Worst Suikoden Character

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Belle
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Re: Worst Suikoden Character

Postby Belle » Thu Aug 29, 2013 7:37 pm

It's probably just me, but I always felt like Gremio's stats were tied to his story. He actually starts out okay, a decent enough protector to Tir, and he has a great unite with Pahn. But as the story goes along, Gremio's stat growth comes to a stall. At the same time, Tir is going through a lot of things, becoming a man as well as leader of the Liberation Army. It just seems to me that even though Gremio invites himself on a lot of missions and insists he must be there to protect the Young Master, inwardly he knows the little boy he raised is growing up and needs him just a little bit less every day. I'm thinking he loses the will to fight as hard as he once did, and then accepts that his role as protector is done.

Of course, it's just an observation. I'm not saying they did that on purpose or anything.

But for some reason, he feels a lot stronger after level 60 (once you get him back).

Ranadiel
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Re: Worst Suikoden Character

Postby Ranadiel » Thu Aug 29, 2013 8:17 pm

There's a reason he feels a lot stronger after level 60 - because he's the only character whose Power gains post-level 60 are in the 2-3 range, whereas everyone else gains 0-1 from 60-99. So basically Gremio comes into his own only after you've reached an average level that trivializes the game.

I understand the point you're trying to illustrate though, and when you look at it from that standpoint it makes sense.

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sticky-runes
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Re: Worst Suikoden Character

Postby sticky-runes » Fri Aug 30, 2013 3:33 am

darkknightkv wrote:
As to the original topic, others will disagree with me, but I am going to have to go with Apple. She just in general has a weak personality and her only role in the suikoden series seems to be failing and being second in command of war strategy. In the first game she was completely forgettable, in the second she just flat out failed and then begged someone better to help, and in the third her personality was completely overshadowed.

She has no interesting backstory, no quests of her own, she does not provide anything in the castle, and she is not even hard to get to join you.

Lastly, in general I expect more from someone who has been in 3 of the 5 main games of the series. She is in the ranks of Futch, Viki, Jeane, and Luc (Being stars for more than two of the main games), but they all have better stories and are genrally more useful.

Oh, and Agnes, you are just Apple version 2.0.


Get out.

Nah, I see where you're coming from. I personally found Apple's weakness and vulnerability quite endearing. She does have moments where I just wanna give her a hug. Agnes felt like a cheap knock off, they could have at least given her a deeper voice or something.

I think Lelei definitely brought a nice twist to the role of secondary strategist. She's an actual fighter, so if she feels that her mistress is being threatened or insulted in any way, she won't get all snooty and flustered, she'll just pull out her sword tell people to back the f#ck off.

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Re: Worst Suikoden Character

Postby Shasarazawoowoo » Tue Nov 05, 2013 6:47 am

Worst character, hmmm... tough call. I like a lot of them (including most of the main cast of V, which I found very well-written), and can even find something nice to say about some of the more worthless ones - like Esmeralda, who's at least part of a decent magic unit. (And I can't hate Qlon - he seems friendly, and when Max and Sancho join, he's in the best Charge unit, bar none.)

(I can't remember if Taggart is in a particularly well-powered unit, himself... I hope so, because I'm pretty sure he doesn't fight or do anything else of note aside from tell you Warren needs rescuing. And then Warren contributes nothing.)

Of the Suiko I crew, then... I'll go with Ledon, Krin, and Giovanni. Sure, they start out being... SLIGHTLY useful in the Thieves' unit (when they don't fail) and helped me out a little in early battles, but they fall by the wayside. None have particularly endearing personalities, and Krin kinda sucks in battle. His saving grace is his permanent Escape talisman, but Stallion has one too AND lets you dash AND isn't as terrible in battle. Well, I guess Krin at least lets you into Lepant's manse, even if he tries to sell you out later.

Also, Sanchez, for very obvious reasons. "I'm old and set in my ways. Sorry." Aren't there characters throughout the series, as old as and older than him, whose minds change? Even in the same game? What a load.

EDIT: Wait, yes, of course. Liukan's RIGHT THERE. HE'S older than Sanchez, and was able to be convinced to come out of retirement and serve the Liberation Army, although I guess being kidnapped by Milich and being there when Gremio died MAY have helped. Either way, Sanchez really has no excuses now.

Suiko II... Jess. That business he pulled with the enemy camp and not even being concerned for Jowy's safety pissed me off something major, as did his recklessness. Not to mention the whole Annabelle ordeal. Which, hey, she was awesome. I'd be pissed at her murderer, too, but he just throws around accusations blindly and goes "LA LA LA NOT LISTENING" to anyone who may say a word against them.

Marlowe's just... pointless. What the hell does he even do aside from serve as a Star of Destiny? And he's got a thing for a 7-year-old girl. Wow.

