Suikoden IV Reboot-Demake

[ENDmyinitials]

if you had money which software would be easier?

[HolyPaladin]

if you had money which software would be easier?

Dunno. I'd have to research it, but I'd need a program good enough to read any sound file and separate the notes into the correct layers but without the sound files being previously encoded to make the layer and note separation process easier.

Basically, at maximum, the program needs to be plug and play, doing a lot of the heavy lifting for you. I'd imagine such a program would come at quite the premium.

[ENDmyinitials]

Find a good one, paid or free, and I'll get it for you.

[HolyPaladin]

Find a good one, paid or free, and I'll get it for you.

T...thanks ! I'll let you know as soon as possible !

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Btw, I kept Maxine with an S-rank Wind Magic because there's no pure mage available with that element, and it's kind of redundant to have her, Katarina, and Konrad all being fire mages.

Fire - Konrad
Wind - Maxine
Water - Lo Fong (not a pure mage but it's mostly healing/utility so MAG stat is not a big deal)
Earth - Warlock
Lightning - Jeane

How about we switch Konrad and Maxine's Affinity/Innate? I'd rather Maxine keep her connection from Tactics since it makes better sense for her to be a Fire Innate then to have a character who doesn't come back for Tactics to keep his S4 Innate. Besides that, now Konrad and Katarina's Unite will both become worth of the name Sorcerer Attack because their power and bond cause them to overcome the Elemental oppositions incapable of being Unite Magic and makes their Unite animation make sense (NOTE: Switched Konrad back to Fire and Maxine back to Wind, but keep this part of the post the same for posterity's sake).

So then the list would be:

Fire - Maxine
Wind - Konrad
Water - Lo Fong (Viki's a Water Innate now if you want a mage, but I like this choice better for diversity's sake)
Earth - Warlock
Lightning - Jeane

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Making Katarina and Konrad's Unite into a opposite Elemental Unite give me the idea of having some of the other Unites do the same thing, too. Also, in addition to one's already in S4, I thought up some more double Elemental Unites, as well. Unlike with magic, all Elemental Unites would do base Physical and/or Magical damage depending on each Unite participants primary stat and each element would act as its own separate additive bonus subject to an enemy's elemental weakness/resistance/nullification but not their elemental absorption.

Double Elemental Unites would count twice both on two separate occasions rather than at the same. So, for example, if we made the element portion of Unites subject to Earth Runes' magic cancelling effect, the first hit would clear the magic cancelling effect leaving the second element to hit for added damage; the opposite Elemental Unites would be subjected to the same rule, but which element is cancelled first would depend on who initiated the Unite.

(Speaking of different rules, Unite Magic should probably adhere to similar rules where each element is counted separately but is no long subject to element resistances thus making it ineffective to use on targets with multiple resistances.)

Anyway, here are my tentative ideas:

Opposite Elemental Unites

Fire & Water
Akaghi and Mizuki - Ninja Attack (Same Unite as before, but with added mist)

Water & Earth
Jewel and Axel - Na-Nalese Mudslide (Think a muddy version of the Knight Attack)

Wind & Fire
Reinhold and Misuba - Fools for Duels (Think reversed version of S3's Girl Unite where Reinhold is Sharon/Sanae Y. and Mitsuba is Emily)

Earth & Lightning
Champo and Nalkul - "Treasure Hunt" (Champo kicks up a dirtscreen, Nalkul uses it to steal items w/ Lightning-enhanced speed. Name's a tribute to FF6's Locke's "profession")

Lightning & Wind
Jango and Brec - Break Wind Blast (Brec breaks wind which Jango ignites with Lightning. Acts like FF's Bad Breath)


Double Elemental Unites

Fire & Fire
Konrad and Katarina - Sorcerer Attack (Same Unite as before, but with more Fire effects)
Lo Seng, Lo Fong, and Lo Haku - Lo Family Barbecue (Same Unite, different name; technically Triple Fire Unite)

Water & Water
Shiramine and Ugetsu - Fishermen Attack (Same Unite, different name)

Wind & Wind
Lazlo and Kika - Double Sword Attack (Same Unite as before)

Earth & Earth
Warlock and Pablo - Master and Pupil? Attack (A more ground-centric version of their Unite)

Lightning & Lightning
Jeane and Adrienne - Thor Shot (Adrienne leaps, hammer gets charged at apex, then slams hammer into a cluster of foes. Name's a tribute to S2's 3rd/4th Lightning spell)

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EDIT 1: Changed Konrad and Katarina to double Fire similar to what they were in S4 proper. Switched Mitsuba and Reinhold's Unite to take the place of Konrad and Katarina's Unite.
EDIT 2: Made edits for clarity's sake.

