How would you improve Runic Magic?

[ninjaluc79]

As the title says.

Assuming the MP system is still multi-pool (with 4 MP levels) with maximum of 9 charges for each spell level, what spells, abilities, and effects would you like magic, skill, and effect runes to have?

Also, what other features would you like magic to have?

Here's mine:

- In general, make magic more powerful than physical attacks since magic is limited by charges, unlike physical attacks which can be done infinitely. If that is not directly possible, MP mints could help make magicians more useful in normal battles, just not as many as 99 Ethers from the FF games since that would be overpowered.
- Max MP should be based on total MAG (including equipment), but opening rune slots should still be based on base MAG (without equipment).
- Add at least one attack spell to support runes like Water and Earth, which can also be used through scrolls. Say, a much more powerful Breath of Ice for Water or Earthquake for Earth.
- Add physical skills to the Magic Sword Runes, most likely in the first and/or second MP slots. Lv1 targets one foe, Lv2 targets all foes, Lv3 adds stats to self, element to weapon, and status ailments to each strike; Lv4 nullifies all attacks with the specific element but user takes more damage to the opposite element (null fire, 2x damage from water attacks for Rage Sword Lv4).
- Add buff skills with drawbacks to Skill Runes, most likely in the fourth MP slot, to make Rune Knights more powerful with skill runes despite below-average STR but high MAG (in conjunction with Magic Sword).
- Adjust effect runes that affect physical damage to keep it from trumping magic. If possible, Warrior should be more useful than in the actual games (where people usually prefer Double-Strike and Fury than Warrior).

So how would you do yours?

[Neclord X]

I think I comented this in the past.

Together with experience I would give the characters "ability points" (or whatever you want to call it).

Then the runes would have "skill trees". Mana would work the same way, 4 levels, the only difference is you should use the points to unlock which skill you want. Each level would have different types of magic, attacks, buffs/debuffs, healing, you should pick whatever you want. That way you could have a water mage that is fully offensive or a water mage that is defensive or a mix of both.

Example:

http://i.imgur.com/OjBoSiW.jpg

You should pick ONE for level, but you could move more or less freely between cure/buffs branches but if you pick attack you should basically continue with that line. (Since water is basically a defensive rune it has to "penalize" some way using it for attack).

Fire rune tree for example could only have fire attacks, buffs (to power), damage over time or status elements like fury, etc.

[ninjaluc79]

So I assume it's the same case for higher elemental runes? You could end up choosing your ultimate elemental spell!

Wow, I like this.

So each element could have 3 types of spells but you can only choose one type for each spell level? For your Water Rune example, let's try to use existing Suikoden spells if possible:

*Water
Offensive
Frozen Drops - low water damage to one foe
Breath of Ice - low water damage to front row, add chance to freeze
Frozen Rain - medium water damage to all foes, add chance to freeze
Frozen Lake - high water damage to all foes, add chance to freeze
Supportive
Shield of Ice - chance to cancel multi-target magic for one ally
Fog of Deception - evade up to all allies, hit rate down to all foes
Protection Mist - chance to cancel multi-target magic for all allies
Silent Lake - disable rune magic for 3 turns
Healing
Kindness Drops - heal low HP to one ally
Kindness Breath - heal low HP to all allies
Kindness Rain - heal medium HP to all allies
Kindness Lake - heal high HP to all allies

*Flowing
Offensive
Breath of Ice - low water damage to front row, low chance to freeze
Frozen Rain - medium water damage to all foes, med chance to freeze
Frozen Lake - high water damage to all foes, high chance to freeze
Frozen Ocean - ultimate water damage to all foes, very high chance to freeze
Supportive
Fog of Deception - evade, hit, and counter rate up to all allies
Protection Mist - chance to cancel multi-target magic for all allies
Silent Lake - all foes cannot use rune magic for 3 turns
Ocean Wall - nullify certain value of HP damage for all allies
Healing
Kindness Breath - heal low HP to all allies
Kindness Rain - heal medium HP to all allies
Kindness Lake - heal high HP to all allies
Mother Ocean - revives and fully heals one ally

So how about *Earth and *Mother Earth. I can only think of Offensive and Supportive skill trees. Maybe Status Effects?

[Hxc Flavor]

@NeclordX, That seems a bit too complicated, in my opinion. Maybe I'm just stupid though. I'd like to see the rune system act a little bit like the materia from FF7, they are actually quite similar.

For example, A Fire Rune would be like Fire materia, except it would have 3 different spells instead of Fire 1, 2, 3. As you use the rune more, you gain new abilities and are able to swap out newer abilities for older ones and vice versa. Once you "master" the Rune, instead of having only three abilities to choose froom, you have every part of the rune available to you.

Also, it would be cool to bring back the Rune piece idea from Suikoden I, but instead of attaching them to your weapon, you attach them to the corresponding rune spell in order to make it more powerful. (This might be a way to make low level spells viable later on, before you get the more powerful ones.)

As far as how many times you can use the spell, I have no problem with the 7/5/4/3 setup, as long as there are items to replenish your stock so you're not waiting until the end of the dungeon to use all of your spells (that was one of the things that annoyed me the most in the games.) I can also see a Magic Point system working, with items like Ether replenishing points too.

EDIT: After reading ninjaluc's response, it makes more sense to me. Good idea!

[Antimatzist]

I already created a topic which aims for a similar discussion:
http://suikosource.com/phpBB3/viewtopic ... 36&t=12448

I had the same idea as NeclordX about improving the rune system, only a bit different. E.g. You could choose Silent Lake as the Lvl 1 Water Spell, but then it'd just silence one enemy, Lvl 2 would silence a row of enemy and your whole party etc, building up to the Lvl 4 spell we all know. That would lead to a lot of customization, which I'd like.

[ninjaluc79]

Hmm... Three spell type branches are too complicated. Why not make it two spell type branches instead? It better represents the duality present in the True Runes from where all the regular and higher-tier magic runes are born.