I'd also add Zamza, because whoa, what a huge prick! But I recall him actually being a fairly good fighter, it's just I can never stand the thought of using the little snotrag.

V, well, I can't really call Salum the "worst", because he made for a nasty, compelling little thing. He was well-written, and kind of fascinating to watch, JESS. As a person, God, he's horrendous. But as a character, I love to hate him. Same for Euram, who at least has the chance to undergo character development later on and become a better person. I think the worst would be Urda. I mean, she's an alright fighter, it's just "barbarous human this, barbarous human that, Isato Isato Isato Alseid Alseid". Too bad she didn't live in the Village of the Elves instead of Alseid. I like to think she was visiting when the Burning Mirror struck, though.

(I haven't played III recently enough to remember its cast well, and IV's was just pretty much completely unmemorable. I mean, I liked Elenor, Lino, and Aldo, Jeane and Viki of course, but damned if I can remember anyone else.)

ETA: Apple has her uses, too, but I just realized that she essentially sucks throughout her appearances as well. She never really comes into her own. In I, she just hates you and clings to Mathiu. Okay, fine. Hardly the most one-dimensional, obnoxious person in that game.

II, she helps out some, but tends to really fark up anything she takes charge in. She at least admits she sucks, but puts herself down so much it feels like she's fishing for compliments anyway and seems content to rely on others without bothering to observe and improve. Sure, brains like Shu's aren't necessarily totally acquired, but...

I don't recall her role much in III and if she actually does do anything noteworthy. I recall it all being pretty much left up to Caesar, though, with Apple tagging along to keep him in line.

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Re: Worst Suikoden Character

Postby Antimatzist » Tue Nov 05, 2013 3:31 pm

I really like Apple's development throughout the series. Yeah, she started pretty low in I, but in II, I really love her. She perfectly suits the humble beginnings of the army, and it's not always her fault that things are turning bad. I mean, Viktor and Flik could have done something better than her, but appearently, they couldn't even think of Apple's simple plans. And then I like her role as Shu's human side.

Then, in III, I even like her more. I guess she realized that she sucks at being a tactician, but she'd make a damn good teacher. She witnessed two big wars, learned from one of the best strategist of the past years (plus Leon), and worked together with another great strategist. I bet no one can beat her in knowledge, but she lacks this certain something, so she just teaches Caesar to be one of the best tacticians ever. And that's it.

I just like the development from small fangirl to mature teacher. But then again, I hated her outfit in II, her sprite looked way too tanned and who in heaven wears yellow???

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Piisuke
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Re: Worst Suikoden Character

Postby Piisuke » Wed Nov 06, 2013 6:15 am

I absolutely hate Apple. Either stating the obvious, or asking questions on obvious answers. In II I think she's the worst.

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Jocky
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Re: Worst Suikoden Character

Postby Jocky » Wed Nov 06, 2013 4:19 pm

I really have to say, and I'm not sure if I'm just repeating what someone else has already said here but, what the HELL was with the Rose Brooch wearers & their lovers in ANY of the games?!?! Did anyone actually use such knoblets like Milich & Esmerelda (I), Vincent(I & II), Simone (II), Augustine (III), Schtolteheim Reinbach III & Charlemagne(IV) or Josephine (V). They were ALL useless in battle, and mostly useless in the larger wars as well, that's if they WERE even usable!! I understand that in the first game Milich was a joke roll, but why oh wwwwwwwwwhy did they have 2 waste 2 or 3 stars in EVERY game to include these plonkers?!?! Please someone explain this to me!!

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Re: Worst Suikoden Character

Postby Shasarazawoowoo » Wed Nov 06, 2013 5:23 pm

Well, actually, Milich, Esmeralda, and Vincent all formed a decent Magic unit in S1's War battles. Not the greatest - I think third- or fourth-best - but not too shabby. They did okay damage whenever I used them, since I felt like mixing it up some and not always going for the heavy-damage users right off (Crowley/Luc/Lotte, etc).

Milich was fine in random battles (and gets some pretty decent MP), though I noticed he, Kasim, and Kwanda were all actually pretty awful in Shasarazade. They barely hit, and took tons of damage back (might be because I gave K&K Killer Runes, but I gave Milich a Cyclone Rune...)

I think the Narcies are there mostly for humor/filler. Milich's actually an okay guy when he's not being brainwashed, arrogant but generally comes across friendly. Most of them do, save for Josephine.

I actually remember hearing Augustine was a pretty solid fighter in III, though. I think Josephine was a decent mage, and I remember hearing good things about Schtolty, whose name is basically a running gag in Suikoden anyway because of how ferocious and grandoise it is. Basically, the Narcies are fixtures known for their outlandish clothing, humor potential, and amusing French-style waltz theme. They're series staples like Jeane, Viki, Leknaat, and the theme-named groups-of-five you can recruit (blacksmiths, squirrels, dogs, mermaids, and beavers).

