Crimson Cape is Free

A forum to ask questions if you are stuck in the The Gate Rune Wars; or wish for more clarity on the gameplay systems.
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TurbidCurrent
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Crimson Cape is Free

Post by TurbidCurrent »

If you all don't mind, thought I'd post some formations that I have tried to get some hard to get items. In this post, I will be discussing the Crimson Cape algorithm that I found where I can get 1 Crimson Cape every 3 minutes. I was actually trying to find a Thunder Rune formation when I discovered it. My party is as follows:
FR- Tir, Flik (Cyclone), Viktor (Killer)
BR- Clive (Killer), Quincy (Double-Beat), Stallion

The process:

Step 1: Warp to Rockland from HQ and save at the Inn.
Step 2: travel from Rockland to Mt. Seifu. Walk straight up into the grassy mountain side in Mt. Seifu then leave. (I "Dash" up since I have Stallions Rune, not sure if this is relevant or not.)
Step 3: Enter your first fight and if it's 2 Simurgh's, kill with the "Storm" spell from Flik's Cyclone Rune, defend with everyone else and proceed to step 4. If it is anything else, repeat steps 1-3 until you get into a fight where your first battle is 2 Simurgh's upon leaving Mt. Seifu.
Step 4: Battle with 3 Simurgh's; kill with Flik's Cyclone Rune, defend with everyone else.
Step 5: Battle with 3 Ninja Masters and 1 Orc; Kill with Tir's Hell Spell, defend with everyone else.
Step 6: Here is where things get interesting... there are 3 possible battle formations that will appear and I'm not sure what determines the RNG on this one. Your options are either 2 Simurgh's and 3 Ninja Masters (very rare), 1 Simurgh and 3 Ninja Masters (common) or 1 Orc (not as common). If either of them are the Ninja Master/Simurgh combinations then defeat with Flik's Storm spell, defend with everyone else. If a single Orc, choose to Let Go. The next battle will be the same as long as you follow those steps.
Step 7: Battle with 1 Simurgh. Let Go. As tempting as it is to go for a Thunder Rune drop - I'm sure certain you can get one here - choose to let go since the next battle is...
Step 8: Battle with 3 Ninja Masters; use Tir's Hell spell, defend with everyone else. Enemy drops Crimson Cape.
Step 9: Return to Rockland, Save and Reset. Load Game AND THEN REST to replenish your MP. It's crucial to do this after you save and not before you save as I found that resting and then saving will change up the RNG.

Repeat.

And that is it. I will try that Step 7 Battle after I harvest all the Crimson Capes I need to see if it leads to some Thunder Rune drops.
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TurbidCurrent
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Re: Crimson Cape is Free

Post by TurbidCurrent »

Btw, just found out that it is possible to get another Crimson Cape from the Step 6 formation of 1x Simurgh and 3x Ninja Master, thus allowing you for 2x Crimson Cape per run! Also, on extremely rare occasions, a group of 3x Orcs will replace the Step 5 battle formation. Just Let Go and the rest of the path will be normal. Sorry I forgot to mention.
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TurbidCurrent
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Re: Crimson Cape is Free

Post by TurbidCurrent »

A couple of things to note while I'm running this...

1. If you do not Dash out of Rockland after resting, you have a chance to encounter a formation of 1x Orc and 3x Ninja Masters before you can enter Mt. Seifu. If this happens, perform a Hard Reset repeat the steps.
2. After winning the Crimson Cape from the 3 Ninja Masters, there is a small chance of entering a battle with 3x Simurgh if you are too far away from Rockland. This will alter the RNG and reset the formation so reset if this happens. (Stay reasonably close to Rockland when farming.)
3. What determines getting an additional Crimson Cape from the battle mentioned with the 1x Simurgh and the 3x Ninja Master is where the Simurgh's wings are in the air when you hit it with "Storm". You want it to be in a place so that it registers as the Simurgh getting hit last, so that the Ninja Master all the way to the right (the one containing the Crimson Cape) is hit and killed first. A little tricky to time but possible.
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TurbidCurrent
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Re: Crimson Cape is Free

