NEW SUIKODEN ANNOUNCED BY KONAMI!!! (9-17-2011)

A forum for questions and discussions about the PSP game roughly translated as "The Woven Web of a Century"
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LanceHeart
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Re: NEW SUIKODEN ANNOUNCED BY KONAMI!!! (9-17-2011)

Post by LanceHeart »

So I didn't see this until today, but here's a better breakdown of Suikoden's week-one sales in Japan, courtesy of Siliconera's info.
http://www.siliconera.com/2012/02/17/he ... n-release/
Siliconera wrote:Suikoden: The Woven Web of a Century sold nearly the same amount of copies in its first week as Suikoden Tierkreis did in 2008. Here’s a comparison of first-week sales numbers for the two games:

Suikoden Tierkreis – 67,588

Suikoden: The Woven Web of a Century – 61,784

The primary difference here is that while Tierkreis sold only 45.67% of its shipment in its first week, The Woven Web of a Century sold 75.09%. This means that Konami — or retailers, who accept a certain amount of copies based on estimated demand — learnt something from Tierkreis and decided to have less copies shipped this time around.

Media-Create say that the majority of purchase intent for Suikoden: The Woven Web of a Century came about as a result of visiting the developer’s website. This isn’t much of a surprise, but it means that it was bought primarily by series fans who actively went looking for information on the game.
Not only did Konami anticipate less retail sales, they confirmed to themselves that whoever still buys Suikoden games were fully informed of the game having little to do with traditional "old world" themes. If the games were being reported as selling out at retailers, like Vextor mentioned, then it's likely that whoever missed out on a retail copy in their immediate area went for the digital purchase.

So it seems like this game will end up being a "strong seller" by Konami's standards. To put things into perspective:

Tierkreis initial shipment: 148,000 copies.
PSP initial shipment: 82,300 copies.

From current sales reports for Tierkreis, that initial shippment was barely matched by lifetime sales. If this newest game's sales follow a similar drop-off as Tierkreis (i.e. no more than a 3/4 drop in sales in week-two) it will likely exceed the initial shipment over its lifetime.
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Xelinis
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Re: NEW SUIKODEN ANNOUNCED BY KONAMI!!! (9-17-2011)

Post by Xelinis »

So here's a question: so far, has there been any attempt to develop the world outside of the game's primary setting? Even Tierkries did this a little bit.
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patapi
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Re: NEW SUIKODEN ANNOUNCED BY KONAMI!!! (9-17-2011)

Post by patapi »

Apart from Meamei and Mouie, the other recruitable Feather Tribe members aren't really all that cutesy. I don't know what's meant by "anime" influence though, since animated scenes has been part of the series even during Suikogaiden days. And, seriously, the game has been popular with players of all genders since the very beginning, so why the need to start stereotyping now?

The absence of other battle modes is indeed a shame though, but this is not unexpected after Tierkreis. There are still event battles involving multiple parties, but they are only a handful, and the composition of the alternate parties are entirely story-driven.

And, yes, there are other areas not covered in the game's visitable world map, but introduced through various characters from the different time frames. Regrettably their presence are not as prominent compared to the numbered Suikoden or Tierkreis for story reasons.
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amelia108
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Re: NEW SUIKODEN ANNOUNCED BY KONAMI!!! (9-17-2011)

Post by amelia108 »

so basically i'm reading it's just another stab at "reinventing" the series, but ends up only being slightly better than tierkreis. color me disappoint

i hope the battle system's at least fun. tierkreis' was the first one i just didn't enjoy much at all.
Atma
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Re: NEW SUIKODEN ANNOUNCED BY KONAMI!!! (9-17-2011)

Post by Atma »

Even though I had everything that Tierkreis stands for in that it's the beginning of the derailment of the real series... I have mixed feelings about the actual game. Some of the characters were solid, some of the other elements were solid. The politics that did exist, particularly in that desert kingdom were extremely strong and woulda fit adequately in "New Armes" if they had gone that route with it. That skill system just felt too redundant spanning all the characters and really wasn't that interesting.

I'm trying not to make this a Tierkreis review, I really say that just to point out that the main gripe I ultimately have with it and seems like I may very well have with this new Suikoden is that it'll have enough of what I love in RPGs to make me not hate it entirely, but have also changed enough of the cool crap(like runes) to less interesting things for me to resent everything about it. That's sad.
Celedril
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Re: NEW SUIKODEN ANNOUNCED BY KONAMI!!! (9-17-2011)

Post by Celedril »

That's exactly it Atma. You said it well. It's a good game, but with the title Suikoden slapped on it there are expectations, which are not met. No runes, and the star of destiny thing is not even an in game factor. No mass battles either. It's a well-balanced and interesting game. That's what makes it so frustrating! I like a lot of the characters, and if they had made this game with mass battle elements and set in the canon world, it would have been AWESOME.

Seriously, I mean that. It's a good game. Had Konami tweaked just a few things and set it in the original world it would have been one of the better releases on the whole. I especially think the core characters are great. The hero is awesome. He looks cool, and in fact is probably the coolest-looking hero in the entire series, art-wise. You get to know and like the core characters in the same way as some of the characters from 1 and 2...which is why the game is actually so disappointing. It has so much going right, that you really see what goes wrong and you just get mad at what might have been.

