[Guide]Stat Growth rates

If you are stuck in the Dunan Unification Wars; or wish for more details on the gameplay systems, this is the place.
Magus Eternal
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[Guide]Stat Growth rates

Postby Magus Eternal » Thu Jan 15, 2009 2:11 am

I have been testing the characters stat growth and I have found that the stat growth listed on the main site with a starting stat of 12 and a final range of 88-186 has two different growth rates. While the range of the stats is indeed the same, the final stat will be far different (At level 99 one would end up around 145-155 and the other around 125-135). Of course this is based on just general leveling up and not control leveling (Where you maximize each level up). Also the stat growth in Suikoden II is virtually identical to Suikoden III (It may be off by a couple of points or so because of the starting and stopping poing of the ranges is slightly different). The only real exception is with HP which is very different between the games (Suikoden II is higher).

For example Amada has the same growth range in TEC & LUCK however his LUCK stat will almost always be higher than his TEC stat (Usually higher by 20 points or so). And this isn't just based on the random factor either.

In Suikoden III the 03 and 04 stats had the same growth range, but the percent was different (So 04 was higher than 03). The same also applies in this game. Also their are 9 major stat growths in this game which is the same as Suikoden III. I will list to show the comparison.

00 Stat Suikoden III
10 Starting (LV 99 Range 10-108)

00 Stat Suikoden II
10 Starting (LV 99 Range 10-108)

01 Stat Suikoden III
11 Starting (LV 99 Range 30-128)

01 Stat Suikoden II
11 Starting (LV 99 Range 29-127)

02 Stat Suikoden III
11 Starting (LV 99 Range 70-168)

02 Stat Suikoden II
11 Starting (LV 99 Range 69-167)

03 Stat Suikoden III
12 Starting (LV 99 Range 90-188)

03 Stat Suikoden II
12 Starting (LV 99 Range 88-186)

04 Stat Suikoden III
12 Starting (LV 99 Range 90-188)

04 Stat Suikoden III
12 Starting (LV 99 Range 88-186)

05 Stat Suikoden III
13 Starting (LV 99 Range 91-189)

05 Stat Suikoden II
13 Starting (LV 99 Range 89-187)

06 Stat Suikoden III
13 Starting (LV 99 Range 150-248)

06 Stat Suikoden II
13 Starting (LV 99 Range 147-245)

07 Stat Suikoden III
14 Starting (LV 99 Range 151-248)

07 Stat Suikoden II
14 Starting (LV 99 Range 148-246)

08 Stat Suikoden III
14 Starting (LV 99 Range 170-255)

08 Stat Suikoden II
14 Starting (LV 99 Range 166-255)


As you can see the lower stats are identical and the higher ones are only off by at most 4 points. Now the reason I brought this up is because I was wondering if anyone would be interested if I posted which characters have a 03 stat and which ones have 04 (I got in the habit of referring to the stats by those numbers because of Suikoden III). That way it would represent the difference the two stats are. Also the percentage growth I am almost positive is the same as Suikoden III (With only the starting and stopping points being different). I discovered this when I was trying to figure out the Monster's and Animal's stats.

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Celes
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Re: Character's Stats

Postby Celes » Thu Jan 15, 2009 10:20 am

Great findings!

Perhaps the growth rate percentages are similar to those in S3 as well?

Magus Eternal
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Re: Character's Stats

Postby Magus Eternal » Thu Jan 15, 2009 7:05 pm

That is what I was thinking. Aside from HP the stats seem to end up around the same amount (With some randomness of course).

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Re: [Guide]Stat Growth rates

Postby KFCrispy » Mon Sep 20, 2010 10:21 am

i've made this a sticky. we don't have the actual growth rates of each character and it would certainly be great if someone had it. i'm thinking a possible way of figuring them out is to record everyone's stats at level 99 several times... (use a cheat device to recruit everyone early and after-battle EXP modifier so they shoot to 99)

IczR1 applied the growth rates to for his ranking table (viewtopic.php?f=9&t=4761)... so i might go over that.

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Re: [Guide]Stat Growth rates

Postby ninjaluc79 » Thu Sep 23, 2010 9:29 am

I only have 2 questions:

1. Can I post here the Level 60 stats of my characters from my save file? We can figure out the growth rates from there.
2. I'm not that into cheating, really, but for the sake of measurement, how can I edit the characters' recruitment status (I missed Clive in my recent save file, lol) and level so that I can also upload here the Level 99 stats?
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Re: [Guide]Stat Growth rates

Postby KFCrispy » Thu Sep 23, 2010 2:08 pm

go ahead and post the level 60 stats!
if you have code breaker or something that uses those codes, visit codetwink.com which has the recruitment codes.

