Which game had the best "elemental weapon" enhancements?

[sticky-runes]

By that, i mean the ability to endow characters' weapons with magical enchantments.

Suikoden 1: you got the blacksmiths to attach rune pieces to characters' weapons
Suikoden 2: still done by blacksmiths, but instead of rune pieces, you could just use regular elemental orbs. And there were also runes that could induce sleep and stun status on enemies.
Suikoden 3: That's when they brought in elemental sword runs that you got a rune master to attach to the characters' hand. It allowed different techniques.
Suikoden 4: Went back to Suikoden 1's rune pieces attached by blacksmiths, but you could attach multiple elements (I never really got how that worked though - did the next element override the previous one you had attached, or something?)
Suikoden 5: Brought back Suikoden 3's elemental swords runes, attached to characters' bodies by rune masters.

Personally, I always preferred Suikoden 2's method. You could even detach runes so that you could re-use the orbs for something else, it was just good for orbs to have multiple uses, instead of having different types of rune-related items cluttering up your inventory. And I never really liked the elemental sword runes, because you'd waste a turn activating the rune's power, when in the other games, the elemental properties, like enhanced attacks or increased protection, were always active.

[wataru14]

2 all the way.

I didn't like 1's version. Once you made a choice, that was it. The piece was permanently attached and you couldn't remove it. The only way to change it was to replace it with another. Very wasteful. And elemental rune pieces were rare. Only Water and Earth could be farmed. There were only 2 Wind, 3 Thunder, and 1 Fire in the whole game.

3 I liked in theory, but I would have preferred that you get a free attack chain after activating the Rune.

I had no idea what was going on in 4's system.

I haven't played 5 in a while, so I forget if its system was different than 3's. I don't believe it was.

[BrucePrintscreen]

S2 wins here. I didn't play 3 and 5 but from what you are writing, they don't beat the system in S2

[Sasarai10]

I'd go with the 1st,because you could attach as many as you want. (Water rune piece trick)

S3 & S5 magic sword runes were kinda useless. You'll just waste a rune slot

[Antimatzist]

Magic Sword Runes were useful if battles were longer. Having an attack boost and elemental attack could be useful, but you just waste a turn and most battles aren't long enough to get the full effect. If you would do a free attack after activating the rune, it would be better. In tactics,it's different, because the whole battle system works differently. You cannot win without Sword Runes here.

I go with II because you can do so much, not only elemental weaknesses, but also status effects, and even stealing Potch.

[Sasarai10]

Magic Sword Runes were useful if battles were longer. Having an attack boost and elemental attack could be useful, but you just waste a turn and most battles aren't long enough to get the full effect. If you would do a free attack after activating the rune, it would be better. In tactics,it's different, because the whole battle system works differently. You cannot win without Sword Runes here.

I go with II because you can do so much, not only elemental weaknesses, but also status effects, and even stealing Potch.

Yeah in Tactics only they were usefull,but you can have only a 1.2X boost,whilst there are runes like Fury,who can deal damage 2X...actually,the only useful thing is the element. For example if your enemy is weak against Fire,then a fire sword rune could help.


But in S3 i think there is a skill called Magic Sword or sth like that,i don't remember,i have to play this game for 2 years

[Antimatzist]

Yeah there is a Magic Sword skill and in V as well, I think. They just didn't put enough thought into the rune and if we ever see a Suikoden VI, I hope they include these runes again and now they're useful. They could go with something like this:

Level 1 - Adds Elemental Attack, ATK+20%
Level 2 - Adds Elemental Attack and elemental defense
Level 3 - Adds Elemental Attack + Magic Sword status (adds magic damage to the attack) + chance of status effect

Make this rune available from early to midgame and leave runes like Fury, Doublebeat etc for endgame.

EDIT: Ok, now I see that at leats Suikoden V increases the bonus you get. More info: http://suikosource.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=7887

ATK*3 + Elemental Weakness might be pretty good.