Post by TurbidCurrent »

Okay... the way to ensure that the 1x Simurgh and 3x Ninja Master group also drops a Crimson Cape is as follows:

Have Tir select "Hell" as his command, which will move to Flik. Next, hit Circle so that it cancels Tir's previous command. Have Tir defend, have Flik cast "Storm" like normal, defend with everyone else like normal and you will get a Crimson Cape from the battle. So with this path you can gain 2 Crimson Capes every 3 minutes.
borjitasstoi
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Re: Crimson Cape is Free

Post by borjitasstoi »

you tell me you find cloning item glitch or crimson case its particular case?
Z3R01337
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Re: Crimson Cape is Free

Post by Z3R01337 »

You should mention what version of the game/console you're playing on since each one generally has a different starting RNG value.
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TurbidCurrent
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Re: Crimson Cape is Free

Post by TurbidCurrent »

Z3R01337 wrote: Wed Jul 25, 2018 10:47 pm You should mention what version of the game/console you're playing on since each one generally has a different starting RNG value.
My apologies. I am playing on the PSN version. I do have the one on regular playstation as well, but this is the version I'm using. I haven't played in a couple of days, but the Taikioku Wear is next up on my list. This one seems to be a more difficult pattern to try as even after restarting from a save in DK Fort after acquiring the Taikioku Wear, you have to reset to a specific cycle and hope that it's the right one, as there are 2 other nearly identical monster formations that lead to the battles necessary. Still working on Taikioku Wear.

As for the Crimson Cape, my methods above are correct and accurate to manipulate the RNG on the PSN version.
Z3R01337
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Re: Crimson Cape is Free

Post by Z3R01337 »

No problem. Just don't want people having trouble with this because it's on a different version :)

Here's something that might help you. It's a tool I wrote to help me figure out RNG manipulations for speedrunning. For PS3 PSN, the starting RNG after a hard reset is 0x0. The Item Drop tool isn't as useful if you're not on emulator but you could probably use the encounter tool to figure out the best way to get the battle you want.

https://ak505188.github.io/SuikodenRNG-React/#/
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TurbidCurrent
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Re: Crimson Cape is Free

Post by TurbidCurrent »

Z3R01337 wrote: Thu Jul 26, 2018 7:47 pm No problem. Just don't want people having trouble with this because it's on a different version :)

Here's something that might help you. It's a tool I wrote to help me figure out RNG manipulations for speedrunning. For PS3 PSN, the starting RNG after a hard reset is 0x0. The Item Drop tool isn't as useful if you're not on emulator but you could probably use the encounter tool to figure out the best way to get the battle you want.

https://ak505188.github.io/SuikodenRNG-React/#/
Nice! Thank you! I was going to work on a number system involving runes where as rune spell x = 1, 2, 3, etc. and determine that value to see which groups I would get. So far, Cyclone rune and Hell combo have helped quite a bit in normalizing a specific continuous pattern. I suspect that each rune spell has it's own value that determines which formation groups to jump to. I also suspect that to have a more consistent flow in manipulating which formation groups will have a favorable outcome, also determines if the enemy is weak to said magic, strong, immune or neutral. I want to say that Neutral yields the best results, but haven't tested with other magic types since Storm and the the Shredding along with Hell work wonders in getting a specific formation that I want. I also noticed that you can still gain the Crimson Cape above, by hitting the single Sigmurgh battle above with a Shredding spell and ending the 2 master ninja formation afterwards with Flik's Storm spell rather than Tir's Hell spell.

