Suikoden Hard Mode (Complete)

A forum to ask questions if you are stuck in the The Gate Rune Wars; or wish for more clarity on the gameplay systems.
Jarlaxle
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Suikoden Hard Mode (Complete)

Postby Jarlaxle » Fri May 26, 2017 1:53 am

Download Link: https://tinyurl.com/y8pqvbdd // YouTube Suikoden Hard Mode Playlist: https://tinyurl.com/ybulkbnb

After all these years, Suikoden Hard Mode is here. Thanks to Starwin’s editor I was able to work on this over the last few months, and it’s finally ready. This is a middle-of-the-road Hard Mode as opposed to an Insane Difficulty ragefest (so there’s plenty of room if someone wants to make a Super Hard mode). All enemies and bosses in the game have been made stronger, and it has been fully tested from start to finish (and retested in numerous areas).

If you are familiar with my Hard Mode version of Lufia, then you’ll know that I offer compensation for the harder difficulty. Medicines now have a maximum quantity of 9 instead of 6, and Mega Medicines now have a whopping 6 instead of 3; and Antitoxins/Needles went from 4 to 6. On top of this, all item drop rates have been made much more generous as well as new drops added here and there, with bosses almost always giving something good.

Your initial characters have had a very slight HP boost as well as some equipment added for Ted to allow you to more safely get your first few levels; it could be dangerous with just Tir and Ted in the original game, but now the two can really only handle a pair of BonBons by themselves. There is no way around this if you wish to take on the optional sidequest for a Prosperity Crystal, but it’s naturally much easier if you skip it; although since you’re playing Hard Mode, who would want to?

While ‘Let Go’ allows you to run away guaranteed, for Hard Mode purposes the idea of clearing a dungeon is fighting every enemy encounter along the way, where the attrition challenge is to not use too much magic that you run out too soon. Rationing out your MP is important to safely conquer a dungeon. I normally get most of the treasure, and then retreat for healing before taking on the boss, having already ‘cleared’ the dungeon so to speak (at which point using Let Go is justified). Aside from that I’ll generally only use Let Go when the experience is irrelevant.

All changes in the game have been thoroughly documented, so be sure to check it out if you’re interested and to see if there are any item drops you might like to target. I also noted my party’s levels below some of the boss statistics. Almost all enemy formations have been increased throughout the game, so it isn’t just a case of tougher monsters; there are more of them too.

Please check out my fully-voiced playthrough on YouTube (link above) if you need help or would like to show support, as there will be plenty of hints and trivia mentioned in each video as well as the comments. I’ll upload new 30~ minute parts every Friday and Sunday. This will be my ‘second-pass’, so minor changes will be made along the way if I notice any enemies could use a further buff.

What’s Next: I plan on finishing my Hard Mode versions of Warsong and Langrisser 2 for the Genesis, and might do a voice-acted Let’s Play for the latter. Both are excellent TRPGs and well worth playing through the vanilla versions if you haven’t already as some consider them difficult enough already for casual players. I might revive my Breath of Fire II project afterward, and then move on with Breath of Fire III unless someone else does so in the meantime!

Acknowledgement: This wouldn’t have been possible without Starwin’s awesome dedication making the editor, so thanks again.

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STARWIN
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Re: Suikoden Hard Mode (Complete)

Postby STARWIN » Fri May 26, 2017 8:14 pm

Are you aware of Pyriel's bugfixes for S1? viewtopic.php?f=8&t=12780&start=30#p157748

The escape talisman fix is doable with the editor, but the rest might be of interest.

Jarlaxle
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Location: Australia

Re: Suikoden Hard Mode (Complete)

Postby Jarlaxle » Sat May 27, 2017 2:38 am

Yeah I saw those, although I used 1.1 as a base so I'm not sure if it's compatible. Not too fussed about most of that although the Earth magic fixes could be pretty damn useful for anyone struggling. All monsters drop more money as compensation, so the Bribe feature is now a lot more expensive anyhow, especially later in the game. As fun as this was I'm pretty keen to give the 70%~ I've completed for Langrisser 2's Hard Mode a second-pass and then finish it off. The original became too easy if using Runestones; now they are almost essential and still fun after powering up. Pretty sure someone else will make a Hard Mode for Breath of Fire III since a decent editor came out, but I'd love to tackle that as well if not. Not that I need more distractions in my life, but, hey. >_>

Antimatzist
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Re: Suikoden Hard Mode (Complete)

Postby Antimatzist » Mon May 29, 2017 7:04 am

I just shared it on the SRM facebook page, nice work!

