Just finished Suikoden I

[TMan]

Probably the third time playing all the way through. This is my third completion since restarting the series, as some of you may have noticed. My order is a bit strange (S5, S4, S1), but there's method to my madness.

In any case, I might be about to voice some unpopular opinions, so if you're a big fan of S1 hold on to your butts.


Act 1, and general initial game observations
-Weirdly found myself very not liking the Gregminster music.
-The art didn't bother me as much as it did last time.
-Got the rune pretty dang quick.
-The money trick with Marco was a massive waste of time for me.
- Getting the fortune rune was a massive waste of time because I attached it to Tir not realizing that once he got the Soul Eater it'd be gone forever.


Act II
-The dungeons are crazy easy, and leveling up to a point that allows "Let go" as an option happens way too quick.
-Why am I not seeing anything about the enemies? There are five generals and we learn virtually nothing about them.
-Grenseal and partner join up with hero but we learn nothing about them either.
-Some good characters here, though the "No, I'm getting out of war, I'm tired of killing" got a little tiresome. (Liukan, Mathiu)
-Why are the empire's forces not doing anything? Why are they just waiting for us to attack? Why are their forces so absurdly split apart when they know they have a massive insurgency in the middle of their territory?
-The dungeons are too easy. The bosses are too easy. Having only one rune slot is really annoying.
-Mega medicines are awesome.

Act 3
-See ya Gremio. Your death gets easier every time I experience it.
-Found the Teo death scene surprisingly touching. The Teo/Tir/Pohl relationship was really really interesting, and I wish they could have found a way to flesh it out a little more thoroughly.
-Winning everything.
-Big battles are mega easy.
-Holy crap the clam killed me wtf first death of the game.
-Barbarossa is a really really interesting character as well, and I wish we could have gotten some enemy POV scenes so that we could watch him struggle with what Windy was doing.
-Poor Windy. I wish that she had time to deliver a couple more lines before the end.
-Why is the palance falling down?! And how is it back up in S2?!
-Story is okay. The pacing seems a bit weird, almost as if the plot occurs in spurts.

Overall
A lot of the music started to really annoy me. I finished the game at just over 20 hours, which was surprisingly short (I think my first play was somewhere around 60, including PS idle times.) It bothered me that they kept calling alcohol tea. The plot is really nice I think, but again, and I think I feel fairly strongly about this, it badly needed scenes showing more of the enemies. Also the Soul Eater is ridiculously freaking awesome and overpowered. I would just go to a dungeon and use Hell on every fight then leave and Rest when I ran out. Repeat til I could "Let Go".

Really looking forward to meeting Tir and Gremio in Dunan. Am now 3 hours into S2

[Antimatzist]

-The art didn't bother me as much as it did last time.

It did bother me the first time I played it, but now, I kinda like it.

- Getting the fortune rune was a massive waste of time because I attached it to Tir not realizing that once he got the Soul Eater it'd be gone forever.

It's a waste of time either way, since you can buy them later on. I always get the Prosperity Rune, because that one is harder to get.

It bothered me that they kept calling alcohol tea.

How often do they do that? I only remember the robber's tea, which I think is correct, because in the Water Margin, it's tea as well.

I think the first Suikoden is totally ok, but that's about it. It's definitely not my favorite, because most characters lack background etc. But still, the characters feel more alive than IV's...

[Belle]

-Why is the palance falling down?! And how is it back up in S2?!

Dude, don't you know anything? It's the law of JRPGs that every final dungeon is automatically timed to collapse the moment you defeat the final boss, regardless of its state in the near future.

It bothered me that they kept calling alcohol tea.

How often do they do that? I only remember the robber's tea, which I think is correct, because in the Water Margin, it's tea as well.

IIRC, Viktor keeps raving about the tea at this inn or that tavern and such. Despite that, he gets a little drunk at the castle feast.

I'm just glad they fixed that in S2, despite all its translation issues.

[wataru14]

The money trick with Marco was a massive waste of time for me

It can help a little in the beginning (Wing Boots are expensive), but exploiting Gaspar with lucky party members is a much quicker and easier way to rake in the cash.

Why are the empire's forces not doing anything? Why are they just waiting for us to attack? Why are their forces so absurdly split apart when they know they have a massive insurgency in the middle of their territory?

I agree completely. This always bothered me.

It bothered me that they kept calling alcohol tea.

And the whole Kimberly/Flik interaction. "Or don't you have time to drink tea with a beautiful woman?" All night long. Out of sake bottles.

Although Sanchez does keep offering Tir wine.

Big battles are mega easy.

