Guaranteed Celadon Urn and Octopus Urn. [PSN]

A forum to ask questions if you are stuck in the The Gate Rune Wars; or wish for more clarity on the gameplay systems.
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Shinjiro
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Guaranteed Celadon Urn and Octopus Urn. [PSN]

Post by Shinjiro »

Hello! I'm a new user here, but I've been a longtime Suikoden fan, and I decided to pick up the game again for some reason.

With the help of speedrunner Z3R01337, I managed to isolate a pattern in Gregminster that will lead to a 3 BonBon fight on the World Map and will drop a guaranteed Celadon Urn (or Octopus Urn, with some differences in attack patterns). However, for this to work, you'll need a Holy Rune. Linked is Z3R01337's video for getting a Holy Rune (and a Celadon Urn to get you started) on PSN/PS3:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZehgKXu5h

With that out of the way, you will need to do a HARD RESET every time. Not a soft reset, but using [Reset Game] on the PS3/PSP menu for each item.

The only requirements for this to work are:
Have the full 5-man party (Tir, Ted, Gremio, Cleo, Pahn) and your party at Lv. 6 (Pahn included) so that their SPD is higher than the BonBons
Your save file to begin from your room, not Maria's Inn.

For the pathing pattern in Gregminster:

First, step out of your house, then DASH BACK IN.

Now, hold dash and exit again and hold Left. When you've almost reached the fountain, go Down, and Left again when you are below the old man by the fountain.

This is the part that will require some precision. When Tir's sprite reaches halfway into the old man's sprite, GO DOWN IMMEDIATELY to the exit to the World Map.

If done correctly, your first encounter should be 3 BonBons. if not, HARD RESET.

You will have to follow these steps EXACTLY if you want the desired drops. If not, you might get a different item, or nothing at all.

For Celadon Urn:

TURN 1: ALL UNITS DEFEND
TURN 2: Have Ted attack the first BonBon on the list, and everyone else Defend.
TURN 3: USE FREE WILL

For Octopus Urn:

TURN 1: ALL UNITS DEFEND
TURN 2: USE FREE WILL

They will drop the Celadon Urn/Octopus Urn EVERY TIME. Save at your room in your house and HARD RESET for the next one.
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YokoRidnour
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Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2022 3:47 pm

Re: Guaranteed Celadon Urn and Octopus Urn. [PSN]

Post by YokoRidnour »

By chance do you have a video of this???
I've been trying to get the 3 BonBon battle for over an hour, but am convinced I'm doing something 'off'... However, I'm not sure what it could be because (as far as I know) I'm following your directions perfectly at least some of the time.
I keep fighting 3 Mosquitoes & a Red Soldier Ant whether I feel I've followed your instructions perfectly or not. The only difference being the Overworld 'step count' before getting into battle...
I know with RNG, even the slightest difference can drastically alter EVERYTHING!! So, I'm hoping you could maybe provide us with a bit more information (again, a video would help tremendously πŸ˜…). Who has the Holy Rune equipped? What order are the characters in your lineup - same as you acquire them? Etc.
I pray that you're still a regular on this site, and can help me out here... If this proves to be a true RNG method - you're going to be the envy of the Suikoden community!! I'll also gladly shout this from the rooftops - giving you proper credit of course!
1/256 Item Drops should be considered S&M.
-The struggle is real. I can say that a 9-Tailed Whip, Goo King Sword, & Pink Tail never hurt so good...
Z3R01337
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Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2016 6:06 am

Re: Guaranteed Celadon Urn and Octopus Urn. [PSN]

Post by Z3R01337 »

What system are you playing on? These Celadon / Holy rune setups change depending on what BIOS you are using, because the starting RNG value off a reset is different on different BIOS.

