Initial fan discussion (Canon or not canon?)

[Nanami_chan]

Tiki, I think these characters you said (even if theyre really cool) are already 'closed'. All we know how it ends! If I want to play or know about them I just re play suikoden 1, 2 or 3. Maybe they could be good like a reference in future suikoden or even like a star, but not the whole game about something we still know what happens and how ends...

I think we should be a little more open to new things. I would be a little upset if they bring Nanami, Ted, Jeanne, Flik, Viktor, Ferid, Luc, Meg and mukumukus to the same new game no matter how can it be, only for selling games. Even if theyre my fav characters. Im searching for a good story even if that has to be a new one. Of course thats not my ideal suikoden but cmon, we still know anything about it.

Even if its a spin off we have 2 choices.
1. I dont buy it because Id rather to die the series before they making money with very different stories. Its totally respectable.
2. Ill buy it because I still have hope in konami and there is a chance, even tiny, someday they will continue the series as all we want, and becaue I want to give it a chance because it can be a good game. Very respectable too.

None of the options are better than the other one but thats up to everyone to chose about it. I understand your point, really, but I still want to play this new game, so please, understand us too.

You dont need to be so sarcastic and even a little rude (sorry!), only because there are people who doesnt think like you. All of us are suikoden fans!, we are in the same team...
Lets everyone do wathever they want ^^

[Calvin]

You've made your point Tiki (more than once).

I'm just talking about simple economics. No sales means no games with the Suikoden brand. Most people are willing to suffer a spin off for this reason. I've never really prescribed to the whole purity argument (i.e. An American football player whose reputation is seemingly tarnished because he played a little longer than he should, or in this case, Suikoden games that aren't as good as their predecessors). I prefer to consider each game on it's own merit, and while I would certainly love to play new games within the original world, I didn't think Tierkreis was horrible. So while you believe that any game that is not set in this original world is a slight against the fans, I do not. It's not ideal, but when is anything ideal anymore?

Will this game result in future Suikoden games being released that contribute to the main series' canon? If the game tanks, probably not. If it does reasonably well, who knows? Six years later I doubt anybody expected a Suikoden game at all, and Konami has proven that it's approach to Suikoden's continuation has been decidely unusual.

[Scotts]

linking the Infinity to the main series would kill the series completely for me, honestly it would, because it would mean the end of everything that makes the series what it is - a story of one world that advances

introduce an infinite number of worlds and that one world no longer ceases to matter, the struggles of it's characters become meaningless because there will always be something else out there, conflicts irrelevant because the entire universe and every other universe have already been saved by a ragtag team of 4 people fighting against what is basically God

that's trash

If the Infinity were just a single rune, it could be abandoned in an instant to focus on the main world. Dunan doesn't become irrelevant because Falena has the Sun Rune.

The Infinity actually being a Rune could also make the entire Tierkreis style of world less absolute. It also gives further depth into the World of Wings and Scales, the World of Emptiness, the Shadow Guide of the Fog Ship. Worlds could exist within the Rune. This also gives the main world an intrinsic worth far greater than any of the other worlds.

[Rachael]

Tierkreis was actually the first Suikoden game I played, and I loved it so much that I decided I wanted to play the five games in the main series.

Another member touched on what I love about the series so much. It's the 108 characters. I love games with many characters. I love thinking about the characters and writing stories about them and pairing them together. I like to imagine how they get along with one another, how they're related to one another, how they would act around a character from a previous or succeeding Suikoden game. I wonder how they would react to those who shared the same star. I mean, what if the shy scholar Mubal met the sexy rune sage Jeanne? What if the brave, popular Flik met the cowardly, naive Snowe? What kinds of things would the Tenkai of the main series and Tierkreis talk about if they all sat down in a room together and talked? I bet Thomas would feel a bit overwhelmed. Or I just wonder about the pasts and futures of the characters. What did Georg Prime do between the 5th and 2nd games? Why did Zenoa later show up in the Empire of the North Star? How did the residents of Razril react to seeing Lazlo again?

I also love the optimistic spirit of the series--that destiny is changeable, that nothing is predetermined, and that humanity is stronger than we sometimes think. I that, if nothing else, connected Tierkreis with the main series.

Of course, I would love to see the story pick up where 3 left off. But I could also be happy if the series never ends. I feel the same way about Valkyrie Profile and Pokemon. I'm not terribly picky.

[Darkbeat]

linking the Infinity to the main series would kill the series completely for me, honestly it would, because it would mean the end of everything that makes the series what it is - a story of one world that advances

introduce an infinite number of worlds and that one world no longer ceases to matter, the struggles of it's characters become meaningless because there will always be something else out there, conflicts irrelevant because the entire universe and every other universe have already been saved by a ragtag team of 4 people fighting against what is basically God

that's trash

If the Infinity were just a single rune, it could be abandoned in an instant to focus on the main world. Dunan doesn't become irrelevant because Falena has the Sun Rune.

The Infinity actually being a Rune could also make the entire Tierkreis style of world less absolute. It also gives further depth into the World of Wings and Scales, the World of Emptiness, the Shadow Guide of the Fog Ship. Worlds could exist within the Rune. This also gives the main world an intrinsic worth far greater than any of the other worlds.

Was about to post this. Other worlds have always been a part of Suikoverse and if Konami decided to work the Infinity into the main series world, it can do so without destroying any continuity whatsoever.