Not at first, but the later battles boil down to leading with Dragon Knights to shave off 25% of their health, then using your three ninja. I've beaten Yuber before without losing a single soldier.

Holy crap the clam killed me wtf first death of the game.

The Shell Venus is nasty. But it's really REALLY weak to Earth. I bring Eileen with a Mother Earth Rune. Between her Earthquake spells and Varkas and Sydonia's unite, it goes down in 3 rounds .... 4 tops.

[Piisuke]

Act 1, and general initial game observations
-Weirdly found myself very not liking the Gregminster music.
-The art didn't bother me as much as it did last time.
-Got the rune pretty dang quick.
-The money trick with Marco was a massive waste of time for me.
- Getting the fortune rune was a massive waste of time because I attached it to Tir not realizing that once he got the Soul Eater it'd be gone forever.

I find getting both Runes a waste of time, as I never use them.
As for the money trick, I usually wait until I've got Gaspar and then get my money.

Act II
-The dungeons are crazy easy, and leveling up to a point that allows "Let go" as an option happens way too quick.
-Why am I not seeing anything about the enemies? There are five generals and we learn virtually nothing about them.
-Grenseal and partner join up with hero but we learn nothing about them either.
-Some good characters here, though the "No, I'm getting out of war, I'm tired of killing" got a little tiresome. (Liukan, Mathiu)
-Why are the empire's forces not doing anything? Why are they just waiting for us to attack? Why are their forces so absurdly split apart when they know they have a massive insurgency in the middle of their territory?
-The dungeons are too easy. The bosses are too easy. Having only one rune slot is really annoying.
-Mega medicines are awesome.

One thing I didn't like is the lack of character development. Kasim, Sonya, etc. Sure, one can find out that Sonya and Teo were romantically involved if you look for it, but apart from that one line by her when you fight her, very little.

One thing which really bothered me is how Teo's cavalry was just sitting there, waiting. Waiting for us to get the fire spears to beat them. What in the hell?

Having one rune slot was never an issue, until Suikoden II

Act 3
-See ya Gremio. Your death gets easier every time I experience it.
-Found the Teo death scene surprisingly touching. The Teo/Tir/Pohl relationship was really really interesting, and I wish they could have found a way to flesh it out a little more thoroughly.
-Winning everything.
-Big battles are mega easy.
-Holy crap the clam killed me wtf first death of the game.
-Barbarossa is a really really interesting character as well, and I wish we could have gotten some enemy POV scenes so that we could watch him struggle with what Windy was doing.
-Poor Windy. I wish that she had time to deliver a couple more lines before the end.
-Why is the palance falling down?! And how is it back up in S2?!
-Story is okay. The pacing seems a bit weird, almost as if the plot occurs in spurts.

I found neither death scene particularly touching. Gremio, because it was so blatantly obvious and Teo, because there's little story telling between Teo and Tir. He does the typical "son surpasses his father" speech, but that genuinely did nothing to me as I've seen it before.

I would have loved to see more of Barbarossa as well. I have been saying for a while now that I want to see the 'Succession War' in a game where we get to learn more about the great generals, Barbarossa, Gremio and Tir and could help make Suikoden I feel a bit more special as well.

[sticky-runes]

Wait a minute - you got Alen and Grenseal BEFORE Gremio's death? How did that happen?

I'm one of the few people who doesn't mind games being easy. Sometimes I just like an easy night in front of the TV, and what could be better than a nice lazy Suikoden game?

Yeah, the tea thing was annoying. Especially growing up in the UK, I was always like "tea is a morning or afternoon beverage, why are they trying to seduce people with it?"

Strangely, I think a lot of S1's music has held up quite well. There's a timeless quality to some of the tracks (I still love Leknaat's theme and the music in Ted's village), maybe it's because the music in this game doesn't sound as video gamey as a lot of other RPGs from the era. The romantic theme got very sappy, I was kinda disappointed they brought it back in S5. And the sub-game music and Mina's dance still crack me up.

I always assumed the palace collapsed because of windy and Barbarossa's runes going apesh!t when their bodies went splat. We don't actually see the entire palace when we go back there in S2, nor did we see the extent of the damage (just the screen shaking while we were escaping and everybody watching it happen off-camera) so maybe the throne room and reception areas were still in tact, and it was just the tower that suffered or something.

I always thought the visuals were fine. At least the sprites have proportions, not like those big headed/small legged early Final Fantasy sprites, and we even got some unique animations like when Flik draws his sword against Sanchez and Viktor activating the flood gate - small and obvious touches, but they were nice. It's only Jean who gets hurt by the graphics, she looks like a ropy old hag.