Here's a fixed link for the initial Holy/Celadon for PS3/PSN: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZehgKX ... 8k94AaABAg
If you're on PSP/PSTV you can follow what we do in the speedrun, I'll try to find a good video to reference for you. If you're on PS1/PS2/Emu, the video linked in here might be of help. https://www.speedrun.com/suikoden/thread/5t8ek
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YokoRidnour
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Re: Guaranteed Celadon Urn and Octopus Urn. [PSN]

Post by YokoRidnour »

Z3R01337 - Thanks for the quick response, and for the sweet Celadon Urn/Holy Rune method! I was able to get them quite easily yesterday after searching for your video a bit. Well, I kept bumping into the fountain, but once I followed the path correctly... πŸ˜…
I'm actually having trouble with the follow-up RNG method that Shinjiro posted above. I want to get a total of 6 Celadon Urns, & 6 Octopus Urns for my so-called 'Perfect File'. The thing is, I'd rather use a simple RNG method - rather than grind BonBons for untold hours! πŸ€―πŸ˜΅β€πŸ’«
Given your knowledge & experience with RNG manipulation, would you be able to try their method out? Maybe you would know what triggers the 3 BonBon battle in this scenario (that I keep missing)? Once that part is down, the battle commands sound simple enough to follow.
Any help would be greatly appreciated!
1/256 Item Drops should be considered S&M.
-The struggle is real. I can say that a 9-Tailed Whip, Goo King Sword, & Pink Tail never hurt so good...
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YokoRidnour
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Re: Guaranteed Celadon Urn and Octopus Urn. [PSN]

Post by YokoRidnour »

Z3R01337 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 18, 2022 5:04 pm What system are you playing on?
Sorry! I'm playing on PS3/PSN
1/256 Item Drops should be considered S&M.
-The struggle is real. I can say that a 9-Tailed Whip, Goo King Sword, & Pink Tail never hurt so good...
Z3R01337
Posts: 62
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2016 6:06 am

Re: Guaranteed Celadon Urn and Octopus Urn. [PSN]

Post by Z3R01337 »

Glad to hear part of it worked for you! I can take a look at it later tonight and get back to you
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YokoRidnour
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Re: Guaranteed Celadon Urn and Octopus Urn. [PSN]

Post by YokoRidnour »

That would be awesome! Thank you.
1/256 Item Drops should be considered S&M.
-The struggle is real. I can say that a 9-Tailed Whip, Goo King Sword, & Pink Tail never hurt so good...
Z3R01337
Posts: 62
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2016 6:06 am

Re: Guaranteed Celadon Urn and Octopus Urn. [PSN]

Post by Z3R01337 »

I couldn't get Shinjiro's to work for me, but I came up with one of my own.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7KNlYLf58o

Instructions: Take note of your 2 fastest characters. Must be faster than BonBons (16SPD) and strong enough to one shot BonBons. Note that you also need 5 characters in your party for these fights to work.

Save & Hard Reset in your house, load the save.
Run left till birds are scared, then down then left. Make sure never to bonk.
Once past old man run down to exit Gregminster. Make sure you don't hit the left side of the gate. All movement must be done running, without stopping.

Celadon:
T1 Fastest character Attack rest Defend
T2 Free Will

Octopus:
T1 2 Fastest characters Attack BonBons 1&2 rest defend. (targets don't matter, just that they're different.
T2 Free Will
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YokoRidnour
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Re: Guaranteed Celadon Urn and Octopus Urn. [PSN]

Post by YokoRidnour »

Thank you immensely for figuring this out!!
The amount of time you saved me could literally be measured in DAYS!! Usually? I don't mind grinding for unknown lengths of time to get Rare Items or Equipment in any RPG I play, but that's usually at the end of a game (when all that's left is the Final Dungeon, or maybe an optional Super Boss). By then there are multiple areas/enemies in which to farm to keep things a little more 'fresh', but the first Suikoden is different - if a player wants these Urns? They're forced to get them VERY early on, otherwise BonBons disappear forever. Meaning an Equipment Completionist/Perfectionist like myself can't progress in the game until this 'challenge' is dealt with...
Furthermore, the tutorial you gave made this a lot easier for me than even the initial Celadon Urn/Holy Rune RNG was! I had very little trouble getting this to work. It's a little tough to move precisely during the quick running cycle, but that was my own trial & error... all 12 Urns (well, 13 - I sold a Celadon Urn to get the appraisal fees to cover the other 12) took less than half an hour. Would you mind if I shared the majority of this topic over on GameFAQs? I know there are many players who would lose their minds over this find! Also, Suikoden II might have 'limited time' drops as well - could I maybe bug you again later on if that's the case? It's been ages since I've played either of these classics, so I can't remember at the moment!

