What units attacks would you add/change/drop?

[Wolkendrache]

In the first games there are a lot of characters left without unite attack, so what would you change? Especially in S1 there are many characters of this sort, and most of them don't even have anything to make up for it. So here is what I would change...

S1
Adventurer: Lorelai, Mina, Quincy
Archmages: Luc, Hellion, Crowley
Bandit +1: Varkas, Sydonia, Kessler
Beat’Em’Up (modified): Ronnie, Mose (instead of Pahn who has enough unites)
Bodyguard: Tir, Cleo, Pahn or Gremio (leave out Talisman Attack)
Chef: Antonio, Lester
Cross: Viktor, Flik
Fraud: Krin, Kimberley (leave out Bumpy Attack)
Generals: Humphrey, Kreutz (leave out Bumpy Attack)
Great General: Kasim, Kwanda, Milich, Sonya
Inventors: Kamandol, Sergej (leave out Fatal Attack)
Knight: Alen, Grenseal (leave out Flik)
Martial Arts (add Ronnie): Eikei, Morgan, Pahn, Ronnie (any 3)
Pretty Girl (add Lotte): Kasumi, Tengaar, Camille, Lotte (any 3)
Senan: Kasim, Warren, Griffith
Toiler: Blackman, Kirke, Sarah
Only Clive and Pesmerga are left without unite attack.

S2
Beauty (add Valeria): Rina, Karen, Lorelai, Kasumi or Valeria (any 3)
Cocky Wizards: Mazus, Zamza
Gamblers: Tai Ho, Shilo
Generals: Humphrey, Georg, Hauser
Ninja (modified): Mondo, Sasuke
Ninja +1: Kasumi, Mondo, Sasuke
Pretty Boy (add Sheena): Futch, Sasuke, Luc, Sheena (any 3)
True Beauty (add Valeria): Rina, Karen, Lorelai, Kasumi or Valeria
Vampire Hunters: Viktor, Sierra, Kahn
Leave out Fancy Lad Attack, Flik has enough unites.
Only Killey, Clive and Pesmerga are left without unite attack.

S5
Pride of Magic (add Eresh as option): Zerase, Levi or Eresh
Haud: Cornelio, Josephine
Spear: Nakula, Nifsara, Zegai
No one left without unite attack.

Any ideas for improvement? Any ideas for S3 and S4?

[Sasarai10]

I'd make fate attack in S5 have some effect basically. Like do 1x damage in all enemies.

[sticky-runes]

It is frustrating that Tir, Gremio and Cleo don't have a unite attack between them since we spend so much time with those characters.

For Suikoden 4...

I would drop the archer attacks involving Ted and Lo Hak because Ted already has the exact same unites with Aldo, which makes more sense any way. Either that or just change the victory animation so that Lo Hak doesn't give the same response as Aldo when Ted gives the cold shoulder. Lo Hak should just shrug it off or something.

Speaking of Lo Hak, I would like it if he had a unite with Helga, who he supposedly fancies. And Lo Fong could have a unite with Konrad and Izak.

Helga, Millay and Gretchen could have a unite attack since they all act as bodyguards to the hero.

I would give Lazlo a unite attack with the two knights who join him in exile, just to add a nice personal touch to each game.

[highwind44029]

I'd change a lot of animations in S5. A lot of them just had the characters attacking after one another. Even S4 had better unite attack animations iirc.

Ninja (modified): Mondo, Sasuke

Kasumi + Sasuke would make more sense animation-wise for this imo. Basically like GS1's Ninja Attack but only one person throwing the shuriken.

Overall though, the existing unites are pretty solid. Making unites for literally every pair or trio just because they had ONE common trait with each other would be doing a bit too much.

[sticky-runes]

I'd change a lot of animations in S5. A lot of them just had the characters attacking after one another. Even S4 had better unite attack animations iirc.

Yeah, Suikoden 4's unite animations were more unique, and they had victory poses. Most of S5's unites just showed characters using their standard attack and weapon drawing animations, only with different camera angles.

