[FAQ] Natural Elemental Damage / Weapon Rune Pieces

Kuromimi · Post by **Kuromimi** » Wed Aug 18, 2004 9:30 am

Guess I'll do it:

Banshee, from the cave behind Qlon.
Level 60 Hix, 299 attack: 259 damage
Level 60 Tai Ho, 324 attack: 279 damage
Level 60 Lorelai, 302 attack: 423 damage

Same results for the Siren enemy in Shazarazade. To the Hawk Man enemy in Kalekka, Lorelai dealt more damage, but only 100 more. She dealt almost 200 more damage to the Banshee and Siren. Tried some enemies that Alen, Sonya, Quincy and Clive dealt more damage to. Normal damage for Lorelai in each case. Odd.

Post by **KFCrispy** » Wed Aug 18, 2004 9:38 am

hey in your tests, Hellion seems to be getting an attack boost.. her atk was definitely 153 right?

vs Mad Ivy she avged 158, and Mad Ivy seems to hae about 20-30 in defense, worse for Luc (though it could be just randomness)

vs Killer Slime avged 154, which aved a 30 in defense from the other results

vs Kerebos she got 149 while it seemed to have 70 in defense

could Lorelai have earth?

here's some others that we might wanna try..
Cleo - Air Moonstar Sword... wind?
Eileen - seems like a total earth user to me
Juppo - Metal Gear... earth?
Morgan - Hawk Talons... wind?
Ronnie - Dragon Claw... fire?
blacksmiths - earth?

.. i think i'm just making things up at this point

but this might be interesting: Griffith has Black Sword - darkness? i don't think it reallly counts as an element though..

yeah anyway. after we figure this out we can go try to see what the "secret tech boost for Clive and secret magic boost for Crowley" might be!

the extra damage seems to be 15-30% greater than the base attack stat ignoring enemy defense. after approximating defense values for the enemies then adding that amount to the special character's damage, it's closer to 35%

i always did notice that when fighting the Killer Slimes for Water Rune pieces (i already had some on McDohl), he seemed to do less damage but i thought it was just randomness.

Soul Eater · Post by **Soul Eater** » Wed Aug 18, 2004 12:33 pm

Kuromimi wrote:Guess I'll do it:

Banshee, from the cave behind Qlon.
Level 60 Hix, 299 attack: 259 damage
Level 60 Tai Ho, 324 attack: 279 damage
Level 60 Lorelai, 302 attack: 423 damage

Same results for the Siren enemy in Shazarazade. To the Hawk Man enemy in Kalekka, Lorelai dealt more damage, but only 100 more. She dealt almost 200 more damage to the Banshee and Siren. Tried some enemies that Alen, Sonya, Quincy and Clive dealt more damage to. Normal damage for Lorelai in each case. Odd.

This whole thing is confusing. You think you've found some rule or pattern then something breaks it. It seems from your results and mine that all enemies must have a 'very weak/weak/normal/strong/very strong' type rating (or something similar, rather than just weak/normal/strong) as some attacks get a bigger boost than others. Some of the elements seem illogical and the enemies that you'd do extra damage to are had to guess at. I guess the only way would be to test every character against every enemy.. but there are something like 95 enemies to test and 76 playable characters, then you want several hits from each person to get a good mean damage. Maybe you could get several people to split it, like do a few characters each?

KFCrispy wrote:hey in your tests, Hellion seems to be getting an attack boost.. her atk was definitely 153 right?

vs Mad Ivy she avged 158, and Mad Ivy seems to hae about 20-30 in defense, worse for Luc (though it could be just randomness)

vs Killer Slime avged 154, which aved a 30 in defense from the other results

vs Kerebos she got 149 while it seemed to have 70 in defense

could Lorelai have earth?

here's some others that we might wanna try..
Cleo - Air Moonstar Sword... wind?
Eileen - seems like a total earth user to me
Juppo - Metal Gear... earth?
Morgan - Hawk Talons... wind?
Ronnie - Dragon Claw... fire?
blacksmiths - earth?

.. i think i'm just making things up at this point

but this might be interesting: Griffith has Black Sword - darkness? i don't think it reallly counts as an element though..

yeah anyway. after we figure this out we can go try to see what the "secret tech boost for Clive and secret magic boost for Crowley" might be!

the extra damage seems to be 15-30% greater than the base attack stat ignoring enemy defense. after approximating defense values for the enemies then adding that amount to the special character's damage, it's closer to 35%

i always did notice that when fighting the Killer Slimes for Water Rune pieces (i already had some on McDohl), he seemed to do less damage but i thought it was just randomness.

Sorry I must have misread Hellions attack when I copied it onto here. I just checked it and it was 183. That makes more sense.

Lorelai having earth seems like the explanation that makes the most sense. But then the enemies she seemed to be strong against don't seem the right type... a flying enemy, a water-type enemy?

What did you mean by the "secret tech boost for Clive and secret magic boost for Crowley" thing?