Again, thank you for figuring this out for me - that Editing Software you're using looks pretty amazing! I'll bet one could get every single drop in ANY game with ease... Although, as a Speedrunner - you probably use it for completely different reasons! Which made me think - isn't it wonderful how a game that's 25+ years old can still attract players with totally different play styles?
With speedrunning a game, time is everything: battles, dungeons, story scenes - most things can (and will) be skipped entirely - all in the name of that gorgeous Low Number on the clock. Whereas, I'm the exact opposite - I can't count the number of game clocks I've maxed out over the years! Fun Fact: The timer in Final Fantasy IX changes from 99:59 back to 00:00 - only in red font... All I care about is Rare Equipment - well, I also do every possible storyline & sidequest too!
1/256 Item Drops should be considered S&M.
-The struggle is real. I can say that a 9-Tailed Whip, Goo King Sword, & Pink Tail never hurt so good...
Z3R01337
Posts: 62
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2016 6:06 am

Re: Guaranteed Celadon Urn and Octopus Urn. [PSN]

Post by Z3R01337 »

Glad I could help :) I'd thought about making my own drop manips for various stuff to share, but always held off because of all the version difference issues.
Feel free to share wherever! As for Suikoden II, sadly there's currently no relevant RNG manipulation possible at the moment. The best I've ever been able to do is manipulate Jowy's LVL2 speed stat.
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YokoRidnour
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Re: Guaranteed Celadon Urn and Octopus Urn. [PSN]

Post by YokoRidnour »

I had another question about your initial Holy Rune RNG - would there be a way to manipulate the battle differently if both Tir & Ted were on Lv. 7, & Tir's weapon was sharpened once? While also getting the Holy Rune to drop?
The reason I'm asking is because I forgot about the initial Fortune Rune/Prosperity Rune you can get from Sarady. In order to get it, you need to travel through Mt. Tigerwolf BEFORE recruiting Gremio, Pahn & Cleo... I tried doing this without fighting anything, but barely made it to Sarady. I've tried for almost 2 hours to get Lv. 1 Tir & Ted back to Gregminster, but they keep dying on Mt. Tigerwolf (must have got lucky passing through the first time).
So I made a separate file where they made it to Lv. 7 - and then returned to Gregminster to reunite with my Lv. 1 Gremio, Pahn & Cleo. I was hoping to do all my Item farming now, but the Holy Crystal won't drop using your original method (Tir & Ted are too powerful now). πŸ’ͺπŸ€”

I know this is definitely a case of 'having my cake & eating it too', but I would be beyond greatful if you could help me out once more!! πŸ™

In the meantime I'll start another file, and try to only Lv. Up Tir until he's just shy of 1-Hitting a Mosquito. I'll stop Leveling him then. My theory is that he'll be able to run from enemies at Mt. Tigerwolf easier, but STILL be able to function properly during the Holy Rune RNG battle. 🀞
1/256 Item Drops should be considered S&M.
-The struggle is real. I can say that a 9-Tailed Whip, Goo King Sword, & Pink Tail never hurt so good...
Z3R01337
Posts: 62
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2016 6:06 am

Re: Guaranteed Celadon Urn and Octopus Urn. [PSN]

Post by Z3R01337 »

YokoRidnour wrote: ↑Tue Jul 19, 2022 8:31 pm In the meantime I'll start another file, and try to only Lv. Up Tir until he's just shy of 1-Hitting a Mosquito. I'll stop Leveling him then. My theory is that he'll be able to run from enemies at Mt. Tigerwolf easier, but STILL be able to function properly during the Holy Rune RNG battle. 🀞
I don't think this will work, as the differences in his SPD and possibly other stats will change the battle. I'm not going to make another setup either, the variance with stats and what not makes it tedious, and I don't really want to invest the time into finding another one.