The issue with the Taikioku Wear item is that crossing the world map to Seek Valley resets the RNG as well. I suspect that performing a reset, followed by entering the Dragon's Den, letting go of enemies on the way there and back will reset to the proper formation group. See... you want to get into your first fight with 3 Rock Busters, then defend with everyone but Flik, use his Storm spell then on the 2nd round hit him with Black Shadow from Tir while also selecting the Storm spell from Flik, but Tir's speed has to be greater so that he goes first and ends the fight. The issue is that Black Shadow can lead to 3 separate formation groups that also yield another 3 Rock Buster group, one of which gives you the Taikioku Wear, and one that gives you nothing. By having Storm queued up, it eliminates one of those formation groups. You end that second one promptly with a Hell spell and defend with everyone else. I am in the first area with the dragon and the clouds in the background, and I somehow feel that the clouds also determine which groups may show up. Seek Valley is a strange place. Seems like there is so much that influences the RNG there. The only consistent thing is that the first 3 Rock Buster formation is on the 4th fight always.
Z3R01337
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Re: Crimson Cape is Free

Post by Z3R01337 »

So first thing first, the issue with going world map to Seek Valley isn't that RNG resets itself (I wish it did, would make my life easier.) You're getting different results because RNG advances every frame on screens with moving NPCs, generally once per NPC. So unless you always enter Dragon Knight Fortress on the same RNG and move to Red the same way everytime, you'll always get a different Seek Valley. The best way to get consistent RNG in this case is to save and hard reset at the save crystal in Seek Valley. There's no NPCs here, so the only way RNG advances is via steps and battles.

Also, think I found a setup for you. I kinda hacked this together on emulator but I think it'll work.

Party:
6 People, second fastest person has to have a Thunder Rune with at least 1 level 4 spell. I used Luc here. Also, don't think it matters but I had 2 people slower than the RockBusters. Not sure if you need 6 people either, but I tested with these conditions. Also, make sure you don't have a Champion's Rune equipped and make sure that your party is strong enough to Let Go of fights here (or bring lots of money for bribes).

Save at the crystal in Seek Valley, hard reset (on PS3 pressing the PS menu and Reset Game works as a hard reset.) Load this save, make sure not to load a different one first or you'll need to hard reset again.

Run around to get into battles, this will be the sequence.
1. 1 QueenAnt (Run/Let Go)
2. 2 Ivy 1 Rockbuster (Run/Let Go)
3. 2 Ivy 1 Wyvern (Let Go/Bribe)
4. 2 Rockbuster (This is the target)
Have 2nd fastest person with Thunder Rune Thunder God.
This should get you Taikioku Wear

You can now save at the crystal and hard reset and do it again, until you run out of level 4 spells on your Thunder Mage. You can then leave, heal, come back, save, hard reset, and do it all again.

Magic is good for setting up because it generally advances the RNG by the same amount very consistently. Storm always advances RNG by the same amount. Hell advances RNG by 10500 +-500 depending on what your current RNG was. And the screens in Seek Valley don't matter, it's all just on what RNG value you came in on and step counts/how you handle battles. If for some reason your pattern doesn't match mine, you can still save and hard reset in Seek Valley and you'll notice that you'll always get the same groups in the same order regardless of what screen you're on.

https://ak505188.github.io/SuikodenRNG- ... eek+Valley
This is what you're battles should look like btw off a hard reset.
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TurbidCurrent
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Re: Crimson Cape is Free

Post by TurbidCurrent »

Z3R01337 wrote: Thu Jul 26, 2018 10:41 pm So first thing first, the issue with going world map to Seek Valley isn't that RNG resets itself (I wish it did, would make my life easier.) You're getting different results because RNG advances every frame on screens with moving NPCs, generally once per NPC. So unless you always enter Dragon Knight Fortress on the same RNG and move to Red the same way everytime, you'll always get a different Seek Valley. The best way to get consistent RNG in this case is to save and hard reset at the save crystal in Seek Valley. There's no NPCs here, so the only way RNG advances is via steps and battles.

Also, think I found a setup for you. I kinda hacked this together on emulator but I think it'll work.

Party:
6 People, second fastest person has to have a Thunder Rune with at least 1 level 4 spell. I used Luc here. Also, don't think it matters but I had 2 people slower than the RockBusters. Not sure if you need 6 people either, but I tested with these conditions. Also, make sure you don't have a Champion's Rune equipped and make sure that your party is strong enough to Let Go of fights here (or bring lots of money for bribes).

