My Problems With Each Suikoden

[Antimatzist]

I know. The point is, most of S1's flaws can be excused for it being the earliest in the series, rather than adding them to the list of problems with the whole series.

I know that we must be a bit forgiving, since it's (afaik) the first (at least one of the very first) J-RPGs for the PSX, but still, it's not an excuse. Final Fantasy VI was released one year before Suikoden, and just look at it, it's awesome in size, music, graphics and story, whereas Suikoden has beautiful music, is not beautiful, has a nice story which suffers from the small size of the game.

I guess if you've played Suikoden back then, you see the game with other eyes, but I played it after I played nearly every other Suikoden game, so I can't see it with nostalgia.

[TMan]

I played it back then and loved it and I still love it. But I am enjoying picking on it for its vomit screens.

[sticky-runes]

I played the PS1 version of FF6 and thought it was fugly. Suikoden 1 was my first turn-based combat RPG, and I always preferred the taller sprites. Heck, I even thought Breath of Fire 1 was better looking.

[Freak]

My complaints with each Suikoden:

I: I don't care for many of the character portraits. Many characters are defined entirely by about three lines of dialogue. To short.
II: Pretty terrible translation, to many lines just saying things like "???????????????????????" Other than that, the game is just all around good.
III: The game not being released in PAL regions
IV: Terrible sailing parts, hardly any dungeons, the world is almost completely empty. Generally, the lack of effort that went into the game (we are back to three lines only-characters like in I, hardly any characters are developed at all, lack of townspeople that say anything interesting..).
Tactics: Too bizarre plot, disturbing and tasteless designs like the eyeless NPCs , no character endings, characters die way too easily.
V: The really slow beginning that keeps me from replaying the game because going through hours of dialogue again feels like too much of a chore. Otherwise, I was really impressed with the game and the effort that obviously went into it.

[LadyCyclone]

Suikoden 1 is not a person. We do not have to worry about the feelings. And the fact that we are all hanging out in a forum on a site dedicated to the series that S1 started is a testament to our enduring love for the game and the series it spawned.

It's just talking. The game will not be sad, I promise.

Well I am a person and I am mortified by the disrespect towards the magnificent Suikoden 1! Suikoden 1 was the first in the series, the daddy of Suikoden! I personally find the graphics very endearing; they weren't that much different to 2 and barely being able to see anything made it very interesting. But I'm not really a visual person and I understand others are ... However, this doesn't deviate from the fact that the first game, graphics and all, was fantastic in every way!

[Belle]

I'm looking at you Lymsleia and Lyon.

Oh come on! Am I the only one in the entire world who doesn't hate those 2?

I like them both. They both prove to be strong characters despite having to endure a lot of shitty situations. But the voice acting is a different story. I mean, Lymsleia's delivery of the word "brother" made me cringe every time, especially when she had to say it in a loud and emotional manner. Which isn't so bad until you remember half her dialogue in the beginning is BROTHERRRRRRrrrrRRRRRRRRRRRR.

Lyon's voice didn't really grate on me, but there were times it seemed the voice actor was desperately trying to work with the (possibly rushed?) translation. Also I didn't care for her victory lines in battle.

You wouldn't say to somebody "you were a complete dumbass as a baby because you couldn't walk properly"

Of course you wouldn't. That's a terrible reason.

Now if you told someone they were a dumbass as a baby because they lacked the capacity to control their bowel movements, that's different.

[TMan]

I get that it's a great game. The twist at the end with Barbarossa will go down in my mind as one of the best story moves I've ever seen. The fight between Pohl and Mcdohl is genuinely heart shattering.

But in a thread called "My problems with each Suikoden", I don't think we can rightfully get too defensive about the OP (me! yay!) harping on his problem with Suiko 1. I could honestly go on for a long time about all the problems I have with 5 much more easily than 1.

[sticky-runes]

I did get a bit too defensive there. Although personally, I didn't think suikoden 1's graphics were that bad, since a lot of other old school RPGs came with square-looking sprites with tiny legs and massive heads, Suikoden 1 had primitive visuals but at least we got sprites that were a bit more proportionate to the characters being portrayed. Made it a bit easier for me to get a feel for them.