So you only altered the stats of the initial characters, right? But the stat boni gained from level ups remain the same? No changes in spells?

And a completely unrelated question - did you use a filter on the screenshots? The sprites look awesome!

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Celes
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Re: Suikoden Hard Mode (Complete)

Postby Celes » Mon May 29, 2017 1:25 pm

- How to retreat after beating the Shell Venus? That's impossible unless you changed the dungeon
- Why are there numerous occurrences of the Dragon Seal Insence? They are not consumed normally. Did you change that?
- You added all the rune pieces to the loot tables but Skill rune piece is still missing.
- Did you change the stats for duels and war battles? I can show you the locations for the enemy stats for those battles.
- What about "Dragon S. E." and "Beast Rune"?
- It would be kind to give me at least credit for using my bestiary.

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sticky-runes
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Re: Suikoden Hard Mode (Complete)

Postby sticky-runes » Mon May 29, 2017 2:56 pm

I like the idea of fixing the enemy formations so that you always encounter large groups, but I thought that bigger monsters like the colossus would take up two slots (like the playable monsters in S2) are there no restrictions on monster sizes?

TheyCallMeStacy
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Re: Suikoden Hard Mode (Complete)

Postby TheyCallMeStacy » Tue May 30, 2017 2:15 am

Celes wrote:- How to retreat after beating the Shell Venus? That's impossible unless you changed the dungeon
- Why are there numerous occurrences of the Dragon Seal Insence? They are not consumed normally. Did you change that?
- You added all the rune pieces to the loot tables but Skill rune piece is still missing.
- Did you change the stats for duels and war battles? I can show you the locations for the enemy stats for those battles.
- What about "Dragon S. E." and "Beast Rune"?
- It would be kind to give me at least credit for using my bestiary.


In the original Suikoden if you retreat and leave the dungeon right after beating Shell Venus, and don't go deeper in the dungeon to advance to open the floodgate, then you should be able leave the dungeon, heal up, change characters, etc without encountering Sonya. It's just that most people don't think to do this, so usually they end up having to fight Sonya without having the chance to rest at an inn.

Jarlaxle
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Re: Suikoden Hard Mode (Complete)

Postby Jarlaxle » Tue May 30, 2017 4:17 am

@Antimatzist: Cheers. Yeah very few characters needed changing, and they're also documented in the download file. Luc got a bit of a HP boost as well since I assume others might use him; and I'm open to give more a slight boost if anyone finds a certain character less viable. Yeah level up stat boosts are unchanged, although monster levels are higher later in the game to allow for a slight bit of compensation here and there; especially late game. I can be quite considerate for a tall bastard. ;) Spells aren't changed nor are elemental weaknesses; so magic is still a bit OP and all challenge can be removed by simply using powerful spells every round for a couple of battles and then using Let Go all the time; but I'm hoping most people looking for a challenge won't do that. >_>

The screens were taken from my Xbox's PSX emulator with HD filters and 720p goodness; I'm only using my PC for recordings due to occasional glitches on the Xbox. And I've always had issues trying to record from my PS2 for some reason.

@Celes: 1 - as TheyCallMeStacy mentioned all you have to do is advance no further after beating the Shell Venus. Although a more fun method is to fight all battles on the way to the first boss collecting treasure, and then retreat for healing. Having 'cleared' the dungeon thus, use Let Go until you reach the Shell Venus. Sonya isn't all that tough in comparison, but you'll likely have a few spells left for her. This should be more fun; I'll try it during my YouTube playthrough. Sonya only used her hit-all magic spell once in my entire battle, but Ain Gide was much less reserved with *his* magic, haha.

2 - As a drop they are consumable, and I increased the max to 3 to see if that removes the infinite nature of the one attainable at Lepant's. I wanted to change them to heal say 200 HP for everyone, but I won't do so if that infinite loophole still exists. It hasn't been tested yet so for now Dragon Seal Incense drops were left in as a joke. Healing 50 HP in the final dungeon doesn't help much. >[email protected] Useful to top up minor damage after battle, I suppose.