[sticky-runes]

The elemental sword runes in Tactics worked well for those kinds of battles, because they were more about terrain effects. Which was kind of a daft idea to begin with, because it got a bit pokemonish, focusing a bit too much on using elemental powers to your advantage instead of just having units going at each other with their weapons, but the mechanics did work well. And I also appreciated how Tactics restricted the classic elemental runes to only being used by sorcerer-type characters, and only warrior types could use technique runes and elemental sword runes.

With the normal games, i prefer if we can just have the element active on our weapons at all times.

[Punkaiser]

I'd vote for S2 rune system as well, it feels good for not having to sacrifice a body slot for an element.

I'd go with the 1st,because you could attach as many as you want. (Water rune piece trick)
There's a limit of 9 pieces per character, isn't there?

S3 & S5 magic sword runes were kinda useless. You'll just waste a rune slot
These runes are picky on users as there's only a very few characters can benefit much from those: rody S3, kyle S5.

Suikoden 4: Went back to Suikoden 1's rune pieces attached by blacksmiths, but you could attach multiple elements (I never really got how that worked though - did the next element override the previous one you had attached, or something?)
- Highest number determines the weapon element: 3 water, 2 fire, 5 thunder, 4 earth => thunder weapon
- When some(or all) elemental pieces are tied in number, the last one inserted determine the weapon element: 20 water, 20 fire, 20 wind...last piece attached was fire => fire weapon.

[sticky-runes]

Suikoden 4: Went back to Suikoden 1's rune pieces attached by blacksmiths, but you could attach multiple elements (I never really got how that worked though - did the next element override the previous one you had attached, or something?)
- Highest number determines the weapon element: 3 water, 2 fire, 5 thunder, 4 earth => thunder weapon
- When some(or all) elemental pieces are tied in number, the last one inserted determine the weapon element: 20 water, 20 fire, 20 wind...last piece attached was fire => fire weapon.

well that's a stupid system, basically the other elements become redundant.

[Pyriel]

Same system from the first one, except the last one took precedence there. Of course, in the first one, you couldn't get more than two or three of most types, so it was hardly an issue unless you were thinking you could turn your hero into a thunderous, fiery god who instantly healed from any wound.

[sticky-runes]

I seem to remember fire rune pieces were quite rare/harder to find in Suikoden 4, while other elemental pieces were more frequent than others.

[Sasarai10]

S3 & S5 magic sword runes were kinda useless. You'll just waste a rune slot
These runes are picky on users as there's only a very few characters can benefit much from those: rody S3, kyle S5.

Rody was a mage wasn't he?

Yeah i remember you were saying that Kyle could deal about 11X damage with his magic sword...correct? but i don't think you would like to do it,because if i remember well,you don't like to waste a turn so he can have his magic sword

[Antimatzist]

You're right, Rody is a magician - but he can S rank Magic Sword (and is the only character in III who can achieve S rank). This gives a 85% damage boost. Still, that's not much of a boost for him as he is a weak fighter..

Looking at this guide, Konami put this run and skill in for a joke. I mean, seriously, no one can use it effectively. http://suikosource.com/games/gs3/indept ... fmagic.php
MAYBE the B+ users, but +41% isn't really that much considering you can have other support runes that also increase your damage when using a skill rune. The only advantage might be that you can strike earlier than without using the rune, so you don't waste a turn.

[Punkaiser]

I seem to remember fire rune pieces were quite rare/harder to find in Suikoden 4, while other elemental pieces were more frequent than others.
Actually, if you spend a while to grind(with slash rune) Ancient Crabs for money and meat, you'll get a lot of fire pieces.

Rody was a mage wasn't he?
Yeah i remember you were saying that Kyle could deal about 11X damage with his magic sword...correct? but i don't think you would like to do it,because if i remember well,you don't like to waste a turn so he can have his magic sword
I'm obsessed with ending battles asap so of course I don't like it, but for other guys who love balanced party(tanker, attacker, mage, healer...) Kyle as water sword user seems really nice. Well, if the bosses in Suikoden were tougher I think I'd use this rune a lot more often as it's definitely better and safer in any long fights.