JiggleBiscuits wrote:I registered to say Tiki is exactly right about everything.
Either let the series die in peace or continue the main storyline.
Don't continue to rape the corpse like this.
Like this? Do you know something about this game that we don't know? Right now we don't know what this game is and whether it's connected to the main continuity or not.
Not only are you premature with your baww'ing, your logic is questionable to boot. You would rather they discontinue making Suikoden games? Why? Do you not want to see Harmonia some day?
Keep the IP alive and we may well see the answers to our questions, kill it off and we never will. I know which I'd rather take.
(Also as an aside, I agree with the voices of reason above who quite rightly point out we should judge each game on it's own merits.)
כל העולם כולו גשר צר מאוד, והעיקר - לא לפחד כלל
All the world is a very narrow bridge, the most important thing is not to be afraid. - R' Nachman
I suppose JiggleBiscuits is referring to this new game looking like Teirkreis 2. Teirkreis, whilst a debatedly acceptable game, wasn't particularly a Genso Suikoden game in the vein of those prior.
I'm hoping this game, even if it's a completely-unrelated-to-the-main-series game, reintroduces runic magic, duel battles, war battles and six character parties at the least. That way, from a gameplay perspective, it'll actually be a Suikoden proper.
Feldoon wrote:I suppose JiggleBiscuits is referring to this new game looking like Teirkreis 2. Teirkreis, whilst a debatedly acceptable game, wasn't particularly a Genso Suikoden game in the vein of those prior.
I'm hoping this game, even if it's a completely-unrelated-to-the-main-series game, reintroduces runic magic, duel battles, war battles and six character parties at the least. That way, from a gameplay perspective, it'll actually be a Suikoden proper.
The art style of the anime trailer is similar but that's almost to be expected.
I agree mostly with your second point, insomuch as we'd all like to see those things. What makes Suikoden "Suikoden" can differ of course. While I love the things you listed, I'd trade them all for Vicki and Jeane in a heartbeat.
כל העולם כולו גשר צר מאוד, והעיקר - לא לפחד כלל
All the world is a very narrow bridge, the most important thing is not to be afraid. - R' Nachman
There are some people here in this post that I respect a lot! They are keeping a wise and positive attitude which is needed right now. It has only been a day, and you rained this new game with negatives and complains! Give it some time and wait. Some of us were blinded by the extreme love of the main series that they have sold every space and room for a new idea that might help in the survival of the Suikoden family.
I love Leknnat's advices, Tir's determination, Riou's forgiveness, Hugo's passion, Chris' composure, Gheddo's attiude, Lazio's struggle and Fray's dedication, but I don't hate or forget Sieg's goodness !!!
"We are beyond humanity. We are beyond Salvation" -Ada Wong, Resident Evil 6.
Ok, there is a lot to reply to here, but I'll try to be brief.
First, Tierkreis was not a Suikoden, in my opinion, and in the fact that it was likely kicked around for some time as a separate project, then at a point during production, the decision was made to slap the Suikoden name on it for the purpose of marketing through brand recognition. This is evident in the fact that they did the exact same thing with Castlvania Lords of Shadow. That game was in development by a Spanish company called MercurySteam, based on the old Spanish Templar order -hence Gabriel's Red outfit. Konami and Mr Kojima became involved and changed his name to Gabriel Belmont and slapped the Castlvania title on it as marketing. This does not prove that the same thing happened with Tierkreis, but were I a betting man, I'd bet it did.
Both Tierkries and Castlevania: LoS sold well, Konami claims 1 million sales for Lords of Shadow, this can be inturpreted several ways though. Were the successes the result of the games themselves or of Brand Recognition and marketing? I doubt that Konami is stupid enough to believe that the games were stand alone successes. I for one was even more disappointed in Lords of Shadow than Tierkreis. The correspondence that KC_McDOHL and I have had over the last year with Konami staff points to the fact that Konami is well aware of the Fans' reaction to Tierkreis. Also, Konami has openly promised that the next Castlevania game will have far more connection to the originals in the series.
With this in mind, I tend to agree more with Vextor than with Raww and Tiki on this. I think this is a sign that Konami is actively seeking inroads to the RPG market -and more to the point- trying to expand that market with a flagship RPG like Frontier Gate. This means that Konami realizes that while brand recognition can bolster sales, it is the game itself that counts, and that Suikoden still has name recognition. Surely not as much as MGS or Castlevania, but some none the less.