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Re: [Guide]Stat Growth rates

Postby ninjaluc79 » Tue Oct 05, 2010 10:04 am

Ugh, man, I'm too lazy to level everyone up to 60. And I can't get the cheat codes to work with PEC, and I can't find a Codebreaker. T_T

By the way, I noticed that in a lot of my playthroughs, when Viktor joins my party early, he will always have 108 STR at Level 20... Don't remember the other stats though. I'm trying to recruit Clive in my new playthrough (because I missed him the last time), and here I'm currently taking the Highland espionage mission given by Jess, the aide of Anabelle, the Muse mayor. Maybe as soon as I get ahold of Viktor at the Cave of the Wind mission, I'll post his Level 20 stats. But as far as I know, he always had 108 STR everytime he joins you at Level 20.

EDIT: Using this modified version of the stat growth guide:


Growth Rate

00
Starting stat is 10
Level 01-19: 0-1 Usually increases by the higher amount; approximately 90%
Level 20-59: 0-1 Usually increases by the higher amount; approximately 60%
Level 60-99: 0-1

01
Starting stat is 11
Level 01-19: 1-2 Usually increases by the lower amount; approximately 75%
Level 20-59: 0-1 Usually increases by the higher amount; approximately 75%
Level 60-99: 0-1

02
Starting stat is 11
Level 01-19: 1-2 Usually increases by the higher amount; approximately 60%
Level 20-59: 1-2 Usually increases by the lower amount; approximately 90%
Level 60-99: 0-1

03
Starting stat is 12
Level 01-19: 2-3 Usually increases by the lower amount; approximately 90%
Level 20-59: 1-2 Usually increases by the lower amount; approximately 60%
Level 60-99: 0-1

04
Starting stat is 12
Level 01-19: 2-3 Usually increases by the higher amount; approximately 60%
Level 20-59: 1-2 Usually increases by the higher amount; approximately 60%
Level 60-99: 0-1

05
Starting stat is 13
Level 01-19: 2-3 Usually increases by the higher amount; approximately 90%
Level 20-59: 1-2 Usually increases by the higher amount; approximately 90%
Level 60-99: 0-1

06
Starting stat is 13
Level 01-19: 3-4 Usually increases by the lower amount; approximately 75%
Level 20-59: 2-3 Usually increases by the lower amount; approximately 75%
Level 60-99: 0-1

07
Starting stat is 14
Level 01-19: 3-4 Usually increases by the higher amount; approximately 60%
Level 20-59: 2-3 Usually increases by the higher amount; approximately 60%
Level 60-99: 0-1

08
Starting stat is 14
Level 01-19: 4-5 Usually increases by the lower amount; approximately 60%
Level 20-59: 2-3 Usually increases by the higher amount; approximately 60%
Level 60-99: 0-1

I have derived the following average values. The stats may deviate from the actual number since Suikoden employs a random stat increase per level.

Stat Growth - Average Stat
00 - 50
01 - 63
02 - 83
03 - 105
04 - 122
05 - 141
06 - 161
07 - 182
08 - 197

From this, I have deduced Riou's stat growth rates as follows:

STR - 06
TEC - 07
MAG - 05
SPD - 06
PROT - 04
MDEF - 05
LUCK - 07
HP - 05

I have noticed in the HP Growth Rates that there are also 8 main stat growth rates. Some people, animals, and beasts have HP modifiers which make them different from the others.

The beasts definitely have HP growth mods, but I'm not sure about the squirrels. Among the animals, only Shiro and the squirrels do not have an HP growth mod.

The HP Stat Growth rates are classified according to their average values rounded to the nearest multiple of 25. The actual values might deviate from the given values. Refer to the Suikoden 2 Stat Growth Guide for more details

Stat Growth - Starting HP - Lv 1-19 - Lv 20-59 - HP at Level 60
00 - 10 - 3-4 - 5-7 - 350
01 - 10 - 4-6 - 6-8 - 400
02 - 13 - 5-7 - 7-9 - 450
03 - 16 - 7-8 - 8-9 - 500
04 - 20 - 7-9 - 9-10 - 550
05 - 24 - 8-10 - 10-12 - 625
06 - 26 - 10-12 - 10-12 - 675
07 - 28 - 11-13 - 11-13 - 750
08 - 30 - 13-15 - 13-15 - 825

