outsidexbox mentions Suikoden secret

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Oppenheimer
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outsidexbox mentions Suikoden secret

Postby Oppenheimer » Thu Sep 14, 2017 8:40 pm

Hey everyone! Suikoden got a mention on the Youtubes. I didn't actually know this fact about the encounter rate. Check it out:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCuUAAKObjw&t=0s

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Re: outsidexbox mentions Suikoden secret

Postby Antimatzist » Fri Sep 15, 2017 12:27 am

I think you never heard about it because it's not true. It's from a Murayama Interview I think and I guess that's how it's supposed to Work, but I never heard about it from true Suikoden maniacs.

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Re: outsidexbox mentions Suikoden secret

Postby Oppenheimer » Fri Sep 15, 2017 9:01 am

Regardless, the encounter rate on the map is actually very low so I was never bothered. It's nice that Suikosource got a mention though.

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Re: outsidexbox mentions Suikoden secret

Postby Raww Le Klueze » Mon Sep 25, 2017 11:58 pm

I'm going to have to actually test this cause I don't believe it.
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Re: outsidexbox mentions Suikoden secret

Postby Raww Le Klueze » Tue Sep 26, 2017 6:48 am

Ehhh, I don't think so.

I tested this briefly and my conclusion is that there doesn't seem to be a difference that can't be chalked up to random encounters being random. Now, the sample size is too small to say for certain but it's as far as I'm willing to test it until someone says the code reflects this being a thing at least.

First I tried walking on the world map for 60 second intervals, the first 60 being done by walking in a straight line between Seika and Forest Village only switching direction when about to enter either town, after that I pressed the direction buttons randomly for 60 seconds so there was no specific direction being headed in, then I repeated the process. That's 60 seconds on the map btw, I stopped the timer when a encounter happened and restarted when it was over and I used the Let Go command to end them all, allow some discrepency for human error and poor reflexes.

For the first sets of two I alternated between straight and zig-zag on the map, for the second set I entered Seika and restarted from there in case the game needed a reset to figure out if I was making a bee-line or not.

Straight: 5/5/6/5
Zig-Zag: 5/5/3/4

The results averages to about 5 encounters per 60 seconds spent on the world map regardless of method. And a full minute on the world map is more time than I think it takes to get anywhere in the game without having to enter a town/checkpoint to switch maps. Seika to Forest Village without encounters takes about 20 seconds.

But I tried a larger sample just in case, this time I spent 5 minutes on the world map (this time it includes the time spent on encounters to have them Let Go, so it's not full 5 minutes on the map itself) first by walking in a straight line between Seika and Forest Village and the once more just wandering aimlessly.

Straight line resulted in 16 encounters, and random wandering resulted in 19 which I think falls well within the discrepancy allowed for random events. I'd expect a much bigger difference if this secret actually worked.

Also, regardless of method used the game can either leave you alone for up to 20 seconds or throw an encounter at every 1-2 seconds, basically just letting you take a single step before a new encounter. On average it takes about 10 seconds from leaving Seika till the first encounter, fastest was about 7.5 and one instance where it took almost 20.

I think the game just has a rather generously low encounter rate.

Small note: When I tried it first I did the straight line thing and thought "Holy crap it actually works?!" but then I took off the Champion Rune...
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Re: outsidexbox mentions Suikoden secret

Postby Oppenheimer » Tue Sep 26, 2017 7:49 pm

Thanks for the test!

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Re: outsidexbox mentions Suikoden secret

Postby Pyriel » Sun Oct 22, 2017 8:02 pm

Looking at the code, I'm going to have to call bull on this.

What's going on is a little confusing at first glance, but it looks like they just check if you're on or within a positive step of several saved points. One of which is the last position you occupied, and others appear to be entry points where you're dropped onto or taken off of the world map. It also checks if you're within -5 steps of it, which is weird. It seems to give you some amount of grace if you're within 5 steps to the North or West, and 1 step to the East or South. Maybe I'm misreading something, because that seems bizarre. But it's hard to tell with the people who coded these games.

In any case, there's no strictly independent checks on the X or Y position in the random encounter routines, and both would have to be tracked somewhere, independently of the other, to determine the player was moving in a straight line. Furthermore, all I have to do to get encounters without moving (within about 5 frames after exiting the previous encounter) is force the function that does the final random trigger to return 1. That function makes no reference at all to position, and the only two calls it makes are to rand(), for a random number, and to an additional randomizer that also checks if the Champion Rune applies. If you could safely avoid enemies by walking in straight lines, even for a short while, I wouldn't expect to see constant encounters like that while standing still.

Within that random trigger, all it checks is step count, a map grace period, and a couple of other values that don't have anything to do with position or movement so far as I can tell. It's possible that way up the chain, one of them is a flag that indicates straight-line travel, but I didn't see anything like that on initial review. I just don't see this being real. If it is, they went way out of their way to achieve a minimal effect.


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