In the end, I think this new Suikoden and Frontier Gate are just spearheads of a larger push by Konami into RPGs. And hopefully this will bring a proper Suikoden VI. So, sighting my Lords of Shadow example above, there is a good chance that this new Suikoden will have much more to do with the original games. Lets hold off on the hate until we have had a chance to play it.
JiggleBiscuits wrote:I registered to say Tiki is exactly right about everything.
Either let the series die in peace or continue the main storyline.
Don't continue to rape the corpse like this.
Like this? Do you know something about this game that we don't know? Right now we don't know what this game is and whether it's connected to the main continuity or not.
Not only are you premature with your baww'ing, your logic is questionable to boot. You would rather they discontinue making Suikoden games? Why? Do you not want to see Harmonia some day?
Keep the IP alive and we may well see the answers to our questions, kill it off and we never will. I know which I'd rather take.
(Also as an aside, I agree with the voices of reason above who quite rightly point out we should judge each game on it's own merits.)
Tiki is right - if the Tierkreis timeline becomes popular, we'll never see Harmonia anyway.
JiggleBiscuits wrote:I registered to say Tiki is exactly right about everything.
Either let the series die in peace or continue the main storyline.
Don't continue to rape the corpse like this.
Like this? Do you know something about this game that we don't know? Right now we don't know what this game is and whether it's connected to the main continuity or not.
Not only are you premature with your baww'ing, your logic is questionable to boot. You would rather they discontinue making Suikoden games? Why? Do you not want to see Harmonia some day?
Keep the IP alive and we may well see the answers to our questions, kill it off and we never will. I know which I'd rather take.
(Also as an aside, I agree with the voices of reason above who quite rightly point out we should judge each game on it's own merits.)
Tiki is right - if the Tierkreis timeline becomes popular, we'll never see Harmonia anyway.
1. There is no "Tierkreis timeline". There was one game, Tierkreis.
2. If, as Tiki suggests, they did make future Suikoden games based on the Tierkreis timeline, then that in no way counts out the possibility of seeing Harmonia/answers. This has already been proven in this thread.
3. As has been stated, we should count each game on it's own merits. Suikoden IV did more to harm the Suikoden name (and sales data) than Suikoden Tierkreis ever could.
כל העולם כולו גשר צר מאוד, והעיקר - לא לפחד כלל
All the world is a very narrow bridge, the most important thing is not to be afraid. - R' Nachman
Darkbeat wrote:
1. There is no "Tierkreis timeline". There was one game, Tierkreis.
2. If, as Tiki suggests, they did make future Suikoden games based on the Tierkreis timeline, then that in no way counts out the possibility of seeing Harmonia/answers. This has already been proven in this thread.
3. As has been stated, we should count each game on it's own merits. Suikoden IV did more to harm the Suikoden name (and sales data) than Suikoden Tierkreis ever could.
1. Now there's a second, so there is a timeline.
2. This has not been proven at all. The reality is that Konami will do what makes them money. If the Tierkreis timeline is successful, they will abandon the old one. That is a fact.
Darkbeat wrote:
1. There is no "Tierkreis timeline". There was one game, Tierkreis.
2. If, as Tiki suggests, they did make future Suikoden games based on the Tierkreis timeline, then that in no way counts out the possibility of seeing Harmonia/answers. This has already been proven in this thread.
3. As has been stated, we should count each game on it's own merits. Suikoden IV did more to harm the Suikoden name (and sales data) than Suikoden Tierkreis ever could.
1. Now there's a second, so there is a timeline.
2. This has not been proven at all. The reality is that Konami will do what makes them money. If the Tierkreis timeline is successful, they will abandon the old one. That is a fact.
3. That is blatantly false.
1. Is there? So this game is in the Tierkreis timeline then? You know this for certain? Are you from the future?
2. Suikoden Tierkreis for the DS wasn't popular. Just in case they make another and it becomes popular, you want them to throw in the towel on the whole IP. This will save Suikoden. Buh?
3. No it isn't.
I would urge people to stop jumping to the conclusion that the minute and a half anime trailer you saw means that this must be in the same timeline/world as Suikoden Tierkreis. It only makes you look foolish.
כל העולם כולו גשר צר מאוד, והעיקר - לא לפחד כלל
All the world is a very narrow bridge, the most important thing is not to be afraid. - R' Nachman
Yep, so far none of the sources call this "Teirkreis 2" and the Japanese title only calls it "Genso Suikoden - tsumugareshi hyakunen no toki"
It's probably premature to think this game would be related to the world presented in Tierkreis at this point (although subsequent information may show otherwise).