IMO you can do this 2 ways: Go to Rockland, and make some money with Marco. Then use that to bribe through Mt.Tigerwolf. Or, you can try to Farm a Fortune/Prosperity Crystal later. Fortune is sold in Kirov IIRC, and also dropped by enemies in Moravia Castle. Prosperity is dropped by Sirens in the Kirov WM area.
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YokoRidnour
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Re: Guaranteed Celadon Urn and Octopus Urn. [PSN]

Post by YokoRidnour »

Z3R01337 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 19, 2022 10:51 pm I don't think this will work, as the differences in his SPD and possibly other stats will change the battle. I'm not going to make another setup either, the variance with stats and what not makes it tedious, and I don't really want to invest the time into finding another one.
Well no, I wouldn't expect you to do all that! πŸ˜…
I recently spent 4 months going through Final Fantasy IV: The After Years (WiiWare), and most of that time was spent discovering new RNG Drop methods. Sometimes I could change the outcome with only a couple button presses (what I was hoping for here). Other times I would have to alter 10-15 battle turns to ensure a Rare/Alternate item dropping!
What I'm getting at - is that I know exactly how tedious these endeavors can be... πŸ˜΅β€πŸ’«πŸ€―
No worries!! You've already done plenty in finding those other 3 drop methods!
Z3R01337 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 19, 2022 10:51 pm IMO you can do this 2 ways: Go to Rockland, and make some money with Marco. Then use that to bribe through Mt.Tigerwolf. Or, you can try to Farm a Fortune/Prosperity Crystal later. Fortune is sold in Kirov IIRC, and also dropped by enemies in Moravia Castle. Prosperity is dropped by Sirens in the Kirov WM area.
πŸ€¦β€β™‚οΈ ...yeah, I'm going to (sheepishly) admit something: I haven't gone through this game personally since 2005 I wanna say.
Still - how could I forget about Bribing? You know, one of the basic game mechanics?! I mean, it's RIGHT UNDER the Run command I was constantly selecting earlier. 🀣🀣🀣
Farming later on is always a good option too - I'm sure I'll be doing plenty of that soon enough!
In any case, a solution has been found - and I thank you kindly for leading me to it!
Last edited by YokoRidnour on Wed Jul 20, 2022 3:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
1/256 Item Drops should be considered S&M.
-The struggle is real. I can say that a 9-Tailed Whip, Goo King Sword, & Pink Tail never hurt so good...
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YokoRidnour
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Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2022 3:47 pm

Re: Guaranteed Celadon Urn and Octopus Urn. [PSN]

Post by YokoRidnour »

Z3R01337 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 19, 2022 4:44 pm Glad I could help :) I'd thought about making my own drop manips for various stuff to share, but always held off because of all the version difference issues.
I missed seeing this post earlier!
Yeah man, it can be pretty fun! I mentioned my RNG discoveries from FFIV: TAY earlier, but sadly, most players won't benefit from them (despite my posting them). This is mainly due to the WiiWare version never getting a physical release, and most preferring the PSP version's aesthetics... I only tinkered with the Wii version because it's the one I already owned!
Z3R01337 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 19, 2022 4:44 pm Feel free to share wherever! As for Suikoden II, sadly there's currently no relevant RNG manipulation possible at the moment. The best I've ever been able to do is manipulate Jowy's LVL2 speed stat.
Okay! I'll probably post about the Urns & Runes on there sometime tomorrow - giving due credit, of course. πŸ‘
As for Suikoden II having unknown RNG - that's fine. Like I said, I'm a glutton for digital punishment - bring on the tedium!!
-I just hope there's no missable drops in the VERY beginning of the 2nd game...
1/256 Item Drops should be considered S&M.
-The struggle is real. I can say that a 9-Tailed Whip, Goo King Sword, & Pink Tail never hurt so good...
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