Perhaps Konami are looking at ways to give fans the answers they desire while making the game accessible for new players. It's far too early to dismiss this game as "Just another Tierkreis" (a game which I and many others actually enjoyed)

[Antimatzist]

One problem of Suikoden V was imo that it was a great joy for long time players of the series, but newcomers don't know about all the backgrounds of the world. I am sure it is hard to make a game that pleases old fans and attracts new fans, too. So I hope that these spinoffs are just an appetizer for a future SuikodenVI.

[patapi]

Did those who started with Suikoden V really feel that way?

There are many players who were introduced to the series via Suikoden II (most likely more so than the first title, no thanks to the original's atrocious cover art) who seemingly did not have much problem picking up the so-called background as they go along. Suikoden V's comparatively contain much less references, to be quite honest.

[Antimatzist]

@patapi: Well, I started with Suikoden II so I don't know. When I found out that some dialogues etc from Suikoden II were about the first part I was really amazed and it felt great. But I guess new players who start with V and have no chance to play the first two games feel somehow at a loss, they maybe say "Well it's a good game", but with knowledge of the full series it would maybe be great.

But srsly I am still drunk and so maybe it's bs what I'm saying now lol.

[Rezard]

Even if new people could like a suikoden on the main story line, creating a game in an already existing world limits plot possibilits. You have A LOT of lore to respect, you dont have full freedom to do as you please.

On the other hand, how many people who played the original Suikoden 15 years ago still play rpgs, let alone video games? It is expected that fans of the old game are slowly retiring, so there is little advantage to Konami in releasing a game conected with the old plot. And 30 year old gamers probaly would prefer a mature game, while i dont remeber any jrpg without the teens rating.

But... if part of this fans are part of the suikoden team, maybe making a successful game would give them enough bargain power with Konami to do as they please and might be more confortable doing what they want, yet I wouldn't have high hopes. The odds are against us.

Anyway, since I am not catlle to be conducted, I am not buying a game only because it has suikoden on its name. If they want this to be sucesssful, they better start introducing some interesting systems that make the game more appealing. It was disappointing when Tierkreis didnt have any duels, war battles, complex plot, skill system, etc.

I'll only buy this game if it is good. I am not loyal to those who are not loyal to me.

[Zer0]

Just because it's a spinoff doesn't mean it can't feature the hallmarks that make Suikoden great.

War battles, duels, political intrigue, this sort of thing, i would assume occurs on more than one planet in the infinity. And really, that's all i want from Suikoden. A Suikoden that feels like Suikoden.

[Djungelurban]

Although a lot of us (including me) like the old plot, it also makes it hard for Konami to get new customers-- and they do need a lot more people supporting the series for them to feel comfortable taking business risks. For now, the best strategy for them is to make a game that appeals to a wider audience, especially if they're going to a portable platform.

No no no... This is not any kind of defense. You can do alot of things with the old universe that doesn't require pre-existing knowledge of the universe... Otherwise it would have been impossible introduce the series in the first place, no one knew anything about it at that point, yet somehow they apparently managed to make something out of it. But even if you don't wanna add on what's been established, there's this one little thing that we've been teased about since atleast Suikoden II (can't remember if it was mentioned in the first, maybe in one of the books) that is completely central to the plot but has nothing of the baggage of the older games to deal with and while some people would surely prefer to keep it a mystery you could most definitely go back to a story about the Sindar civilization... Maybe even the fall of the Sindars to make it even more exciting. Come on, that's a story that I wanna know atleast.

Besides, I don't see how going back to the old universe is "taking a chance". New people would be able to play a game in that universe as well as taking place in a new one seeing as they're new, new or old universe, regardless it's new to them. The only thing that going with a new universe could result in is that the long time fans would be generating a bad buzz about the game long before it's ever released. And can't see that as being in any way helpful.

[amari17]

Did those who started with Suikoden V really feel that way?

There are many players who were introduced to the series via Suikoden II (most likely more so than the first title, no thanks to the original's atrocious cover art) who seemingly did not have much problem picking up the so-called background as they go along. Suikoden V's comparatively contain much less references, to be quite honest.

Hi, i'm a longtime lurker, i simply had to register to answer your question. I started out with SV and the answer is no...Suikoden V did a great job of introducing the new cast to newcomers. With recurring characters such as Viki, Jeane and Georg, cameoing added a sense of mystery towards those characters which compelled me to track the previous games and play them silly! (even IV which was pretty good ) That made me more attached to the world they had forged.

This is very similar to Uncharted 2's Chloe Frazer, she came out of nowhere in U2 with no real introduction, but the writing suggested she's a part of the Nathan's past. This prompted me to accept each characters have a past as silly as it sounds (Think Transmedia)

hope this answers your questions....i may stick around here!

[gilgamesh31]

Its really too early to write this game off as Tierkreis II just yet. Its a twenty second anime trailer which only really tells us that it looks like they're keeping the same art style of the DS game. I will hold off my judgement until we get a bit more information at least.

A Suikoden game set in the old Suiko-world could turn out to be crapper then Tierkreis was, lets just hope its a good story with good gameplay isn't that the most important thing anyway?

[Alestes]

I also love the optimistic spirit of the series--that destiny is changeable, that nothing is predetermined, and that humanity is stronger than we sometimes think.

Hehe, I actually thought that was the weakest part of the game. There as so many things in the game that are predetermined, that you can't change. Like fights you're predetermined to lose, no matter how hard you try.

But it's kinda ironic, a linear predetermined game that is about how things are not predetermined

[JiggleBiscuits]

I registered to say Tiki is exactly right about everything.

Either let the series die in peace or continue the main storyline.

Don't continue to rape the corpse of the series like this.

Edited because I realised I left out part of what I wanted to say :/