[Piisuke]

I personally really like the music of Suikoden I. Theme of the Advancing Army is still one of the most badass songs in Suikoden history, let alone videogame music history.

There's plenty of other songs I really love as well.

[freshmetal]

-Why are the empire's forces not doing anything? Why are they just waiting for us to attack? Why are their forces so absurdly split apart when they know they have a massive insurgency in the middle of their territory?

This is really the only problem I've ever had with the first game. Teo's battle was the only time the Empire was on the offensive throughout the entire game. For the rest of the game, the Empire's forces literally sat and waited to be over-run by rebels. I guess with such horrible management, the Empire deserved to be overthrown.

If the first game were to ever be remade, I hope the story is expanded, i.e. the war isn't so one sided with more back and forth battles being fought like in Suikden 2. Luca really had you on the ropes through most of that game.

[Piisuke]

Even then, he comes to attack you and you lose the battle. Then you go and find your fire spears whilst he waits and does... what?

[sticky-runes]

-Why are the empire's forces not doing anything? Why are they just waiting for us to attack? Why are their forces so absurdly split apart when they know they have a massive insurgency in the middle of their territory?

This is really the only problem I've ever had with the first game. Teo's battle was the only time the Empire was on the offensive throughout the entire game. For the rest of the game, the Empire's forces literally sat and waited to be over-run by rebels. I guess with such horrible management, the Empire deserved to be overthrown.

Well they do mention that the Lorimar region was abandoned because the Empire were pulling their forces together to protect the capital. And that was in the wake of Teo's defeat. so it was by that point that the Imperials thought "sh!t, we've lost 3 of our great generals, these rebels are actually proving to be dangerous."

still, it was kind of new to have an RPG where you explore new parts of the map by overthrowing fortresses instead of clearing dungeons and finding a new special item. It's not like we ever saw Ganon seeking out Link before he could defeat the next boss and become more powerful.

[Belle]

-Why are the empire's forces not doing anything? Why are they just waiting for us to attack? Why are their forces so absurdly split apart when they know they have a massive insurgency in the middle of their territory?

This is really the only problem I've ever had with the first game. Teo's battle was the only time the Empire was on the offensive throughout the entire game. For the rest of the game, the Empire's forces literally sat and waited to be over-run by rebels. I guess with such horrible management, the Empire deserved to be overthrown.

Well they do mention that the Lorimar region was abandoned because the Empire were pulling their forces together to protect the capital. And that was in the wake of Teo's defeat. so it was by that point that the Imperials thought "sh!t, we've lost 3 of our great generals, these rebels are actually proving to be dangerous." .

It shouldn't be surprising that the Empire wasn't being managed well. Barbarossa fell in love with Windy, someone only interested in seeking a second True Rune for revenge, and then just pretty much let her do as she pleased.

Plus, wasn't there the whole "Jowston may or may not be a threat" thing? They mention it very early in the game, and is the reason Teo had to leave.

I thought Lorimar was abandoned because Neclord kept turning the soldiers into zombies or something. *recalls dug-up graves during reconnaissance*

[Piisuke]

When you attack Kasim, Mathiu seeks aid from Jowston and lets them invade the territory.

[sticky-runes]

I thought Lorimar was abandoned because Neclord kept turning the soldiers into zombies or something. *recalls dug-up graves during reconnaissance*

Well, Lorimar was described as "poorly protected" because the Empire was pulling together it's rural forces to defend the capital, so the liberation army went to check it out and ran into Neclord's mess. So there might have been a small guard left behind to look after the place, but got zombified by Neclord along with the corpses that he reanimated (Zorak says he turned his men into zombies and we've seen that Neclord turns living people and reanimates dead ones as well)

[TMan]

Not being managed well and being conveniently permanently missing are pretty different things. At least the five generals should have been able to say, "Hey guys, you know that Level 1 castle that just opened shop near the capital? Let's go burn it down."

[freshmetal]

Not being managed well and being conveniently permanently missing are pretty different things. At least the five generals should have been able to say, "Hey guys, you know that Level 1 castle that just opened shop near the capital? Let's go burn it down."

Yes, you would think that with a rebel base just sitting in the open in such close proximity to the Floating Fortress, the Liberation Army should have been wiped out easily and early in the story. Especially if you consider how devoted Sonya was to the Empire and Teo.

Going back to the poor handling of the war by the Empire, why didn't Milich wipe out the rebel army after repelling them with the poisonous flower pollen? He suffered no losses and had them on the run. He could have easily retaken the checkpoint at least. Instead, the rebels were spared and allowed to operate within his region.