Initial fan discussion (Canon or not canon?)

[son_michael]

Well this sucks....I really wanted to collect all the games but there's no way I'm spending money on a PSP. I guess Suikoden as we knew it is gone forever, the only hope is if Konami makes an effort to get the team back together....if they make any profit off of this (most likely) mediocre game...then Suikoden is probably finished. That is to say...we will never go back to the main story line.

[Darkbeat]

Well this sucks....I really wanted to collect all the games but there's no way I'm spending money on a PSP.

I wouldn't be too worried, the state of the PSP in the West is tenuous enough to make it highly likely it will be ported or released on PSN (or both). It seems to me that Konami will most likely take the avenue that Square Enix will take to bring Type 0 to the West (which they've said they are "looking at").

Even if they do localize it for the PSP, those things are quite cheap these days. Will be even more so when VITA comes out, so you never know...

[Scar]

I mean, if the new Suikoden staff can't find any reason to make a game two, three or even fifteen years after the events of Suikoden 3...then why not jst fast forward to like 100 or 200 years past S3?

I mean, they can basically start a new story with new characters if the really want. The world would be the same and they could bring back some of those immortals we all know and love.

And again, while I didn't mind TK...it really lacked anything Suikoden-ish. For Gawds sake Konami, give me True Runes! Give me the Star dragon Sword (also True Rune, but hey shhhh.) Give me the Grosser Fluss I have been waiting to see in an actual rpg and not a story game. Give me Viki and Jeane. Give me Pesmerga and Yuber. Give me SUIKODEN!

[JiggleBiscuits]

Jiggle Biscuits you are blatantly ignoring what people are saying to you

I'm not ignoring anything. People are posting things that are factually incorrect. I am correcting them.

Their ilk were saying the exact same things back when Tierkreis was unveiled

And they were right.

But facts don't change: Tierkreis did well enough to be seen as a "strong" performer for Konami in Japan. It shouldn't come as a surprise that they were encouraged to make another game in the same multiverse.

If they want to make a series out of this, fine. Let them.

But don't slap the Suikoden name on it when it's clearly not.

Make a new. profitable IP and give us proper, canon Suikoden games.

[lungfish]

If they want to make a series out of this, fine. Let them.

But don't slap the Suikoden name on it when it's clearly not.

Make a new. profitable IP and give us proper, canon Suikoden games.

I must say, I utterly agree with this.

[Flufflez]

i don't think anyone here wants the suikoden name on games that don't follow the main story. but konami can do whatever they want with the name unfortunately since they own it. unless there is some sort of constructive idea about how to remedy this problem, talking about it further is pointless. imo it needs to be clearly defined by the mods what this topic is for, and move all irrelevant conversation to new topics. it seems like a topic for complaining about the current direction of the series and organizing a response needs to be created, probably by tiki or jigglybiscuit. another topic could be created for arguing about what the definition of canon is and how it applies to the new game and other games in the series. i don't mean to criticize the mods here, but can we please clean things up a little bit? i come here often and post seldom, and it's ridiculous to see what i thought would be a topic on speculation and information about a new suikoden game turned into what it is now.

[Zer0]

I think it a bit funny that some of us fans think whether or not Tierkreis is canon is up to us or not. At the end of the day, that decision lies with Konami, even if they have lost their visionaries and tierkreis came across as a bad fanfic, it's still Canon.

Give this a read http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/M ... continuity

[tiki]

that decision lies with Konami, even if they have lost their visionaries and tierkreis came across as a bad fanfic, it's still Canon.

http://suikosource.com/phpBB3/viewtopic ... 54#p133654

nope

Konami is a publisher, not a writer or a creator of stories

Tierkreis is only canon to Tierkreis's world, something that has nothing to do with Suikoden 1-5's world

Suikoden 1-5 is canon to Suikoden 1-5's world, something Muramaya lovingly crafted and set up the blueprints for

anyone who tries to combine them is a talentless coattail riding hack

see: Tierkreis's writer

[LanceHeart]

Konami is a publisher, not a writer or a creator of stories

Konami is a developer, actually. They founded, funded, and supported the original Suikoden games and Tierkreis. Without Konami greenlighting the project pre-1996, we wouldn't even have a series to debate.

Their money, their hired staff, their decisions, their franchise.

[Zer0]

that decision lies with Konami, even if they have lost their visionaries and tierkreis came across as a bad fanfic, it's still Canon.

http://suikosource.com/phpBB3/viewtopic ... 54#p133654

nope

Konami is a publisher, not a writer or a creator of stories

Tierkreis is only canon to Tierkreis's world, something that has nothing to do with Suikoden 1-5's world

Suikoden 1-5 is canon to Suikoden 1-5's world, something Muramaya lovingly crafted and set up the blueprints for

anyone who tries to combine them is a talentless coattail riding hack

see: Tierkreis's writer

Suikoden belongs to Konami. Anything they choose to do with their brand is official. It's canon. It's really that cut and dry. I'm sure if Muraymaya really felt that his brainchild was being raped, he would have spoken up about it.

[tiki]

Their money, their hired staff, their decisions, their franchise.

original writer's world, original writer's blueprints, original writer's story

anything beyond what was originally laid out isn't canon

canon isn't a legal term, you can't invalidate or heavily modify an existing work's canon and force everyone to accept it simply because you own the legal rights to it

if I buy the rights to all the original Beatles songs and add in farting noises to all the songs every 5 seconds and replace all the lyrics with 'Hail Capitalism!', that doesn't mean that that's how the songs were intended to be or change what the songs are about, it means I'm a talentless hack who likes ruin other people's hard work instead of having an original bone in my body

see: Konami, Tierkreis's writer

[Zer0]

That example is hardly workable, Konami didn't buy Suikoden decades after the fact and fark with it. They nurtured it from the ground up and funded it. They shaped it to become what it is. The writer was a part of konami during it's inception. There would be NO Suikoden were it not for Konami.

[tiki]

no they didn't shape it, they funded it

money does not mean vision or creativity, money just means you're rich

if I gave Coldplay a million dollars to make me an anti-war song to play on the radio for profit it doesn't mean I am an artistic visionary, it just means I'm a jerk with funding

if I then hire someone else to change the song drastically to make it's meaning to be nuking Iran it doesn't change or invalidate the meaning behind the first song

it means they're two entirely different songs

see: Muramaya-canon Suikoden (1-5) and Konami's brandname milking-canon (Tierkreis, most likely this new game)

[JiggleBiscuits]

Konami is a publisher, not a writer or a creator of stories

Konami is a developer, actually. They founded, funded, and supported the original Suikoden games and Tierkreis. Without Konami greenlighting the project pre-1996, we wouldn't even have a series to debate.

Their money, their hired staff, their decisions, their franchise.

But not the proper universe. Nor a continuation of the story.

So not canon.

Suikoden belongs to Konami. Anything they choose to do with their brand is official. It's canon. It's really that cut and dry. I'm sure if Muraymaya really felt that his brainchild was being raped, he would have spoken up about it.

Since he doesn't work there now, I doubt Konami particularly care what he thinks - hence the two new games.

[Zer0]

Since he doesn't work there now, I doubt Konami particularly care what he thinks - hence the two new games.

Because he hates Tierkreis right?