Wishlisst for new suikoden game

[BrucePrintscreen]

He was just using it as an example.

[Antimatzist]

Why? You can be in any nation and Valeria could be the leader of a Toran Republic army division, trying to fight you, but eventually she sees that the evil president Lepant is wrong.

Again president Lepant isn't evil.

The only possibility is,if Eilleen dies and Lepant marries some evil sorceress that resembles Eileen then he would be manipulated by her,and act evil. Just like Barbarosa.

Why isn't Lepant evil? I think the Suikoden series made a lot of points a very good point that evil is just a matter of perspective. In the first game, the City State of Jowston are also bad guys as they invade your country (but only because you wanted it). in the second game, the Toran Republic is hated by a lot of the City State people as they are their arch enemy and cnanot be trusted yet.

So I don't see why Lepant would have to turn into an evil wizard or something so he invades another country.

Also, Barbarossa wasn't bewitched by Windy, he was just in love or something. And Lepant already has the evil moustache.

[BrucePrintscreen]

yes, Antimatisz got my point entirely: Suikoden is about the relativity of evil. Some characters are on the good or bad side depending of the story. Think about Leon, for a start. In a hypothetical future game, Lepant could be on the wrong side, thinking he is rightly defending justice when in fact he is allied with the wrong ones, sending Valeria to fight against you.
One doesn't need to be evil to be on the antagonist side in a Suikoden game.

[Sasarai10]

yes, Antimatisz got my point entirely: Suikoden is about the relativity of evil. Some characters are on the good or bad side depending of the story. Think about Leon, for a start. In a hypothetical future game, Lepant could be on the wrong side, thinking he is rightly defending justice when in fact he is allied with the wrong ones, sending Valeria to fight against you.
One doesn't need to be evil to be on the antagonist side in a Suikoden game.

Leon seemed to be dangerous even if he was on your side.

For some reason all characters that needed level 4 HQ to be recruited in the first game,were suspicious looking:


a guy living in the ruins of some destroyed town
a black-dressed guy desperately chasing a woman for unknown reason by the time
a guy that resembles Yuber one of the enemy generals,found at the top of a vampire's castle
an old man living in an isolated valley (the least suspicious among them though)
an old man hidden in some weird spot inside a cave


not the most sociable characters,aren't they?

[BrucePrintscreen]

I do not see the link with the hypothesis we are talking about. You're talking about recruiting characters that at no point were on the antagonist side. We are talking about how some characters can be on the protagonist or antagonist side depending of the situation. You really are missing the point entirely here.

[Wolkendrache]

I think the Suikoden series made a lot of points a very good point that evil is just a matter of perspective.

I disagree in a way. I don’t think good and evil is a matter of perspective in Suikoden. There is clearly good and evil, but the special thing about Suikoden characters is that they all have a cause or reasons to choose their side (revenge, sworn oaths, etc.). In the Suikoden world, destiny creates causes which make people choose or switch.

For example, while you’re saying “I don't see why Lepant would have to turn into an evil wizard or something so he invades another country”, I’d rather say “I don’t see why Lepant would invade another country without a cause”. I mean you can’t make him invade a country by just changing the perspective, you have to create a cause like Eileen gets assassinated or so.

I think we can all agree that Suikoden has no cliché “born evil, died evil”-guys.

[BrucePrintscreen]

We definitely can agree on that! The best example of what I'm talking about is definitely Kiba. He's not a bad guy. He's a good guy. He just genuinely thought that Highland was the good side.

Good and evil does not equate with protagonist and antagonist, you will notice I used these words rather than good and evil. Kiba was an antagonist to you until he joined the protagonist's side, but he was at not point evil.

Conversely, someone like Kirke may actually be evil but happens to be on the protagonist's side anyway.

[Antimatzist]

@Wolkendrache: I never said Lepant wouldn't have a reason to fight and what you said was exactly my point

[Sasarai10]

I do not see the link with the hypothesis we are talking about. You're talking about recruiting characters that at no point were on the antagonist side. We are talking about how some characters can be on the protagonist or antagonist side depending of the situation. You really are missing the point entirely here.

Well you know....sometimes there are characters who just look evil,because of their looks....so it's hard to believe that they'll be on your side.

For example,when you came across Pesmerga for the first time,wouldn't you pass him as evil?

[Wolkendrache]

@Wolkendrache: I never said Lepant wouldn't have a reason to fight and what you said was exactly my point

In case you know the movie "Tucker and Dale vs. Evil", that's what I understand when you say "good and evil is a matter of perspective" (trailer link below). To describe Suikoden, I'd rather say "good and evil is a matter of cause". But if this is what you were trying to say, then I absolutely agree.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NdNpFoWrBDQ

[sticky-runes]

I wouldn't say Kirke is evil. He may be ruthless and uncaring towards the people he's beheading, but he lives in a world where criminals get executed and a man is required to be ruthless and uncaring for that job. He might be callous, but not evil. Saying a headsman is evil is a bit like saying a doctor is disgusting because he looks at naked people with horrific diseases and injuries.

[wataru14]

The most evil being in the Suikoverse is that guy in Kaku who hangs around the docks saying "That Tai Ho's got guts" and then blocking you from getting into our out of the wharf area. The number of times I had to go back on my boat to get his evil ass to move. (shakes fist)

But back on topic:

I would love a customizable castle. Maybe have one of the starts be an architect who can renovate and add new facilities based on the blueprints items you bring him (like Window and Sound Sets).

I would also love a more complex relationship system. I liked that you had to score hidden "friendship points" with certain people in S5 to get them to join you sooner. I would like to see that expanded. I would also like to see the hero's personality and reputation count for more. Have every dialogue choice count for something. I would like to see each choice affect how people perceive you and your army as a whole. For example, a bandit chief who won't join you until late in the game if you act too many "goody-goody" or have a stern wizard school headmaster who is harder to recruit if you are too sarcastic. I would like also to have some of choices affect townspeople and how they react to you. For example, people would be more friendly with a jovial/smarmy hero like Viktor and more respectful (even intimidated by) to an aggressive/refined hero like. Another suggestion would be to have recruits gain or lose friendship points based on your dialogue choices (like in Dragon Age), and also have people who react similarly to certain situations gain friendship points with each other (for things like Unite Attacks and protecting each other).

[highwind44029]

I liked the goodwill system in Tactics, but of course it wasn't much expandable other than talking with each other in the battlefield. It would be nice to have a more comprehensive system like that, not just between the Tenkai and the other stars (possibly non-stars too) but also among each other.

[Antimatzist]

Yeah, I would love to see some side quests of sorts to unlock some Unites/make some people stronger by talking with them. Also, maybe a city influence system like in Xenoblade. Just because you free a city doesn't mean they trust you, you have to do some work for them as well.

[sticky-runes]

The day-night system that somebody else mentioned could be interesting, as it's nice to see how some towns look during the nighttime. Only thing I don't like about day-night cycles in video games is when certain places, i.e. shops, are shut during the night and you have to wait until morning just to buy some supplies.

But this could probably work for the days of the week we get in Suikoden Tactics, where you have a day for each element. The elements could have some effect on gameplay, like maybe they determine what sort of monsters you encounter while traveling (on fire day you get fire drakes, on earth day you get creeper plants, on water day you get sirens, etc.) This could cause you to change strategies from time to time.

And seeing guild quests in a numbered title would be good as well. No more detectives, give us quests where we learn about how to gain allies and discover their back stories.