Teaser Trailer

A forum for questions and discussions about the PSP game roughly translated as "The Woven Web of a Century"
DoReMi_Vampire
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Re: Teaser Trailer

Postby DoReMi_Vampire » Wed Sep 21, 2011 8:31 am

Feldoon wrote:I thought it was where the crazier, more thematically evil/demonic monsters came from?

Since it's a pool of dead souls you could also say that it's a place where monsters from EVERY world goes to for a time. I thought of this when Yuber summoned the Bone Dragon in Greenhill, had he summoned something from the World of Wings and Scales it would just be a plain dragon, but since it was the soul of a dead dragon passing through that dimension Yuber was able to bring out a bone-version of it. I don't know, just my personal theory.
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Feldoon
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Re: Teaser Trailer

Postby Feldoon » Wed Sep 21, 2011 8:34 am

DoReMi_Vampire wrote:
Feldoon wrote:I thought it was where the crazier, more thematically evil/demonic monsters came from?

Since it's a pool of dead souls you could also say that it's a place where monsters from EVERY world goes to for a time. I thought of this when Yuber summoned the Bone Dragon in Greenhill, had he summoned something from the World of Wings and Scales it would just be a plain dragon, but since it was the soul of a dead dragon passing through that dimension Yuber was able to bring out a bone-version of it. I don't know, just my personal theory.

It's more likely to be from Emptiness than Wings and Scales. Of course, I'm just speaking from my own experiences and have no actual evidence to back it up. I just entirely agree with you.

Then again didn't Yuber do something similar with Windy in the first game? I need to replay the first two games at some point.

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Re: Teaser Trailer

Postby tiki » Wed Sep 21, 2011 5:59 pm

patapi wrote:Hmmm, I'm surprised that there are Tierkreis players who didn't realise that the terms Infinity and the Million Worlds are one and the same thing in Suikoden. The latest edition of the series encyclopedia sealed the deal, with the "main" Suikoden world being reduced to just one of the innumerable worlds in existence, alongside named worlds like World of Emptiness, Wings and Scales, etc.


was that encyclopedia written before or after Tierkreis's release

I'm guessing after

which is why I do not accept it as canon and will not accept anything as canon that reduces the importance of the main world to just some random place where nothing matters because there's an infinite number of worlds out there oh and one of those worlds happened to save every world in the Infinity by fighting God

screw that

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Re: Teaser Trailer

Postby alter ego » Wed Sep 21, 2011 8:46 pm

As a 'plot-twist' is still not as bad as Star Ocean 3's: "We're just videogame characters, but we can become real thanks to the power of love" so I can live with it.

But c'mon, we already knew there were plenty of worlds out there, parallel universes and what not; and eventually a ragtag group of heroes would had to defeat God in order to save the day. That's essentially what Luc tried to do, isn't it? That's what the fans have been wanting all along! Yeah, it's cheap, but it's the thruth. And it's rather sad that it was the Tierkreis guys who did it instead of Tir, Riou, Jowy, et all. but anyway...

What I'm trying to say is that totally get you, Tiki. But this "I'll not accept it as canon" attitude is a little too much for even the most adamant suikoden fan, don't you think?

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Re: Teaser Trailer

Postby tiki » Wed Sep 21, 2011 8:58 pm

alter ego wrote:But c'mon, we already knew there were plenty of worlds out there, parallel universes and what not; and eventually a ragtag group of heroes would had to defeat God in order to save the day.


no, fark that

Suikoden is not Final Fantasy, it isn't about saving the saving the world, much less saving the universe, and no one fights God

that is the cheapest, laziest tripe peddled out by hacks of writers to the simpletons who expect nothing more from RPGs than making lots of big numbers pop up over enemy's heads

That's essentially what Luc tried to do, isn't it? That's what the fans have been wanting all along! Yeah, it's cheap, but it's the thruth. And it's rather sad that it was the Tierkreis guys who did it instead of Tir, Riou, Jowy, et all. but anyway...


no, Luc wasn't fighting against God, he just had visions of a future in which the world was full of suck and thought that by breaking his True Rune he could change that

no real fan of Suikoden has ever wanted the series to be about fighting God or saving the world

go play Dragon Quest, Final Fantasy, Secret of Mana or a number of any other bland, cookiecutter and cliche RPGs if that's what you're after

I enjoy the series because it's about the struggle of the underdog against a reasonable foe, rebels against an empire, city-states against an invading nation, clashing of various clans in a small land

toss in some omnipowerful deity being and suddenly none of that matters because hey who cares about diplomacy or the struggle of the weak, let's go beat up God and save the world with our team of 4-6 people

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Re: Teaser Trailer

Postby Rachael » Wed Sep 21, 2011 10:47 pm

tiki wrote:no real fan of Suikoden


I'm getting really sick of this.

