I miss the Suikoden 1 Blacksmiths :(

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sticky-runes
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I miss the Suikoden 1 Blacksmiths :(

Postby sticky-runes » Mon Sep 25, 2017 6:01 am

Does anybody else think it was better to recruit multiple blacksmiths with different levels of skill, rather than just recruiting one blacksmith and finding him or her a bunch of different hammers?

I thought there was just something quite satisfying about bringing all the blacksmiths together in your castle to work alongside each other. Maas joins you because he's a fresh faced youngster just starting out and wants to prove himself. Meese takes time out from studying Dwarven smithing because Maas thinks you guys are OK. Mose joins because he's already part of the Liberation Army and feels some loyalty towards Odessa. Moose joins because everyone else has already and thinks f#ck it, I might as well come along. And Mace joins because he's proud to see all his students grown up and making their own way and yet working together for a cause. (Of course, your castle needs to be of appropriate size as well!)

But in every other game after that, you just get one blacksmith who you collect hammers for from treasure chests or townspeople who don't want them any more. Just doesn't have the same charm to it. Those Suikoden 1 blacksmiths felt like they were their own little guild and had their own backstory connection with each other. It was adorable.

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Re: I miss the Suikoden 1 Blacksmiths :(

Postby Antimatzist » Mon Sep 25, 2017 7:20 am

Yeah, it was nice, but it was also a strange mix of "let's use 5 characters for the same function, so we don't have to invent more characters" and a gameplay mechanic.

It's a bit more interesting than the hammers, but the blacksmiths are not fleshed out enough for my taste.

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sticky-runes
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Re: I miss the Suikoden 1 Blacksmiths :(

Postby sticky-runes » Mon Sep 25, 2017 12:59 pm

Mose was the only story line blacksmith as he forged the fire spears for us. The others were his associates, and I liked that. Kind of like how Tai Ho was a key character and he was associated with the optional pirate gang, or how Kirkis and Kuromimi were associated with Rubi and Gon.

What bugged me was in Suikoden 2 where we can't even recruit Tessai until we've practically finished the game and already collected most of the hammers. That seemed totally pointless. At least Maas could be recruited as soon as you got your HQ.

Plus, we could use these guys in combat. They may not have been remarkable fighters, but I liked having the option to place workers in the active party, like smiths and chefs and farmers, and have them using the tools of their trade as weapons. I thought it was boring when the later games only let us have them as tag along support characters.

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Re: I miss the Suikoden 1 Blacksmiths :(

Postby wataru14 » Mon Sep 25, 2017 10:31 pm

I like concept, but not the execution. I only ever used Moose and Mace to sharpen weapons and the others just stood there. When you get Maas, the Smiths in the local villagers are as skilled as he is and my regulars were already at the highest level he could do. Meese is only as good as the Dwarf Village Smith, and as soon as you finish the Great Forest chapter, you gain access to Teien, which has a blacksmith stronger than Mose (who you won't get for two more chapters). You can recruit Moose literally five minutes after you recruit Mose.

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Re: I miss the Suikoden 1 Blacksmiths :(

Postby ChikouStar » Wed Sep 27, 2017 10:15 am

I felt like the multiple blacksmiths was because they wanted to give you that function in your castle early on, but couldn't have the player grinding and massively overlevelling their weapons. Also, they must not yet have thought of the hammer system haha.

I think the hammer system actually works fairly better, it's a lot cleaner, and as mentioned, you have more room for other interesting characters, as opposed to basically five guys fulfilling one function. Not to say that the blacksmiths weren't interesting in their own right, they were, but it's a little like using five stars of destiny for the squirrels in SII or the dogs in SIII. Space could be used for much more interesting characters. They also didn't have as much personality as say the beavers from SV, but I suppose that's a function of the games coming out in different generations.

That being said, blacksmiths definitely need to be recruited earlier on in the game haha that's for sure.

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Re: I miss the Suikoden 1 Blacksmiths :(

Postby Roshambeaux89 » Wed Sep 27, 2017 2:25 pm

I love the idea of gathering members of different guilds and each person being a specialized in certain practices of a guild. So for smithing you could have someone who strictly upgrades weapons and improves their craft by bringing them to interact with other blacksmiths; one character could specialize in embedding weapons with runes; the final member of the blacksmith guild would allow you to craft customized armor and name them. I'm all for workers being able to participate in party battles as long as they're nerfed to the point where they don't become a real asset in fights but instead just provides novelty because I thought it was ridiculous for Hai Yo to have access to 3 runes and become a competent fighter with proper rune setups.

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sticky-runes
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Re: I miss the Suikoden 1 Blacksmiths :(

Postby sticky-runes » Wed Sep 27, 2017 5:02 pm

I never actually used Hai Yo. I'm guessing the Suikoden 2 team made him that powerful in combat because they loved chefs enough to go out of their way to create a whole sub game and sub story about them.

I would still love to see a return of multiple blacksmiths (not that we're getting any more Suikoden games) but maybe a family of them, like a daddy blacksmith, a daughter blacksmith, brother blacksmiths, a badass grandma blacksmith...

I guess another angle they could take is having blacksmiths who specialize in certain types of weapons, so a blacksmith who specializes in sword upgrades, and one who specializes in spears, and so on.

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Re: I miss the Suikoden 1 Blacksmiths :(

Postby AlOnZo » Thu Sep 28, 2017 11:42 am

Would of been delightful if they had former apprentices of Tessai dotted around the game at various points in the story to follow the Dwarves of Suikoden 1. Flesh it out it a little then Tessai comes home to see his former pupils excelling at the castle.

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sticky-runes
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Re: I miss the Suikoden 1 Blacksmiths :(

Postby sticky-runes » Thu Sep 28, 2017 1:45 pm

That blacksmith in Kuskus might as well have been a recruitable character. He's the nearest one to the home base so he's our go-to blacksmith for a big chunk of the game including the battle with Luca Blight, and he even levels up later on in the game, which is another reason to show how dumb they were to not let us recruit a blacksmith sooner. He says he's sick of blunting the Highlanders' weapons all the time, so he's probably got more reason to join us than most of the shopkeepers we have in our castle.


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