Character HP Growths

HP Growth 00
Tuta

HP Growth 01
Makumaku

HP Growth 02
Mekumeku
Mokumoku
Mukumuku

HP Growth 03
Chaco
Gabocha
Hoi
Luc
Meg
Millie
Nanami
Rina
Stallion
Viki

HP Growth 04
Futch
Gadget
Hai Yo
Hix
Killey
Kinnison
Koyu
Nina
Shilo
Shiro
Sid
Simone
Tengaar
Ayda
Camus
Clive
Eilie
Freed Y
Gantetsu
Gengen
Genshu
Jowy
Karen
Kasumi
Lorelai
Mazus
Mokumoku
Sasuke
Sheena
Tai Ho
Tomo
Tsai
Valeria
Vincent
Wakaba (Starting HP modifier *10)
Yoshino

HP Growth 05
Anita
Badeaux
Flik
Hanna
LC Chan (starting HP modifier *10)
Lo Wen
Miklotov
Mondo
Pesmerga
Zamza
McDohl
Riou

HP Growth 06
Bob
Hauser
Bolgan
Georg
Gijimu
Viktor

HP Growth 07
Amada
Humphrey
Oulan

HP Growth 08
Rikimaru
Last edited by ninjaluc79 on Fri Oct 15, 2010 9:43 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: [Guide]Stat Growth rates

Postby ninjaluc79 » Fri Oct 15, 2010 5:18 am

As you can see, most Suikoden II people have HP Growths between 03 and 05.
For each tier, one half of the people there have a higher chance of getting a lower number, while the other half have a higher chance of getting a higher number. That is why in the stats guide, we could see three values for a certain range.

For example, 04 has either 7-9 or 8-9 HP increase at Levels 1-19, but it turns out that Kinnison and Sheena are indeed in the same tier. It so happened that Kinnison did had a higher HP than Sheena, despite the latter getting more HP than the former in the early levels.

UPDATE

=============================
Estimated Values at Level 60
=============================

=============================
Stat Growth 00 - 45-60
Stat Growth 01 - 60-80
Stat Growth 02 - 80-95
Stat Growth 03 - 95-115
Stat Growth 04 - 115-135
Stat Growth 05 - 135-155
Stat Growth 06 - 155-170
Stat Growth 07 - 170-185
Stat Growth 08 - 185-200
=============================

UPDATE 2:

I'm almost done with the stat growth rates. I still have Clive and Valeria to analyze on. I have some of their stats at GameFAQs, problem is, the reviewers were so lame to not remove the stat-modifiying equipment from these people to obtain their raw stats, so I don't use them. Except for the animals' stats, because they can't wear armor. And no armor, no added stats.
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Re: [Guide]Stat Growth rates

Postby ninjaluc79 » Fri Oct 29, 2010 1:36 am

All right, ladies and gentlemen, here it is!

Suikoden 2 Stat Growth Rates

For everyone to know:

Stat 10 < Stat 01
Stat 09 ~ Stat 07 at higher levels
HP 11 < HP 00

To be honest, I had a hard time posting this one because the forums won't allow me to attach the .docx, .xlsx, and even .pdf versions of this one to my post. And the JPEG and HTML conversions were kinda messed up. So I have to convert this to PDF and post the URL here.

EDIT: I'm not sure about his TECH and MAG stats, though. The Suikosource's Official Suikoden 2 Character Stats Growth Guide states that McDohl has higher MAG than TECH. But in-game, it's the other way around. McDohl will always have around 230-240 TECH and 210-220 MAG, but I'm unsure if its without any stat-modifying equipment, such as the Master Garb (TECH+15 STR+15) and the Fire Emblem (STR+15). Base MAG is pretty easy to predict, even with Magic Rings since S2 MP DOES NOT change with MAG modification. It is solely based on the base MAG.

Level 99 Jowy will always have 9/8/5/3 MP, while Level 99 McDohl has a chance of getting 9/9/6/4 MP. It's weird that Jowy joins my Riou against Gorudo at Level 99 when he should be 5 levels higher. Normally, he has 9/7/4/2 MP at Level 60, but at Level 99 he always had 3 Level 4 MP with me. Not sure about the others though, but I never got Jowy to 4 Level 4's.

If Jowy and McDohl's MAG stats are the same, then McDohl's TECH and MAG growths are NOT 07 and 08 as stated in the official guide. Instead, it's TECH 08 and MAG 07. But then again, due to the effect of stat-enhancing items, his TECH stat may actually be 07.