Of course, Jeane was a mess in Suikoden 1. I always assumed she was a ropey old hag dressed inappropriately, but then in every other Suikoden game, it turns out she is supposed to be the most desirable woman in the suikoworld, so the old graphics certainly didn't work in her favour!

[sticky-runes]

Just thought of some more bits to add...

Suikoden 1: The "ping!" that chimes in just as Teo or Ted breathe their last breath when the soul eater takes their soul. Way to kill the mood, huh? Oh, this is so tragic, you just lost your father/best friend. But hey, we've got an extra spell for trashing monsters! Whoopy!

Suikoden 2: Takes too fricking long to recruit a blacksmith. You'd think a blacksmith would be one of the first members of staff we recruit when founding a castle to house a rebellion. But no, we have to keep making the trip to the next town right up until we've beaten Luca (or is it later than that?) By that time, the first couple of hammers you found earlier are redundant. And what is the requirement for recruiting Tessai? Why, we need Viktor with his star dragon sword, which we've had since before we even took the North Window castle. What a load of bollocks!

Suikoden Tactics: Character deaths. I can understand having character deaths in the major battles of the other games, because those don't occur too frequently, but in Tactics, pretty much every battle can kill your non-storyline characters. This puts a lot of players off using the non-story characters, quite understandably, because you spend time building up a certain character, and he or she just gets killed off and you can't use them again until new game +. all that effort goes to waste. And if you do want to make the most of all your characters while keeping them alive, then the alternative is to take a risk and if they die, then restart the battle. It's not that bad, because it gives you the opportunity to rethink your strategy, but it's also inconvenient. Either way, you have gameplay that goes to waste. As far as I'm concerned, they should have made all characters unkillable - having them beaten and drop out for the rest of that battle is enough. Or, just make it so that they can only be killed during storyline battles, and not during monster hunts or Obel Ruins.

[Belle]

Just thought of some more bits to add...

Suikoden 1: The "ping!" that chimes in just as Teo or Ted breathe their last breath when the soul eater takes their soul. Way to kill the mood, huh? Oh, this is so tragic, you just lost your father/best friend. But hey, we've got an extra spell for trashing monsters! Whoopy!

This is true. But personally, Milia's "o hai moonlite weedddd now letz get sum tacos LOL" non-reaction to Ted's death bothered me more than the poorly timed jingle.

[sticky-runes]

I wouldn't say Milia gave no reaction to Ted's death, I mean she and Flik both go to help Ted while he's dying, and when he's gone, she does walk up to Tir (I assume she's giving him a sympathetic look or something, you do have to use your imagination with these graphics, like others have said) But since Milia is the one representing the dragon knights, she's there so that they can wake up the dragons and help the liberation army, and she's a knight, so she's like "We've got to get back on with the mission. Worry about grief later". That's the sort of thing you would do in that situation. Kind of like in Lord of the Rings when the hobbits are all sobbing over the loss of Gandalf, and Aragorn tells them all to get up before the hills start swarming with orcs.

Plus, Milia only knew Ted for about 30 seconds during that scene, so if she did start giving some emotional speech or something, it would have been BS. Of course she's going to be more concerned about the dragons.

[Belle]

If by 'sympathetic look' you mean 'walking all over the spot where Ted died like an insensitive twat and then making a beeline for the moonlight weed' then sure.

I'm not expecting an emotional speech. But. something. SOME kind of acknowledgement. You say her attitude is to hold off on the grief? She doesn't even mention grief, or even tell Tir he needs to get it together and go on. It's like that whole drama didn't even happen, like she just walked in at the tail end of Ted's death, oblivious or semi-conscious and plagued with a case of the munchies.

[sticky-runes]

well, she didn't mention going for tacos either, did she? i think most people would assume Milia was more concerned about waking up the dragons than anything else.

[Belle]

Of course she didn't mention tacos. But she might as well have. And I'm sure she had the dragons on her mind in a big way. But you don't watch a puppet break free from his strings and die and not even acknowledge it in the least, especially when it impacts the person you're (temporarily) following, more than anyone else in the world.

That's just me, though.

[TMan]

I think Ted was the rudest for dying and ruining everyone's night. What a jerk!