Save at the crystal in Seek Valley, hard reset (on PS3 pressing the PS menu and Reset Game works as a hard reset.) Load this save, make sure not to load a different one first or you'll need to hard reset again.

Run around to get into battles, this will be the sequence.
1. 1 QueenAnt (Run/Let Go)
2. 2 Ivy 1 Rockbuster (Run/Let Go)
3. 2 Ivy 1 Wyvern (Let Go/Bribe)
4. 2 Rockbuster (This is the target)
Have 2nd fastest person with Thunder Rune Thunder God.
This should get you Taikioku Wear

You can now save at the crystal and hard reset and do it again, until you run out of level 4 spells on your Thunder Mage. You can then leave, heal, come back, save, hard reset, and do it all again.

Magic is good for setting up because it generally advances the RNG by the same amount very consistently. Storm always advances RNG by the same amount. Hell advances RNG by 10500 +-500 depending on what your current RNG was. And the screens in Seek Valley don't matter, it's all just on what RNG value you came in on and step counts/how you handle battles. If for some reason your pattern doesn't match mine, you can still save and hard reset in Seek Valley and you'll notice that you'll always get the same groups in the same order regardless of what screen you're on.

https://ak505188.github.io/SuikodenRNG- ... eek+Valley
This is what you're battles should look like btw off a hard reset.
Awesome stuff! I come across that formation every now and again, I think where my issue was is that I was using Hell on the 2 Ivy, 1 RB battle and again on the 2x RB. Thunder Rune seems to make sense as the RB's are weak to Thunder, maybe I'll run back to the Castle and bring Luc in place of Lorelai with a Thunder, or Crowley.
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TurbidCurrent
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Re: Crimson Cape is Free

Post by TurbidCurrent »

Swapped out Lorelai, Varkas and Sydonia for Gremio, Luc and Eileen (Thunder). Eileen gets four Thunder God spells, and she is the second highest in speed at level 57 with Wing Boots. Unfortunately Flik is rather fast so she just needs to stay 1 point ahead. Needless to say, Taikioku Wear everytime. Thank again. I'm going to toy around with the other RNG links a bit when I farm other items.
Z3R01337
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Re: Crimson Cape is Free

Post by Z3R01337 »

Yay! Glad it worked! I didn't test on an actual PS3 so I wasn't 100% sure. Sadly I haven't done the best job documenting my RNG finding, but you can read this if you want. It's a decent write up of all the RNG mechanics I knew at the time I wrote it.

https://github.com/ak505188/SuikodenRNG ... /README.md
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TurbidCurrent
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Re: Crimson Cape is Free

Post by TurbidCurrent »

I will keep track of some as I go along as well, I’ll check out that link a bit more in-depth when I get home. Nice work
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Re: Crimson Cape is Free

Post by TurbidCurrent »

Found a pattern for Master Garb. Have a party of Flik, Viktor, Pahn, Tir, Eileen and Gremio. Eileen has the Thunder Rune and is 2nd fastest party member, average level is 61.

1. Save at Moravia and hard reset then load game.
2. Fight random battles outside of Moravia
3. "Let Go" of 7 random battles, until you get a fight of 3 Mirage enemies. (Index 187 on your list, starting from 0x0 RNG.)
4. Defend with everyone, have Eileen cast Thunder God.
5. Let Go 2 of the next battles.
6. 2x EarthGolem (index 736), defend with everyone and have Eileen finish with a Thunder God spell to earn a Master Garb.
7. Return to Moravia, Rest, Save (fighting an enemy group in the castle on the way) and repeat.

You can also get a Master Garb from Index 1634 by using Tir's Hell spell, and sometimes you will encounter a single elite soldier who may drop a Rage Rune (haven't really bothered exploring that pattern). Seeing as how I'm only looking for Master Garbs I prefer the pattern above as it's quicker. Also, you may hit a random encounter inside of Moravia after your first save and then again going forward. Just let it go and count this battle towards one of the 7 battles you have to let go of, and you will eventually see the 3 Mirage enemies again.
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