Stats Growth Characters Table

[Ellyos]

Hello, well I started again my suikoden I and I discovered this site.
Awesome work done here by the way, so gratz !

Now, my problem,

I have some questions about the Stats Growth Characters tables on your site.
How have you found these stats ? By the hard way ? training and training ?

Especioully for the starting stats ? They seem just... wrong...
Let's take an example :
I start a game :
My Tir McDohl has the following stats, at level 1 :
HP : 17
PWR : 13
SKL : 22
DEF : 18
SPD : 15
MAG : 12
LCK : 15

That's pretty different on your tables (for lvl 0) :
HP : 24
PWR : 13
SKL : 14
DEF : 13
SPD : 14
MAG : 13
LCK : 13

And, moreover, your site give a row for "starting stats" and a row from "lvl 1 to lvl 19".
But, well, in my games, Tir always start with the stats quoted above... so starting stats should be stats at lvl 1, not lvl 0, and the 2nd row should be "from lvl 2 to lvl 19".

So I was wondering if the tables came from the PSP version (that could be different from PlayStation's one), or if they're just wrong, or if there is something I don't understand from them.

One more thing, two character have inconsistant stats :
Gremio : Pwr : 2 - 3 / 0 - 1 / 2 - 3 from (respectively) "lvl 1 to 19" / "20 to 59" / "60 to 99"... seems a bit high for the 40 last levels... so... mistyped ?
Viktor : Pwr : 6 - 7 "from lvl 1 to 19"... it's pretty high and he is the only character with this range.
But well i guess i can check that by myself anyway.

Thanks by advance.

[Ellyos]

Ok I found my own answer.
Starting stats are really wrong.

I found them myself and I'm typing it.

Anyway, I still don't know if level up values are good or not.

[Celes]

I'm afraid those who wrote the stats growth guides are longer active members of suikosource. therefore, I really can't tell how the generated the initial lv 1 stats in the first place. If they are more or less wrong stats in this guide, I will remove them sooner or later. However, if you can correct them, thats even better

[Ellyos]

Hmm, for the story, I search these data for 2 weeks now with no success...

I have some difficulties to understand the characters files... so, I had an idea (and a hope in fact)...

I browsed memory card save in hoping all characters were present in save even if not recruited... and they are !
They are all level 1, even Ted and Odessa.

Here are the data template for one char (takes 80 bytes / char), with my Teel McDohl as example :
[08] : character ID. It's the 1st byte in the .bin player file in DATA/04_PLAY (SHU.BIN for McDohl)
[00 00 00] : dunno yet, probably : poison, dead and balloon status

Then come stats :
[D3 02 | D3 02] : current Hp | Max Hp -> here 723/723 (D3 02 must be read 02D3)
[00] : not identified
[09 07 06 04] : remaining MP
[46] : Level -> here 70
[F1 01] : Xp -> here 497
[A6 | C5 | 9F | B9 | AF | A9] : stats (PWR, SKL, DEF, SPD, MAG, LCK) -> here 166 | 197 | 159 | 185 | 175 | 169
[00 00] : not identified
[06 07 05 07 06 06 05] : seems to be the lvl up factor for stats (pwr skl def spd mag lck hp)

Then inventory :
[08] : number of items in inventory.
[29 00 04 00] : 1st item in inventory | ?? | gear slot (special code for fixed item) | Qty -> here : Crimson cape - Other 1
[1F 00 05 00] : 2nd item -> Earth boots - Other 2
[17 00 02 00] : 3rd item -> Master Garb - Body
[07 00 01 00] : 4th item -> Silver hat - Head
[51 00 00 00] : 5th item -> Blinking Mirror
[48 00 00 03] : 6th item -> Mega medicine - 3
[49 00 00 01] : 7th item -> Escape Talisman - 1 (note Krin and Stallion have the last byte at 00 so it's unlimited use)
[53 00 00 00] : 8th item -> Sacrificial Buddha
[96 00 00 00] : 9th item -> Prosperity Crystal (Not there anymore since only 8 items are in inventory, but it was the last item at this place. Empty slot doesn't overwrite old item)

Now weapons :
[01] : weapon ID -> here "wolf fang staff" id
[10] : weapon level -> here 16
[04] : fragment rune piece attached -> here thunder rune piece
[00 00 00 03 00] : Qty rune piece (fire, water, earth, thunder, wind) -> here thunder x3 (note that wind rune piece is counted in earth slot since their names are switched). previous rune piece are not memorized and put at 00 when a new one is attached.