[BrucePrintscreen]

ProTools is what you need to fidget with music. Audacity is very generic.

I still think there should be one of the many versions of the pulsating theme you hear in dungeons in S1 and 2. If you do not think we should use the version from Tactics, let's use the version from S2. Or if someone feels like they can do it, let's make our own version of it: the basic beat is quite simple and the rest is ambient sound.

If I had the time I would do a jazz-fusion version of it

[sticky-runes]

I think we should stick to Suikoden 4's dungeon music. I know there were only about 2 caves in the whole game, but they did have an exotic/oceanic vibe to them.

[BrucePrintscreen]

I think we should stick to Suikoden 4's dungeon music. I know there were only about 2 caves in the whole game, but they did have an exotic/oceanic vibe to them.

We can keep S4's dungeon music for the preexisting ones, but when we add a dungeon perhaps it would be nice to stimulate some nostalgic feeling with the classic Suikoden dungeon theme? After all, we are re-making a 10 year-old game into a 20 year-old game, so nostalgia is part of the pleasure here.

We could use the classic Suikoden dungeon theme for, you know, that dungeon we just added in the beginning of the game and we are not talking about here not to spoil the player's surprise, you know?

[highwind44029]

Btw, I kept Maxine with an S-rank Wind Magic because there's no pure mage available with that element, and it's kind of redundant to have her, Katarina, and Konrad all being fire mages.

Fire - Konrad
Wind - Maxine
Water - Lo Fong (not a pure mage but it's mostly healing/utility so MAG stat is not a big deal)
Earth - Warlock
Lightning - Jeane

How about we switch Konrad and Maxine's Affinity/Innate? I'd rather Maxine keep her connection from Tactics since it makes better sense for her to be a Fire Innate then to have a character who doesn't come back for Tactics to keep his S4 Innate. Besides that, now Konrad and Katarina's Unite will both become worth of the name Sorcerer Attack because their power and bond cause them to overcome the Elemental oppositions incapable of being Unite Magic and makes their Unite animation make sense.

That sounds too convoluted compared to the obvious: Konrad is adept with Fire Magic, Katarina was his student. Their coop attack also mechanically deals Fire Magic because that's their element of choice. That makes far more sense.

I don't think we should take Tactics affinities as gospel. Remember: we're doing a demake of Suikoden IV, not Suikoden Tactics. In Suikoden IV, Maxine was programmed as a Wind Mage ('4' affinity in Wind Magic, Cyclone Rune equipped, kept destroying your party with The Shredding every time you fought her), and Konrad was programmed as a Fire Mage ('4' affinity in Fire Magic, Rage Rune equipped). To me, Suikoden IV affinities should be the basis for a demake of Suikoden IV. It's why I based everyone's skill caps on their S4 affinities, and only used Tactics as a reference for adjustments if I need to balance the elements a bit (for instance, there's no secondary Lightning magician to Jeane, so Kate and Rita are moved up to rank A based on their Tactics affinity.) Exception was made in Snowe coming in with a Fire Rune, but I decided to keep his skill rank as it is maxing out at C rank since it's only for early-game purposes.

[HolyPaladin]

ProTools is what you need to fidget with music. Audacity is very generic.

Thanks! I'll take a look into this one.

I still think there should be one of the many versions of the pulsating theme you hear in dungeons in S1 and 2. If you do not think we should use the version from Tactics, let's use the version from S2.

I wouldn't be opposed to using S2's version at all.

Or if someone feels like they can do it, let's make our own version of it: the basic beat is quite simple and the rest is ambient sound.

Would be the best idea, but while I have a good ear for music, the technical aspect of building a song from scratch escapes me at the moment.

If I had the time I would do a jazz-fusion version of it

Look forward to hearing it when you have the time !

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That sounds too convoluted compared to the obvious: Konrad is adept with Fire Magic, Katarina was his student. Their coop attack also mechanically deals Fire Magic because that's their element of choice. That makes far more sense.

I don't think we should take Tactics affinities as gospel. Remember: we're doing a demake of Suikoden IV, not Suikoden Tactics. In Suikoden IV, Maxine was programmed as a Wind Mage ('4' affinity in Wind Magic, Cyclone Rune equipped, kept destroying your party with The Shredding every time you fought her), and Konrad was programmed as a Fire Mage ('4' affinity in Fire Magic, Rage Rune equipped). To me, Suikoden IV affinities should be the basis for a demake of Suikoden IV. It's why I based everyone's skill caps on their S4 affinities, and only used Tactics as a reference for adjustments if I need to balance the elements a bit (for instance, there's no secondary Lightning magician to Jeane, so Kate and Rita are moved up to rank A based on their Tactics affinity.) Exception was made in Snowe coming in with a Fire Rune, but I decided to keep his skill rank as it is maxing out at C rank since it's only for early-game purposes.

