game will do that for you. No problems at North Window too since you have a fixed party. You only need to pick party members at random for the rest of the missions such as Highland Recon, Greenhill Rescue Mission, Rockaxe Liberation, etc.
It's not all about knowledge, but it helps.

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gildedtalon
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Re: [Discussion] Ways to make Suikoden II more challenging

Postby gildedtalon » Sun Jan 01, 2012 8:20 pm

Complete the game without saving. Not many can do this
My GameFAQs account now is SheenavsKilley
I already closed gildedtalon, my old account

Flufflez
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Re: [Discussion] Ways to make Suikoden II more challenging

Postby Flufflez » Sun Jan 01, 2012 9:47 pm

that's actually pretty easy since you can just leave your console on while you sleep if you can't do it in one sitting. more challenging would be to get all 108 and finish clive quest without use of matilda glitch w/o saving


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