And now the rune :
[01 00] : Rune type | fixed ? -> here Soul Eater (fixed is not define here, maybe it's no need for this one)
[00 00] : not identified

The recruited data is not here, it's just after the last character data : 110 bytes of 00 or 01 for recruited or not (ted and odessa for the 109th and 110th).

EDIT : By the way, that could be nice if some authors of the stats growth character table could pass by here. And if someone could post some memory card data to see if we have same...

[Celes]

Great findings!

So a "blank" file contains actually all character stats at level 1?

While testing the initial characters levels, I guessed that the char receives invisible level-ups by the time of recruitment. For example, Kasumi who always joins at lv38, can have different stats each time.

[Ellyos]

For example, Kasumi who always joins at lv38, can have different stats each time.

Yes and it's why I was sure they had level 1 stats (that + chars who join at 'Mcdohl lvl + X')

[nrehc]

[06 07 05 07 06 06 05] : seems to be the lvl up factor for stats (pwr skl def spd mag lck hp)

Exactly,those numbers are actually Stats Growth pattern and there should be 9 rank for it.
For example:
stats at lv90
05=B 210
06=C 190
07=D 170

[ninjaluc79]

Here:

Suikoden_1_Stats.zip

You are welcome.

[Celes]

What is the meaning of the 1 column in the MP Table chart for HP and stats compared to the Level 1 chart?

I don't get the STAT list of the MP Table... Are these average increasements?

[ninjaluc79]

Ah, the 1 column in the STAT area is supposed to be the level 1 stats for each rank. However, S1 starting stats are not uniform, but I still use the S2 engine to determine S1's final stats. So, yeah, average increments. I'm not even sure myself, because randomness is pretty much the only thing that can screw up stat rankings.

[Celes]

So the Level 1 table shows the true beginning stats? I mean, for each chars starting at lv 1, they are always the same, or not?

For others, they just got level-ups by the time of recruitement, resulting in different starting stats every time.

Could you extract the min/max values rather then the average?

Btw, Gremios PWR is quite interesting. I wonder whether this was done on purpose or not.

[ninjaluc79]

Obviously not, as some characters have stats lower than 10. It's in Suikoden 2 that all characters have a more uniform range of initial stats. Suikoden 1 has a wider range of initial stats: it can be as low as 1 (Ronnie Bell's MAG for example) or as high as 35 (Humphrey's HP).

I have a hunch about Gremio's PWR: The devs probably intended Gremio to have 06 STR, but an error made Gremio's PWR growth look like this:

Level 20-59: 0-1
Level 60-99: 2-3

Instead of an 06 rank as follows:

Level 20-59: 2-3
Level 60-99: 0-1

But what if it's intentional? They probably did that as an oversight in case the player was not able to get all 108 SoDs, and by the end-game there are hundreds of party combinations to choose from. And even if they do get Gremio back, almost everyone would never think of using him again as there are probably late recruits whom the player have been used to.

Looking at a certain piece of code, however, it seems to be intentional. Maybe Pyriel can take a look at that one?

[Celes]

That's what I meant. Tir has always 13 PWR at level 1, while Viktor on the other hand, who doens't start at level 1, gets always his level-ups by the time of redruitment, correct?

Perhaps they tried to make Gremio the only character which actually gets strong boosts beyond lv 60. By the time you get him back, he will be almost instantly at lv 60 in gregminster.

[KFCrispy]

even if it was a mistake, it's become a tradition. there are some characters, most notably Gremio and Snowe, who end up having good growth for a stat after level 60. here are some others i can think of...
1: Gremio/STR
2: Chuchura/PROT - i don't think our own stat growth guide has it but someone at gamefaqs or maybe in our forums mentioned Chuchura's PROT goes up a lot after level 60.... i never got around to checking this
3: not sure about stat growth (has anyone really tested?) but there are several characters with 'slow growth' in skills who will max out at A+ with a lot of SP (Thomas, Cecile, and Melville to name a few).
4: Snowe/STR+SKL+SPD! (wow i thought it was just STR), Chiepoo/STR
Tactics: Nalleo (STR maybe other stats), Eugene (several stats?)

[ninjaluc79]

Hmm. I see. So Magikarp stats are commonplace in Suikoden, huh?