UPDATE: Changed Luc's SPD stat from 05 to 06. My Level 60 Luc had 173 SPD with his permanent Speed Ring. This is why sometimes he beats SpeedRing-less Nanami in speed (she has 07 SPD), sometimes not.
And I still can't upload the docx file. So I have to convert it to PDF again. T_T
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Re: [Guide]Stat Growth rates

Postby Celes » Sun Oct 31, 2010 6:31 am

Wow! This is an awesome list :)

There are actually two versions of Jowy. The "King Jowy" that joins at the battle vs. Gorudo is a complete different char (technically).

Would you mind sharing this list with our website? I would love to do a html template for you, if you like to fill your data in it!

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Re: [Guide]Stat Growth rates

Postby ninjaluc79 » Tue Nov 02, 2010 7:27 am

CelesDestiny wrote:Wow! This is an awesome list :)

There are actually two versions of Jowy. The "King Jowy" that joins at the battle vs. Gorudo is a complete different char (technically).

Would you mind sharing this list with our website? I would love to do a html template for you, if you like to fill your data in it!


That would be great! I don't know how to do that HTML thing myself, though I've tried it at school before.
I'm just taking Jowy's stats from the guide, and I have only observed "King" Jowy's stats when he joined Riou at Level 99, and he got pretty overpowered MAG and SPD stats, so he had 9/8/5/3 MP and ~200 SPD and thus, he will always go first against Gorudo. So Jowy's stats in the list was his stats as "King".

I'm actually trying to get McDohl in my next playthrough, so that I can confirm his and Jowy Atreides's stats. Right now, I'm assuming that Jowy Atreides and Jowy Blight had the same stat growth, despite both being treated as two different characters. I assume Jowy Blight's SPD boost is due to his equipment. It's because at the start, Riou and Jowy had the same SPD all throughout the game, but while most of the time Riou goes first, Jowy can go first if you equipped a Feathered Hat on him in the early game.

One stark difference between Riou and Jowy is the MAG stat. Jowy had a second rune slot and a Level 3 spell early in the Sindar Ruins, so I equipped a Fire Rune on him, since he has an A affinity to it. On the other hand, I had to grind Riou to at least Level 16 and use the Stone of Magic to get his Level 3 spell. With Battle Oath and Piercing One unlocked, Double Head was easy.

The last play through, I was trying to do Clive's side quest, but I realized I won't make it to Sajah when I saw my time at 19 hours and I'm still liberating Greenhill. Reasons: I had to equip my Luca Blight party with the best equips available (I took him out with only Riou's party, supposedly to make it faster), I forgot Sarah's Cyclone Rune the first time I got to Gregminster, and I wasn't able to recruit Gordon the first time.

Okay, I have here the two Word files of this one, and an Excel file from where you can estimate the stats for each stat growth at every level.
Also, I want to know how to do that column-sort thing (the one with the arrow tab in the headers) so that anyone who uses the files can sort the characters according to who has the highest or lowest stat growths. Like, if someone wants to know who has the highest STR stats, or PROT or MAG or SPD stats, he can sort it easily.

Suikoden 2 Stat Growth Rates.zip
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Re: [Guide]Stat Growth rates

Postby KFCrispy » Wed Nov 03, 2010 9:21 am

what's the difference between your word docs?

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Re: [Guide]Stat Growth rates

Postby Celes » Wed Nov 03, 2010 12:41 pm

By the looks of it, I would suggest naming the growth levels by alphabetic characters rather than by numbers. It looks a bit confusing imo. This can easily be done with the help of "find & replace" in your .doc file. While doing that, we should sort them into a descending order first. For the stats that would be "A" for Stat Growth 08 being the best and "K" for Stat Growth 00 beeing the worst.

One more thing: Shouldn't it be "Level 02-19" instead of 01? Or does the game starts counting level-ups beginning with lv 0?

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Re: [Guide]Stat Growth rates

Postby ninjaluc79 » Thu Nov 04, 2010 12:06 am

KFCrispy wrote:what's the difference between your word docs?


One is a Word blog file which I intended to convert to HTML, the other is the original Word document file I have worked on. I used to work this with Excel, but it won't let me put zeros before the numbers. So I decided to do this in Word instead.

CelesDestiny wrote:By the looks of it, I would suggest naming the growth levels by alphabetic characters rather than by numbers. It looks a bit confusing imo. While doing that, we should sort them into a descending order first. For the stats that would be "A" for Stat Growth 08 being the best and "K" for Stat Growth 00 beeing the worst.