You know what a real Suikoden fan is? Someone who likes the Suikoden games. That's it. It is possible to be a Suikoden fan and like Tierkreis. It is possible to be a Suikoden fan and be excited about this new game. And like it or not, Tierkreis is an official Suikoden game. It is canon--maybe a different canon than the main series, but it is still canon. Look at anything that has more than one medium. Pokemon has a main game canon, a Colosseum canon, a Mystery Dungeon canon, an anime canon, and a TCG canon. Sailor Moon has an anime canon, a manga canon, and a live action canon. "My Little Pony" has several animated canon.

Stop acting like you're more of a fan than other people. And it's not just you--I've seen other people on this forum acting the same way.

I don't care if you don't look forward to this game. It makes no difference to me if you hate Tierkreis, or if you're not going to support Konami until they release a game from the main series.

But drop the "no real fan" nonsense. It's only making you sound obnoxious.
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Re: Teaser Trailer

Postby tiki » Wed Sep 21, 2011 10:55 pm

I can honestly say that anyone who wants to fight God in Suikoden is not a fan of Suikoden, they're a fan of stupid RPGs

by wanting to fight against God or saving the universe in Suikoden they are cheapening the rest of the series and in effect retroactively ruining the story

it would be like having God come down at the end of Harry Potter after Voldemort has been defeated and challenging Harry Potter to a duel for the fate of all of existence

everything else about the series would be ruined from the godawfulness of that one scene

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Re: Teaser Trailer

Postby Belle » Wed Sep 21, 2011 11:54 pm

Mr. tiki, as amusing as I find your rage and hysteria, you are crossing a line here.

You are no more the authority on what is a "real fan of Suikoden" than you are on what constitutes a "stupid RPG." (read: you're not) I know a few people who consider Suikoden to be just as "stupid" an RPG as the others you've listed, due to the fact it lacks elements of what they consider a true RPG. Fortunately, I don't consider them to be the authority either, or else I wouldn't be posting on these types of message boards.

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Re: Teaser Trailer

Postby Nikisaur » Thu Sep 22, 2011 12:07 am

I full agree with you, Belle. I'm really sick of people judging some people as truer or more proper fans of the series. We ALL have our likes and dislikes. It's not up to you, me, Tiki, KC_McDohl or even the site admins like Vextor to say who is right and who is wrong. Which, I assume, is why they haven't stepped in to stop this kind of childish blame throwing.
The only thing Suikoden lacks...is dinosaurs.

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Re: Teaser Trailer

Postby tiki » Thu Sep 22, 2011 12:14 am

Belle wrote:... than you are on what constitutes a "stupid RPG." (read: you're not)


fighting god

saving the universe

more plot holes than plot

shallow characters, two-dimensional characters, stereotypical characters

villains that exist only to be evil and to want to destroy everything for no apparent reason without any real motivation

heroes that are 100% good and whose only desire is to do good and are more saintly than Jesus Christ himself

yeah I'm pretty sure I covered all the bases there

a good rule of thumb is if it would be stupid in a book's story, it would be stupid for an RPG's story unless you are making Dragon Ball Z: The RPG

It's not up to you, me, Tiki, KC_McDohl or even the site admins like Vextor to say who is right and who is wrong.


I am honestly and openly saying that if anyone wants to fight God and save the universe in Suikoden they are bad and wrong people and are probably the Lowest Common Denominator that most other RPGs pander towards

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Re: Teaser Trailer

Postby alter ego » Thu Sep 22, 2011 12:21 am

"Luc, you challenged God like a fool. You disregarded a million lives with a cursed soul.... You're no real Suikoden fan! >:C"

Ok, ok, on the subject... The teaser is good I guess. It teases alright, that's its only purpose. The character design and art in general seems to be the same as that of Tierkreis, which I didn't quite like; It felt... I don't know, less serious? too anime? ...something.

