[Guide] War Battle Guide

A forum to ask questions if you are stuck in the The Gate Rune Wars; or wish for more clarity on the gameplay systems.
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Celes
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[Guide] War Battle Guide

Post by Celes »

Started a war battle guide listing potential enemy attacks per turn, attack types and power:
http://www.suikosource.com/games/gs1/guides/war.php

It can be combined later with the existing army battle guide though:
http://www.suikosource.com/games/gs1/gu ... attles.php

Any more ideas?

I wonder how actual damage is calculated ...
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Sasarai10
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Re: [Guide] War Battle Guide

Post by Sasarai10 »

Shall we add the number of troops per character in the guide? :idea:


http://suikosource.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=13461


The only damage i noticed that can be calculated is Magic Attack i guess. It's your Attack power multiplied with 200. For example if your unite has 25 Attack Power,then you'll kill 5000 troops
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Re: [Guide] War Battle Guide

Post by Antimatzist »

@Sasarai10: Always? That's a good start, at least. I'd guess the other two attacks depend on your attack power and number of soldiers, but I haven't played the game in ages so that's a bad guess.
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Re: [Guide] War Battle Guide

Post by Sasarai10 »

Antimatzist wrote:@Sasarai10: Always? That's a good start, at least. I'd guess the other two attacks depend on your attack power and number of soldiers, but I haven't played the game in ages so that's a bad guess.

Yes,it's always Attack Power multiplied with 200. I've tried various magic units,and it's always the same.

Also another thing that i've noticed,is that when you use a unit with low attack power,then you will suffer less loses,if your attack fails
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Celes
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Re: [Guide] War Battle Guide

Post by Celes »

So it is magic vs. charge then. How about magic vs. magic?

The combined knowledge of damage calculation and potential attacks per turn could bring up the minimal characters discussion once again. Getting the rare enemy magic attacks more often and at the right time could result in slightly more projectetd perma deaths.

We already know some attacks nullify damage while others don't (charge vs. bow). How is damage reduced then and does less attack power results in less damage taken as well? If so, how much? I believe some damage is based on a percentage of your initial army size for special attacks. It seems that a charged attack vs. armored cavalry is: Attack power = % of total army size reduced. Fishermans (complete) have 19 attack power. They damage Teo's army with around 2660 DMG (~19%) all the time. However, there seems to be a little randomizer in it, so it is not exactly 19%. The calculation is based on the initial army size. They still do ~2660 DMG when Teo has already lost soldiers. Poisonous Pollen inflicts DMG to your army that takes exactly 80% of it every time, so it always looks pretty close.
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CVagts
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Re: [Guide] War Battle Guide

Post by CVagts »

Did you need info on the other "enemy will always do <x>" turns? I'm guessing not, but I figured I'd throw out the ones I knew about: Milich always Charges on turn 1, Milich always Magics on turn 2, Yuber always Charges on turn 3
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Re: [Guide] War Battle Guide

Post by CVagts »

If there is no more progress being made on this, can someone share some of the stuff used to try to find some of this information out? I'd like to take a stab at continuing the guide, see what makes these war battles go.
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Sasarai10
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Re: [Guide] War Battle Guide

Post by Sasarai10 »

CVagts wrote:If there is no more progress being made on this, can someone share some of the stuff used to try to find some of this information out? I'd like to take a stab at continuing the guide, see what makes these war battles go.

Did you check my post above about the number of troops per character? :?:


If so,can you figure out how many troops the rest of them have? i figured out 76/108 of them. :|
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Re: [Guide] War Battle Guide

Post by Celes »

I have already extracted all the informations about potential enemy attacks per turn, attack types and power. Just need some time to put it into the guide.

However, testings about the damage caluculation is what needs to be done.
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Re: [Guide] War Battle Guide

Post by CVagts »

I've got figures on how many troops all the stars have. I'm not 100% positive about this, given that some of them are mandatory, but the numbers seem to add up. I took Sasarai's figures on the 76 and with mine for the rest, the total was 90 short. I double-checked, and Eileen and Gremio were listed inaccurately (Eileen is listed at 150, and I got 170; Gremio is listed at 80, and I got 150). I haven't double-checked all of Sasarai's numbers, but some of the math seems really weird (like how the difference between max troops at Shazarazade and max troops at the final battle is only 330, but Sonya + Gremio is 400). I'll look into it some more and update this post if I find something out.

