Same patterns in war battles?

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Sasarai10
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Same patterns in war battles?

Post by Sasarai10 »

I'm starting to think that the game mechanics in the first Suikoden aren't random at all.

For example today,i was trying to kill Max in the last battle against Yuber,in order to get Sancho's alternative ending.
I did the following:


-Had a save file just before the battle against Yuber
- I spoke to Mathiu choosing the second option
- Chose the first option (The Soul Eater...) when Leknaat was trying to vanish the monsters
-When the battle started Yuber used Bows in the first round ,and i used Crowley...Crowley was wounded
-Next Yuber used magic,and i used Knight's Party team..Sancho was killed.

I reseted the game,up to 3 times,and during the 3 of them,happened EXACTLY the same thing,Crowley was wounded,and Sancho died. During my 4th time,i chose the first option when i spoke to Mathiu,to wait a minute. And Yuber used Magic instead of Bows...so i'm really wondering if the game mechanics aren't random at all. :roll:

I noticed similar patterns in war battles,a while ago,but i didn't pay that much attention,as i did this time.
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gildedtalon
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Re: Same patterns in war battles?

Post by gildedtalon »

Yes, I think it uses the same pattern indeed if you always take the same action
Only for Suikoden I
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Raww Le Klueze
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Re: Same patterns in war battles?

Post by Raww Le Klueze »

Sasarai10 wrote:happened EXACTLY the same thing
Because you are doing the EXACT same thing the RNG doesn't change.
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sporefrog
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Re: Same patterns in war battles?

Post by sporefrog »

this only happens,if you do a hard reset(or loadstate on emulator).if you do a soft reset,Yubers first action can still change even if you allways do the same,because the rng is not "locked" anymore.
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Sasarai10
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Re: Same patterns in war battles?

Post by Sasarai10 »

sporefrog wrote:this only happens,if you do a hard reset(or loadstate on emulator).if you do a soft reset,Yubers first action can still change even if you allways do the same,because the rng is not "locked" anymore.

What do you mean by hard/soft reset? :|
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gildedtalon
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Re: Same patterns in war battles?

Post by gildedtalon »

LOL, I wanna ask the same thing, do Suikoden I and II even have soft reset? I never know
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Sasarai10
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Re: Same patterns in war battles?

Post by Sasarai10 »

Soft Reset = Press the reset button of PSX
Hard Reset = Press the Power button of PSX,twice.

Probably :|
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Re: Same patterns in war battles?

Post by sporefrog »

hard reset:
turn off the console---->rng dont change in certain situations

soft reset:
press and hold L1+L2+R1+R2+start+select simultaneously on the controller---->rng will change
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Sasarai10
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Re: Same patterns in war battles?

Post by Sasarai10 »

sporefrog wrote:hard reset:
turn off the console---->rng dont change in certain situations

So there is a way...eh?


I'm talking about killing all the killable non-optional characters,in case you are aiming for a minimum number of recruits...so if you know what's the next move,then you have more chances to pull it off...what do you think?
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sporefrog
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Re: Same patterns in war battles?

Post by sporefrog »

wait,do you play my suikoden I insane challenge right now?

anyway,its not enough to just hard reset,if you want to have the max amount(6) of war battle deaths.after each hard reset,the enemy should allways start with the same move but his following actions depend on YOUR moves.if he starts with bow attack first,and you follow with a charge,he could use magic as his next action.
but if you do another hard reset,he will start again with a bow attack.now,if you follow with magic instead of a charge attack,its NOT guaranteed that his second action will be magic again.after each hard reset,he will allways use the same moves IF you use the same moves too.
ist very annoying,but you have to discover the "perfect" battle pattern first,before you can start killing stars and you must of course survive too,and thats just a pain in the ass.its NOT entirely rng based,but you can manipulate the battle,after discovering the pattern.

if you keep hard resetting and still loosing,you should continue with soft resets,to change the rng and activate new battle patterns.

a good example is Yuber.he MUST start with a bow attack,otherwise you cannot kill 2 stars and still win this battle.you will undertand,what I mean,if you try to win this battle with 2 deaths...

its complicated,but I cannot describe it better...

I wrote down the perfect battle pattern for the Sonja battle at Shasarazade.each move you must do in order to kill 2 stars and still be able to win.if you cannot do it,let me know and I will post it.
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Sasarai10
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Re: Same patterns in war battles?

Post by Sasarai10 »

No i'm not going for your "insane" challenge right now... :P

Actually,i'd like to try a more insane challenge....KILL E-V-E-R-Y-O-N-E. :o :o :o


Yes,i mean it,kill every character who is killable in the game...i don't know if it's possible,though.

Btw,a good battle to kill many people is the one against Griffith. He has only a few troops,so you can take your time,to kill some of them :wink:
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Re: Same patterns in war battles?

Post by Punkaiser »

I believe someone on gfaqs did the same challenge a few months ago, and he corrected the list of characters that could be killed in war battles.
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Sasarai10
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Re: Same patterns in war battles?

Post by Sasarai10 »

Discovered sth else...that same patterns appear not only in war battles,but in regular battles too! For example,i was trying to level up Pahn,in order to keep him alive for the fight against Teo,in Soniere prison...1st enemy a single Nightmare,and i ran off...2nd enemy another single Nightmare,and i managed to escape again...3rd enemy was 3 Nightmares,and i didn't manage to escape this time...reset my console,up to three times,and the same pattern appeared again in all of them!

Another example,during the beggining of the game in Magician's Island...trying it up to 3 times. 1st enemy were 3 Fur Balls,2nd enemy were 6 Holly Boys,dropped a medicine after defeating them and the 3 times,and then the boss. Add the fact that the boss dodged Tir's and Cleo's attacks AND THE 3 TIMES,during the 1st round....coincidence? I don't think so.

That means,we can controll the game by ourselves,if we discover the patterns.

PS: Tomorrow i'll post a list with how many troops each character have in war battles...but only for 76 characters,not all of them,because it's impossible to find out for most of the non-optionals.
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CVagts
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Re: Same patterns in war battles?

Post by CVagts »

Does anyone know if patterns like this could be manipulated across different save files? Like could I run through the game, make a savefile at the end, then hard reset, start a new game, and have the patterns be exactly the same? Or would they change?
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