Also I don't expect this game to be in any way related to previous main installations of the series. Rumors like "That guys looks like Flik" never go anywhere. (thankfully) ...So yeah, bummer, this is not the Suikoden we all have been waiting for, fellas. Better luck in 2014!

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Re: Teaser Trailer

Postby tiki » Thu Sep 22, 2011 12:31 am

the True Runes aren't God, they're powerful MacGuffins, unless you are saying at the Zodiac / Star Dragon Sword is a God

Luc tried to destroy a magical MacGuffin and he lost because other people had more / more powerful magical MacGuffins

see also: The One Ring, magical MacGuffin which needs to be destroyed, not a deity

see also: The Horcruxes, magical MacGuffin which needs to be destroyed, not a deity

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Re: Teaser Trailer

Postby Nikisaur » Thu Sep 22, 2011 12:35 am

Someone looks like someone is an observation, not a rumour. Konami can't be oblivious to the resemblance of the guy in the trailer to one of the most most loved characters of the series... Blue bandana, blue eyes, brown hair that partially hangs over his face... sounds like Flik to me. Except that his hair is too long at the back, I'd say the guy is the spitting image.

I don't think it is coincidence. My guess is the fact that it is a 'teaser', Konami would like to draw the attention of older fans with a familiar image, not just the newer ones that they were fishing for with the release of Tierkreis.
The only thing Suikoden lacks...is dinosaurs.

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Re: Teaser Trailer

Postby Calvin » Thu Sep 22, 2011 12:59 am

the True Runes aren't God, they're powerful MacGuffins, unless you are saying at the Zodiac / Star Dragon Sword is a God


How does one define a God? True Runes are sentient, extremely powerful, and immortal. In this way they remind me much of the ancient mythology of nations like Rome, Greece, and Egypt. True Runes are worshipped by mortal beings: the Sun Rune and Falena, the Circle Rune and Harmonia, and the Rune of Change and the Sindar. They also have been known to have disputes: The Sun and Night Rune. I would argue that in the world of Suikoden, True Runes are exactly like Gods, even if that word isn't used. To say they are only "powerful MacGuffins" is to minimize their importance. They are not just MacGuffins; they are essential to the world.

In your examples, the One Ring is a weapon. The God would be the being that created it. The Horcruxes are similar, except instead of being a weapon they are more a means of protection and defense. As far as True Runes go, we only have a legend to go by as to their beginnings, which reminds me quite a bit of the Bible's Genesis. True Runes simply are.

As for your claim that what happens in this game will not be accepted as canon, that is not for you to decide, nor any fan. Konami decides what is and is not canon.

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Re: Teaser Trailer

Postby tiki » Thu Sep 22, 2011 5:48 am

Jimi Moondance wrote:How does one define a God?


omnipresence, omnipotence, infallibility

those sort of things

when I think of 'God' I don't see a sassy sword that a man uses to beat up enemies with

or something that someone can just steal and keep under their power for hundreds of years

or something that has requires a human being to have much of any power at all

the fact of the matter is they are nothing like the One King at the end of Suikoden Tierkreis who is a devourer of entire universes oh my god I can't get over how stupid that is

As for your claim that what happens in this game will not be accepted as canon, that is not for you to decide, nor any fan. Konami decides what is and is not canon.


nah, sorry, Tierkreis, the Infinity, the One King, universe gobbling and all that other FanFiction.net-esque garbage isn't Suikoden canon, it's Konami's coattail riding continuity seperate from the original series, regardless of what they might desperately want us to believe

Muramaya designed the world of the games, not Konami, Suikoden is his story

even though he did not physically work on Suikoden IV and V, they are still a part of the canon because he explicitly laid out their existence in Suikoden 1-3 with references to the Island Nations and Queendom of Falena

he never mentioned a One King, Mark of Stars, Infinite Alternate Universes or any of the other garbage that was in Tierkreis

canon is not a legal term, Konami has no real authority to claim what is canon and isn't as a result, but I do since I am siding with the author as opposed to the publisher (:


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