3 - Cheers, I'll factor it in during the next update.

4 - I'd definitely love to; I forgot to add optional codes to make the major battles tougher (which is a bit unorthodox, I guess). For an all-over Hard Mode this would be perfect. Very appreciated!

5 - I meant Dragon Seal (I)ncense, haha. And the Beast Rune reference was just a joke for anyone who reads the documentation. :D

6 - Thanks, I'll update the various topics I posted on the weekend.

My computer has finally been formatted; it's great to not see the Blue Screen Of Death so often anymore. >_>

Edit:
@Sticky-Runes: Yeah technically you could put in six large enemies, but they don't align properly. You'll see how the snake-lady only just fits in between those two Collosus foes in the screenshots. ;) For some reason formation changes glitched up if I went too far with the groups at Magician's Island and Mt Seifu, but the rest of the game is fine. The only other glitch is when there are two Hellhound-type creatures, the second one loses its smokey coat, haha.

ZaruenVoresu
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Re: Suikoden Hard Mode (Complete)

Postby ZaruenVoresu » Wed May 31, 2017 4:51 am

Thank You!


My Only complaint with the suikoden Games is they are far too easy.

One suggetsion... I will let you know when I remember, It just blanked on me.

da2pacalypse
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Re: Suikoden Hard Mode (Complete)

Postby da2pacalypse » Tue Sep 12, 2017 12:50 am

A breath of fire ii hard mode doesn't exist does it? I've been wanting to play a hard version of 1 and 2 for a while but oddly it's never been done. I'd given up on a hard mode of suikoden 1 and 2 and then I saw this. It's pretty awesome. I'm probably halfway through it when you need to acquire the fire spears. Quite challenging so far

Jarlaxle
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Re: Suikoden Hard Mode (Complete)

Postby Jarlaxle » Tue Sep 12, 2017 7:46 pm

Cheers for the input mate, yeah there are some really nice item drops worth aiming for here and there, where most of the battles are almost completely optional. In the next//final version I'm going to increase some of the monster levels even further, which will get you a bit of extra experience, and probably get you to level 99 by the end of the game without grinding! Keep your save file for Suikoden II Hard Mode. :D There's a 'hardcore' release already, so it could help slightly with that as well. I'm aiming to make a middle-of-the-road difficulty hack for the second game in the future. The next version of this hack will have a few minor buffs here and there where enemies still seem to miss far too regularly, and status ailments are still very rare in some places. Oh, and tougher Duels and Major Battles, so a full hard mode experience. >_> I've almost finished my second-pass in that regard.

My YouTube playthrough only covers up until the Gigantes boss so far, and I've got a huge backlog to upload, haha. However, I've done a couple of live streams on Twitch which cover from battles outside Kirov up until Seek Valley, if you're interested. I also play my other hard mode projects every Sunday. My Twitch Channel.

As for Breath of Fire II, there isn't a proper hard mode for any of the games if memory serves. I was working on one (you can see early hard mode boss battle previews at my YouTube channel, link at the top of my first post) but I had some issues with the game editor and glitches (probably due to my emulator). Now that I know how to hack, I can probably safely resume the project! However, I think I'd rather try and make a hard mode of the first game first. There are editors available for BoF II and III, so it's possible someone else will make hard modes for both games, saving me the time. There is more information on my hacking work, past, present and future projects on my Twitch channel page, if you're interested. Thanks for stopping by!

da2pacalypse
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Re: Suikoden Hard Mode (Complete)

Postby da2pacalypse » Fri Sep 15, 2017 3:01 am

I would definitely play a Breath of Fire I hard mode. I remember enjoying the first game a lot and preferring a lot of the characters over the ones in the sequel. I played it many times but I remember near the end my levels would get too high without grinding and for some reason everything would die without really needing to put in any effort. That was always the most disappointing part of breath of fire for me. The end game offers absolutely no challenge and I'd get frustrated and lose interest in finishing it. I think Bleu couldn't kill almost anything in one round with one spell. But yeah I'll be checking out the channel. I think I've seen a few videos already. I started playing Lufia hard mode. So far that's been pretty fun.


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