While a part of me would rather be stubborn about sticking closer to Tactics conventions, especially as far as Maxine and Konrad are concerned, a better part sees the reason in what your saying so I'll go along with it. Besides that, even I realized that changing Konrad to Wind to keep Maxine as Fire was tenuous at best even more so when it came to Konrad's and Katarina's Unite. Speaking of Unites, I'll change the Sorceror Attack back to double Fire and find someone else for Fire & Wind.

On the other hand, the Kate, Rita, and Snowe points sound great to me; I always did see it as a shame that Jeane is the only strong Lightning mage, especially come Tactics, and your reasoning on Snowe's rank is great since he isn't that good of a mage.

That said, I will say, at the very least, I do have a preference for using the Innates I chose for the Naval Battles; having to make sure all your fighters had Runes equipped to even use Rune Cannons in game where you can't equip everyone at once like in S2 and S3 was too much of a chore to make the same mistake in the Demake (I'll also make sure to change Maxine to Wind on my Innates list). Besides that, I really don't want all my hard work to go waste after I spent many sleepless nights on it.

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I think we should stick to Suikoden 4's dungeon music. I know there were only about 2 caves in the whole game, but they did have an exotic/oceanic vibe to them.

Now that you mention it, which song is the dungeon music?

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Inspired by sticky saying to stick with just using Suikoden IV's dungeon music, I decided to take a look at several songs/underused songs that might work as other dungeon music, as well.

Here's my list:

Possible Dungeon Music (From S4 Only)
Suikoden IV OST #10 - Gloomy Sailing
Suikoden IV OST #16 - Echoes of the Sea's Roar
Suikoden IV OST #21 - A Certain Meeting -Hermitage Island BGM-
Suikoden IV OST #24 - Time Stands Still -Obel Ruins BGM-
Suikoden IV OST #29 - Hidden Offense And Defense -Middleport Dungeon BGM-
Suikoden IV OST #33 - Depth In Simplicity -Coin Minigame BGM- (This is Igor's mini-game. Since it sounds more like dungeon music, Igor can always use Let's Go & Try.)
Suikoden IV OST #49 - Confession Song -Keene's Confessional BGM- (Since Investigations should return, should Confessionals be replaced by them?)
Suikoden IV OST #56 - Scenery Of A Nameless Island
Suikoden IV OST #59 - Palisade Melody -Last Dungeon BGM-
Suikoden IV OST #60 - Ogrel -Music Box BGM- (Could be used for the inside the Rune of Punishment parts.)
Suikoden IV OST #63 - Finale Remembering The Deep Blue (Not a really serious suggestion since it's Credits music, but I could see it used for the Fog Ship)

Possible Other Use
Suikoden IV OST #54 - The Travelling Dice Thrower -Dice Minigame BGM- (Gunter's plays Chinchirorin, so he should really use either S1's and/or S2's Theme of Temptation.)

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Need sleep now; I'll be back here sometime around 12PM my time. Sign off... Now.

[sticky-runes]

Echo of the Sea's roar is the BGM to the cave on Deserted Island (it's got a nice dark sandy theme to it)
Time Stands Still is from the Obel ruins, obviously.
I think scenery of a Nameless Land is the music from the small cave on Hermitage Island
There's also the BGM for Warlock's cave on Middleport.

[gildedtalon]

Nalkul is Fire innate

[HolyPaladin]

Nalkul is Fire innate

I'll answer this one before going to bed.

Some Innates were changed to prove better diversity/balance. Since Snowe went from Water to Fire, I changed Chiepoo to Fire so that Chiepoo can take over for Snowe in the exile party (Snowe/Chiepoo = Fire, Jewel = Water, Paula = Wind, Tal = Earth, Keneth = Lightning). Now that Chiepoo is a Fire Innate, having Nalkul stay as Fire would be redundant; as there are so few Lightning Innates already, Nalkul becomes a Lightning Innate.

[ENDmyinitials]

Hey guys sorry, my laptop has been down for 2 days, the charger port is having issues, but please continue the great work!

[sticky-runes]

If we do use any music from other suikoden games, it might be an idea to use S1's elf music for the elf part of Na Nal. We could probably even use the Celtic rendition to make it a bit different.

[BrucePrintscreen]

How about re-using the music in S1 that is used on the island of Leknaat? Cause it's a super great music that is only used very briefly and I always thought it was such a waste.