[Wolkendrache]

Ninja (modified): Mondo, Sasuke

Kasumi + Sasuke would make more sense animation-wise for this imo. Basically like GS1's Ninja Attack but only one person throwing the shuriken.

Overall though, the existing unites are pretty solid. Making unites for literally every pair or trio just because they had ONE common trait with each other would be doing a bit too much.

I was thinking if you recruit Valeria you can still have a ninja unite, and you have a ninja+1 unite if you recruit Kasumi.

Yeah, I actually agree that not everybody has to have a unite, especially in S2 and the later games. In S1 however, where you only have 1 rune slot and no skills system to improve or modify a character, I think they should at least have a unite attack. Moreover, one common trait is better than none (Humphrey+Krin), and I don’t like some characters having several unite attacks while others have none, so I’m basically trying to balance a bit.

[highwind44029]

Idk, I kinda thought random unite attacks like Bumpy were interesting. There's a certain surprise factor when you find it out by yourself that it turns out two people that share NOTHING in common (Viki and an octopus, Joe and Shabon, Landis and Ayame, to name a few) have a pretty good unite attack.

I think MAG-based unite attacks would've been pretty nice during the early installments as well. I think Estella and Rody were the first to have one in III, and I think it had a pretty good, balanced concept to have a character lose magic points, and have it synchronize well with a skill (Rody could reach S in Magic Rationing) so you could potentially be able to get magic points back to be able to use it again. Despite that it did have pretty horrible scaling with levels though, since it was only based on the MAG value of the participants and no base damage and not in any way affected by damage modifiers from skills.

Speaking of scaling, the unite attacks in S4 were pretty bad. There was little to no incentive to use about 80% of them since they had like 1.0xDMG base, and only gets increased to 1.25xDMG at the most, the only exception for 2-person single-target unites were Snowe/Lazlo. This combined with party capacity being reduced to 4 kinda made it better to gamble with a Killer Rune for 3-rune slot characters to have higher potential DPS *and* be able to deal with multiple enemies instead of using 1/2 or 3/4 of the party on just one target (unless you used the multi-target unites, which still scaled horribly outside of Dario/Gau). I think magic unites also had horrible damage output in this game. It really only worked in Tactics.

I haven't played enough of S5 to be able to complain about it, but yeah for the most part I think my input regarding this topic is less about adding/removing unites but instead changing the mechanics at play with the existing ones.

Although it would've been cool to give Zamza/Killey a fire magic-based unite attack in S2...

[Wolkendrache]

Idk, I kinda thought random unite attacks like Bumpy were interesting. There's a certain surprise factor when you find it out by yourself that it turns out two people that share NOTHING in common (Viki and an octopus, Joe and Shabon, Landis and Ayame, to name a few) have a pretty good unite attack.

The surprise effect is good, but I’d still prefer two Humphrey+Kreutz and Krin+Kimberley attacks, not just because these make more sense, they’d also make 2 more characters more attractive to use.

Although it would've been cool to give Zamza/Killey a fire magic-based unite attack in S2...

Like the “Trolls on fire” attack

I haven't played enough of S5 to be able to complain about it, but yeah for the most part I think my input regarding this topic is less about adding/removing unites but instead changing the mechanics at play with the existing ones.

The problem of mechanics is a different issue, worth to open a new thread. I mean, if the mechanics are bad, then of course everything else is obsolete. In S5 I rarely use unites because the animations are too long and boring, and due to skills and runes and other stuff, your party can kill the enemies much “faster” (maybe a turn more, but less time) without unite attacks. I’d suggest leaving out these kinds of issues, or respectively make your suggestions based on the premise of a good working unite attack system.

In other words…
- When you played any of the games, did you think “this character should have a unite with that character”? Who and why?
- Are there unites that make you think “why is this character a part of it” or “why is that character not a part of it”? Who and why?

[sticky-runes]

Axel and Jewel could have had a Na Nal unite attack, just to acknowledge that they are from the same village. I'm the only cunt around here that seems to give a toss about Suikoden 4 characters.