Vincent and Esmeralda annoy the eff out of me, but I do like Milich and Augustine, and Josephine was pretty hilarious (and did have a significant connection to a fairly major character). Also, I wonder if we can count Gordon, who runs Suikoden III's item shop? He was an okay guy, and useful at that.

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gildedtalon
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Re: Worst Suikoden Character

Postby gildedtalon » Wed Nov 06, 2013 5:43 pm

Augustine and Reinbach are really strong
My GameFAQs account now is SheenavsKilley
I already closed gildedtalon, my old account

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Re: Worst Suikoden Character

Postby wataru14 » Thu Nov 07, 2013 12:19 am

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Narcisists are underappreciated characters. While some are terrible (Vincent, Simone) and some are just unremarkable (Charlemagne), they have some standout people in their ranks.

Augustine is amazing. Natural S-rank in Parry and he can easily get an S in Swing as well (which turns his Red Rose Rune into one of the highest damage-dealing attacks in the game). I've had this guy take on Yuber and walk away without a scratch. I've had him defend Budehuc Castle by himself. Milich is a tier-2 mage (Growth Rate 6: equal to Cleo, Grenseal, Lotte, and Rubi), who has no major physical handicaps (who cares about Luck?) and can use a shield. He has no locked Rune. Give him a Rage Rune and he will nuke everything in his path with MP to spare, all the time having a really high physical defense and the same HP as solid fighters like Lepant and Futch. Josephine is a high-quality mage that you can get extremely early. She loses some luster when you get Viki and Zerase, but she is a solid caster with 2 free Rune slots and is useful in military battles with her 2 uses of Rage. Not up to par with the Augustine/Milich, but not weak by any stretch.

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Piisuke
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Re: Worst Suikoden Character

Postby Piisuke » Thu Nov 07, 2013 4:07 am

I second wataru14's comments. Milich was used at least a couple of times throughout my plays. He might not make the final party, but that's because I'm limited to selecting three people only, thanks to being forced with Flik and Viktor.
Josephine is a powerful mage as well, it's just that Viki and Zerase are better mages. Viki has Chain Magic and Zerase has her Star Rune.

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sticky-runes
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Re: Worst Suikoden Character

Postby sticky-runes » Thu Nov 07, 2013 6:45 am

I used Augustine quite a lot in S3, he's available quite early in the game at a fairly high level, plus he's not as frilly and colourful as most other narcissists. He actually wears black!

Reinbach's red rose rune was quite good in Tactics, it had sleepy effects on enemies, but Charlemagne didn't really bring anything special and their unite attack was difficult to pull off because you had to get them placed with enemies between them, whereas a lot of other unite attacks just needed two characters standing next to eachother. and the narcissists didn't offer much versatility in Tactics, they couldn't use mounts, and they didn't seem to have good will with many other characters. Not the best choices, but not the worst either.

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Re: Worst Suikoden Character

Postby Antimatzist » Thu Nov 07, 2013 7:02 am

Yeah, I don't like them in Tactics. I still don't really know what the skill Narcissm is doing and especially Charlemagne is pretty weak. I don't like Reinbach's Rune too much.

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sticky-runes
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Re: Worst Suikoden Character

Postby sticky-runes » Thu Nov 07, 2013 1:04 pm

I didn't use Milich much in S1 because I didn't like his sprites. He was just a mess. His hat looked like a bowl of fruit, his cape looked like a vomit stain, and he appears to be wearing bright yellow wellies and gloves for handling detergent. And this is supposed to be the most fashionable character in the game? I'm not bashing the game for having primitive graphics, it's just that Milich and some of the more elegant characters suffered the most. The rugged warrior types didn't look too bad in blocky sprite from.

I thought Reinbach was well done in S4. His clothing had silky and feathery textures and we got to see him flourishing and actually playing the part of a narcissist. He might not have been as badass as Milich, but it gives us an idea of how Milich might have looked in greater detail.

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Re: Worst Suikoden Character

Postby Shasarazawoowoo » Thu Nov 07, 2013 2:10 pm

I dunno, I kind of wonder if Milich's hideous ensemble was supposed to be an ironic joke - he's known for his fashion sense by... what, one or two other characters, and talks to you about fashion tips and such? Kind of like how Vincent is talking about how rich he is, how he's a noble aristocrat, yet he doesn't even have 200 bits to spare (claiming he gave all his money away to some starving kids) and is generally considered a compulsive liar. (Although I don't think it's confirmed either way, so who REALLY knows what his deal is?)

Not to mention, you went through Milich's wardrobes at his house, right? Fruit-patterned tie, watermelon-patterned sweater, sea otter t-shirt, that's just the start of it. Suffice to say, Milich's got a really f'ed up fashion sense that's most likely played for laughs.


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