I only used the Suikoden 3 and 4 stat growth guide conventions of naming the stat growth, which is the numbers 00-11. If we are going to do this with letters in ascending order, it would be:

Rank E = Stat 10 (final stat 60) = HP 11 (final HP 450)
Rank D- = Stat 00 (final stat 70) = HP 00 (final HP 500)
Rank D = Stat 01 (final stat 95) = HP 01 (final HP 550)
Rank C- = Stat 02 (final stat 105) = HP 02 (final HP 650)
Rank C = Stat 03 (final stat 120) = HP 03 (final HP 700)
Rank B = Stat 04 (final stat 145) = HP 04 (final HP 750)
Rank B+ = Stat 05 (final stat 165) = HP 05 (final HP 800)
Rank A- = Stat 06 (final stat 190) = HP 06 (final HP 850)
Rank A = Stat 09 (final stat 210) = HP 09 (final HP 900)
Rank A+ = Stat 07 (final stat 210) = HP 07 (final HP 900)
Rank S = Stat 08 (final stat 230) = HP 08 and HP 10 (final HP 999)


Average HP values are rounded to the nearest multiple of 50.

That suggestion is much feasible in the common gamer's sense because if the characters are ranked accroding to their stats, it's much easier than just placing their stat growth rates in terms of numbers. It's just some people prefer using the S3 stat growth rate ID convention than the ones used by IczR1 in his rankings table, but then again, it's much easier to determine which character is strong in a desired stat if the above convention is used. Otherwise, if you just want to determine which stat is strong in each character, you can do it both ways.

Which comes into mind that there's no such thing as a 'weak' or 'useless' character (except for the one who has an HP rank of E). Everyone can be optimized with the use of the right runes and equipment. For my fighters and archers who have low magic affinities, I usually rely on Double-Beat and Double-Strike Runes, Master Garbs, and then Skill Rings for low TECH people like Bolgan and Millie. For people with high MAG and rune affinities, I use magic runes on them, particularly the ones they have high affinity to.

For everyone, I tend to use a magic resistance set (Fire Emblem, Earth Armor, Earth Shield, Windspun Armor, Flame Helmet, and the elemental amulets) because some monsters in L'Renouille deal elemental attacks, like Chimera's Fire Breath and Rust Breath, Bronzem's Earth Column attack, Magus's Flaming Arrows (which really hurts) and Fire Column Wave, the Beast Rune's Left Head's Ice Rain attack (which deals water damage), and the Right Head's normal attack, which I confirmed is fire elemental.

While Nina and Killey have relatively low MAG, they have an A affinity to Fire, so a Rage Rune on them won't be that bad, especially Nina, since you would probably prefer to use Killey as an attacker. Flik and Tengaar, while they have a MAG growth of 06, have only B affinities at the highest. Only the full-fledged mages like Luc and Mazus have high MAG and high affinity. And don't forget Viki's high MAG but E affinity to all elements.


CelesDestiny wrote:One more thing: Shouldn't it be "Level 02-19" instead of 01? Or does the game starts counting level-ups beginning with lv 0?


You're right. All characters have fixed values at Level 1, thus, the count-off starts by Level 2.

Side note: I noticed that no matter how much MDEF my characters have, the Beast Rune's unite attack drops everyone to critical HP. I noticed that lower HP characters take lower damage, while higher HP characters take higher damage, but still, everyone became weak.
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Re: [Guide]Stat Growth rates

Postby Celes » Thu Nov 04, 2010 3:47 pm

ninjaluc79 wrote:Rank E = Stat 10 (final stat 60) = HP 11 (final HP 450)
Rank D- = Stat 00 (final stat 70) = HP 00 (final HP 500)
Rank D = Stat 01 (final stat 95) = HP 01 (final HP 550)
Rank C- = Stat 02 (final stat 105) = HP 02 (final HP 650)
Rank C = Stat 03 (final stat 120) = HP 03 (final HP 700)
Rank B = Stat 04 (final stat 145) = HP 04 (final HP 750)
Rank B+ = Stat 05 (final stat 165) = HP 05 (final HP 800)
Rank A- = Stat 06 (final stat 190) = HP 06 (final HP 850)
Rank A = Stat 09 (final stat 210) = HP 09 (final HP 900)
Rank A+ = Stat 07 (final stat 210) = HP 07 (final HP 900)
Rank S = Stat 08 (final stat 230) = HP 08 and HP 10 (final HP 999)

Why do you combine HP growth rates 08 and 10?

Better sort them by growth rates pirmary. When it comes to a tie, sort them by maximum stat possible secondary.

And lets bring a bit of consistency to the ranks.
S, A+, A, B+, B, C+, C, D+, D, E+ (HP growth rate only), E, F


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