I would like to test cleo but she has 9 water rune pieces and the only way to change that is by adding another, which wouldn't help. One thing that I would find interesting is to take some characters we are pretty certain about and add the corresponding rune pieces to their weapons (Fire and Thunder to Alen and Grenseal) then see if they do even more damage.

Post by **KFCrispy** » Wed Aug 18, 2004 1:24 pm

murayama has stated they gave clive and crowley secret boosts to show how skilled they were... but i don't think he's mentioned wpns with natural elements!

some faqs at gamefaqs talks about the immunities for the Golden Hydra heads, and one is very strong against fire/lightning, the other is medium strong... -_-

yeah i'm going to try to get the values for rune pieces someday. i can use emulator + cheat device to help me with more numbers.. but this is already starting to get confusing. what if the True Sword of Rage had lightning, will it erase the possible fire property!?

Soul Eater · Post by **Soul Eater** » Wed Aug 18, 2004 5:38 pm

KFCrispy wrote:murayama has stated they gave clive and crowley secret boosts to show how skilled they were... but i don't think he's mentioned wpns with natural elements!

some faqs at gamefaqs talks about the immunities for the Golden Hydra heads, and one is very strong against fire/lightning, the other is medium strong... -_-

yeah i'm going to try to get the values for rune pieces someday. i can use emulator + cheat device to help me with more numbers.. but this is already starting to get confusing. what if the True Sword of Rage had lightning, will it erase the possible fire property!?

I imagine that then he would do Fire + Lightning damage, which would be higher on enemies that are weak vs one element and normal vs the other, extra strong against enemies that are weak against both, normal damage if one is high and one is low.. and so on like that. That is just my guess though so I'll try to test it out soon.

I'm still a little confused about the secret boosts, do you mean that he isn't talking about their natural high stats (very high MGC and SKL), and that there are things about each character that virtually nobody knows that makes them very poweful?

From memory I think that Clive has the highest attack of all the long rangers in the game. Also as he is long range he can equip double-beat rune with no drawbacks. If you add these facts to the elemental power of his weapon then he is already a very powerful fighter.

Also Crowley has arguably the highest Magic (very close to Luc's) but is a fair bit stronger than Luc, then he is also really good. Could this be all he was talking about, or maybe he has some secret rune affinity or something??? Now I'm intrigued...

Post by **thcrock** » Wed Aug 18, 2004 6:04 pm

I wonder if Neclord would be weak against Holy weapons, given that.

That would be interesting to find out to help people who are just getting to him for the first time and having trouble with him.

Red Killey · Post by **Red Killey** » Wed Aug 18, 2004 6:09 pm

I'm still a little confused about the secret boosts, do you mean that he isn't talking about their natural high stats (very high MGC and SKL), and that there are things about each character that virtually nobody knows that makes them very poweful?

Yup, Murayama was talking about "hidden" boost to Clive's TECH and Crowley's MAG stats, not the shown stats on the screen.

highwind44029 · Post by **highwind44029** » Sun Oct 10, 2004 7:25 pm

Didn't see this thread before. I always thought the boost was indeed because of the weapons, but not because of elements, but rather of the weapon type (piercing, etc.) It seems to be a lot of work to do all of this. I admire your perseverance, Soul Eater.

Chris_Lightfellow · Post by **Chris_Lightfellow** » Thu Jun 09, 2005 11:24 am

I disagree because Hix and Lorelai both are sword users, yet in Kuromimi's test Hix's damage was significantly less than Lorelai's.

Post by **KFCrispy** » Tue Jun 14, 2005 12:19 am

Lorelai uses a bow and arrow in this game

Soul Eater · Post by **Soul Eater** » Sun Aug 21, 2005 12:35 pm

I know this thread is old but soon I will get my copy of Suikoden 1 back from a friend who has had it for almost 10 months. When I get it I am going to test enemies weaknesses against each element by using spells, and see if it matches up with my supposed weapon elements.

Post by **KFCrispy** » Mon Aug 22, 2005 9:41 am

awesome, thanks!!!

Karayan_Fighter · Post by **Karayan_Fighter** » Sun Dec 11, 2005 9:45 pm

Can someone test Kasim with undead? I have a suspicion why they call him Blue Moon

Fuma · Post by **Fuma** » Thu Dec 15, 2005 2:30 am

Am I the only one who thinks Clive's weapon is of the fire element? Every time he attacks, the enemy becomes red/orange (which I'm assuming represents the fire element?) for a second or so during their "shock" phase, which happens right after you attack; I'm sure most of you know what I mean by this. Some would say I have a Fire rune piece affixed to his weapon, but I do not - am I the only who has this happen when Clive attacks?

Just to add, I was battling Killer Slimes on Mt. Tigerwolf, Clive did the most damage in my party. I'm assuming the Killer Slimes are of the water element because they drop water rune pieces. It is common knowledge that the elements water and fire are opposed, no?

kosc88 · Post by **kosc88** » Sun Apr 09, 2006 11:22 am

when I was fighting phantoms at gregminster palace, all characters using bows and darts did more damage.
It surely has something to do with weapon's type.