The way I calculated these was using Game Shark codes to remove certain characters as if they had not been recruited. If this is proven to be an inaccurate way to measure it, let me know.

The list of troops as I have it right now.

1200 units: Max
900 units: Lepant
700 units: Tir McDohl, Warren
600 units: Joshua, Varkas
550 troops: Mathiu
450 troops: Humphrey
400 troops: Griffith
380 troops: Kirkis
350 troops: Mose
300 troops: Anji, Flik, Gen, Kreutz, Kwanda, Qlon, Viktor, Zen
280 troops: Apple, Kimberly
270 troops: Kessler, Milich
250 troops: Leon, Marie, Sonya, Valeria
240 troops: Kun To
220 troops: Lotte, Viki
200 troops: Jeane, Kasim, Sancho
190 troops: Lester, Meg
180 troops: Antonio, Eikei, Milia, Quincy
170 troops: Eileen
160 troops: Mina
150 troops: Alen, Chandler, Gremio, Grenseal, Liukan, Pahn
140 troops: Ivanov, Kai
130 troops: Kamandol
120 troops: Sydonia, Tai Ho, Templeton
110 troops: Blackman, Fukien, Hugo, Ronnie Bell
100 troops: Mace
90 troops: Camille, Kanak, Kasumi, Leonardo, Lorelai, Maas, Meese, Moose, Sansuke
80 troops: Chapman, Cleo, Morgan, Sarah, Sergei
70 troops: Esmeralda, Hellion, Juppo, Rock, Tesla
60 troops: Futch, Kuromimi, Melodye, Sheena, Sylvina, Window, Yam Koo
50 troops: Crowley, Gon
30 troops: Clive, Giovanni, Jabba, Kasios, Marco, Tengaar
20 troops: Fu Su Lu, Georges, Ledon, Luc, Onil, Stallion
10 troops: Fuma, Gaspar, Hix, Kage, Rubi, Taggart
5 troops: Kirke, Krin, Pesmerga, Vincent
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Celes
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Re: [Guide] War Battle Guide

Post by Celes »

I guess the troops don't add up per character. Perhaps they have a different number of soldiers per unit combination. The same goes for the attack value. For example: Quincy solo: 9 ATK. Lorelai solo: 11 ATK. Quincy + Lorelai: 15 ATK.

Source: http://www.suikosource.com/games/gs1/gu ... attles.php
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Re: [Guide] War Battle Guide

Post by CVagts »

The numbers all match up until the Scarleticia war battle. I presume that Gremio's death has something to do with it. If you calculate how many troops you SHOULD have vs. how many you have in the game, you end up 70 short in Scarleticia onward (i.e. if you have 10485 troops in-game, the spreadsheet totals say you should have 10415 not including Gremio, 10565 if you do include him), until the end of the game when Gremio rejoins (like I said before, the 18710 number matches up).

Pahn's death does not affect the numbers IIRC, so it must have something to do with Gremio's "temporary death" status.

The perplexing thing, though, is that if you Game Shark Gremio out of your party as though he were never recruited, your troop count decreases by the 150 that I figured, which would take you to 10335. I could try playing around with the unit combination like you suggested.

Edit: I Game Sharked all 108 characters onto the team right before Scarleticia, and it gave me a total of 18,630 instead of the normal 18,710. So it's 80 short in this case.
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Sasarai10
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Re: [Guide] War Battle Guide

Post by Sasarai10 »

It's very complicated....probably Gremio is an exception.


About Eilleen's troops i guess i'm mistaken and i calculated wrong
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CVagts
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Re: [Guide] War Battle Guide

Post by CVagts »

I've been playing around with several different files that I had. In some files the numbers match up all the way through (assuming Gremio's number is 150). In some files, notably ones with all 108 stars, it doesn't match up like I've mentioned. So at some point, when I have the patience, I'll check every last recruit's number with Game Shark at a file I have right before Scarleticia (which is where the 108-star files start to deviate from the spreadsheet numbers).
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Re: [Guide] War Battle Guide

Post by CVagts »

Disregard my previous message. I went back and double-checked recordings of previous Suikoden playthroughs (which I happen to have on a Twitch page) and it turns out that yes, every file seems to be short by 70 troops. So I assume that Gremio's temp-death reduces his troop count from 150 to 70, and then if you get him back, it goes back up to 150. Unless other evidence pops up to the contrary, I'm going to assume that accounts for the discrepancies I've had and move on.
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