Oh yes, about the comment I made a few pages about Konami needing to get new customers, I also don't agree with their strategy that they need to create spinoffs that are disconnected from the main series. Konami has been told this numerous times by fans, and they know this. However, they have made a conscious decision to follow this current business strategy because they likely think it's less risky than making a game that will satisfy an ever dwindling group of hard-core fans.
I completely understand the "purist" argument as well. In fact I probably was like that even when Suikoden IV came out because the timeline was so far away from the previous three games, and it felt like they "abandoned Murayama's world" by focusing on an undeveloped setting. However, with the current economic situation, and because I don't want to see the series completely dead for good, I personally would prefer to hedge on the hope that Konami's strategy will work and generate renewed interest into the series.
Personally, I never bought the "Suikoden has too much background, and thus new fans will find it intimidating to approach" as well, because I have often delved into established series to learn all the background stuff (in fact, I find rich backgrounds very interesting). However, I'm just one individual and I certainly can't represent the general consumer archetype out there (my tastes and likes are often quite different from the average public), so I don't feel it necessary for a company to base their business strategy on my particular needs. I do understand though, that if there's enough profit in the franchise there will be additional possibilities for odd creations, so my hope is placed on that.
1. It has been confirmed by several sources - check Siliconera. Konami have announced a new Suikoden game for the PSP. It doesn’t appear to be related to the main series as it doesn’t have a number on it. The game is titled Genso Suikoden: The Woven Web of a Century. The game is “a new story about a hundred worlds, a hundred years later”.
2. I want them to continue the real series. Don't make this counterfeit crap and slap the Suikoden name on it.
JiggleBiscuits wrote:3. It is. And you can't prove it's true either.
Actually, I'm fairly sure you could use sales data from Suikoden IV to V to imply that Suikoden IV sold well due to its brand name. However after it sucked, people were less likely to buy more of the product, causing Suikoden V's sales to be lower.
Of course I have no actual sales figures and I'm vaguely remembering them from whenever I last read them so I may be entirely wrong.
@Vextor: I'm sure the "Tierkreis 2" moniker is more of a reference to whether or not this new Suikoden game will be in the classic world of the "Infinity" universe. At least it has been when I've used it.
JiggleBiscuits wrote:1. It has been confirmed by several sources - check Siliconera. Konami have announced a new Suikoden game for the PSP. It doesn’t appear to be related to the main series as it doesn’t have a number on it. The game is titled Genso Suikoden: The Woven Web of a Century. The game is “a new story about a hundred worlds, a hundred years later”.
2. I want them to continue the real series. Don't make this counterfeit crap and slap the Suikoden name on it.
3. It is. And you can't prove it's true either.
1. And where's the Tierkreis name in this? it might also be a new world and the story involves time travelling or it is in the main world and maybe takes a look into the future of the world. Or yeah, it can be a Tierkreis II, but why should they change the name to something completely different?
3. I'd agree that IV has done more harm than Tierkreis, especially if you consider that Tierkreis came out at a time when a lot of people already thought Suikoden is dead. It at least brought again some spotlight on the Suikoden name and that's worth something imo. But in the end, it didn't help at all.
About the "rich background repelling new gamers": Well, that was just one thought. I, too, was hyped when I played Suikoden II and they were talking about events and characters from the previous game. But maybe a lot of people don't care, they want a series like Dragon Quest with totally independent worlds.
The funny thing is. Suikoden being a disappointment compared to the first three has never really been in dispute in general, and it's also a general feeling that S5 improved, but the way I see it is... Suikoden IV still had enough classic staples, a pretty cool pirate-laden world to warrant it being worthy of the name in spite of it's disappointment. The funny thing is, as excited as I am to see the series continue in some vein - Tierkreis and its potential kin has me LONGING for something like Suikoden IV.
I would take a story in Nagerea that takes place 200 years in the past/future in exchange for Tierkreis or something equally unrelated.
To everyone saying this is another Tierkreis, there is no "official" confirmation from Konami. Basically, EVERYONE(including all the websites) is assuming that because of the catch phrase that was used in Tierkreis is also in the trailer -- "hyakuman sekai" infinity/million worlds/etc.
Personally, that catchphrase alone is enough for me to see it as another Tierkreis.