I'm not trying to stereotype Patapi, but when I consider how other games are marketed and the general state of Japanese games and anime, this game is clearly a product of the trends in the latter. But yes, cutesy characters have been in most every game....just not so heavily. The Feathertribe is so lame it makes my eyes water, and the reactions of certain characters toward them is so 'kawaii' that it blows my mind. And they're a main group that I have to deal with all the time. At least in some of the other iterations I didn't have to use those characters I thought were lame, nor were their backgrounds major plot points. I won't say they're all bad. I have one Feathertribe who is pretty cool.

I miss the Wingers!
LanceHeart
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Re: NEW SUIKODEN ANNOUNCED BY KONAMI!!! (9-17-2011)

Post by LanceHeart »

Actually, the Stars of Destiny had a whole lot to do with the story of Tierkreis. They even kept SoD plot twists consistent with The Water Margin, which is standard for all Suikoden games.
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Atma
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Re: NEW SUIKODEN ANNOUNCED BY KONAMI!!! (9-17-2011)

Post by Atma »

Since the subject of the stars of destiny was brought up. I'll point to that as well, because it occurs to me that while I do think having 108 characters to recruit is a really amusing part of the game, at this point I would enjoy a Suikoden game with like 5 playable characters total so long as it took place in the old world... that's sorta interesting I think. That the main selling point of the series from Konami's side is one of the least necessary core elements to why the series is great at this point, even if that wasn't the case at the start.
Celedril
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Re: NEW SUIKODEN ANNOUNCED BY KONAMI!!! (9-17-2011)

Post by Celedril »

That's the part that makes me somewhat sad, somewhat disgruntled at the same time. I would play the worst possible iteration you can imagine if it had some connection to the original storylines and characters that returned (God, what I wouldn't do to see the Yuber-Pesmerga/True Rune story arcs play out!).

Example. I hated a lot about 3...the presentation, the mass-battles, and the graphics. But you know what? At least all of it was there! I loved the game overall in spite of its flaws, and played it several times because I was able to delve into the core world. I've done that with every game in the numbered series. I've also encouraged friends to buy them too.

The newer stuff frustrates, because it keeps the original premise intact but in the barest framework possible, just to keep the barest semblance of Suikoden-like characteristics for reasons I've gone on at length about in other posts. I wish there was some way to get a hold of the Konami collective and just shake some sense into them!

It is strange for me to get this frustrated. I've never liked a game series as much as this. Except Xenogears, the original. And that died too, just like Suikoden is. The original Xenogears was simply epic, one of the best, headiest games ever created. The newer versions for PS2 were ok, but nothing like the first one. Like Suikoden they decided to go off the beaten path, and they just took the name and the barest semblance of the Gears. That's not to say I didn't like those games. I did, just like I like some of the new Suikoden iterations.

But they're not what I want. I remember playing Suikoden in high school and just falling in love with it, thinking it just dominated Final Fantasy and other RPGs that I liked. Ditto for 2.

I have less and less confidence that I'll ever feel that way about Suikoden again.
Ellyos
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Re: NEW SUIKODEN ANNOUNCED BY KONAMI!!! (9-17-2011)

Post by Ellyos »

@Atma:
5 playable characters could be too light for me, but I see your point and it's probably useless to give us 50+ playable characters. Having the choice is nice but too much choices has the opposite effect.

But that's a thing Konami realised and fixed along all the Suikoden sequels. Adding HQ facilities, mini-games, support system, and extending the war battles system each time, that's enough different roles to attribute to recruited characters, and that's not really required to have them playable.

Tsumeji is probably not so bad with less than 20 playable characters but replacing characters by skills is a bit... "easy".
And recruiting the 108 stars is still a core system in Suikoden for me. So yes, if I had choice, I'd prefer a good story in Rune World than 108 recruiting characters. But hell, why should we have to choose ?
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Re: NEW SUIKODEN ANNOUNCED BY KONAMI!!! (9-17-2011)

Post by Antimatzist »

Spinoff-wise, yeah, I would really like to see games not using the standard Suikoden formula but explaining more of the world. Tactics is a good example; using "only" ~60 characters, no HQ, some hidden/bonus scenes explaining the characters, but mostly exploring a part of the Suikoden world. They could very well go for spin-offs like this on the DS imo (not necessarily a S-RPG, they could also experiment with the standard Suikoden-battle-formulas and change it and test things).

This would really make no one complain. It's not a Suikoden VI, but a spin-off which fans would like too. I don't know why Konami doesn't want to do this. The argument "New Fans might get rejected because of the big interesting world etc don't know about characters/backgrounds" is invalid, because in a completely new world, there are only new characters.
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Re: NEW SUIKODEN ANNOUNCED BY KONAMI!!! (9-17-2011)

Post by Antimatzist »

Sales for week 2 are available.
http://www.m-create.com/ranking/
http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread. ... 346&page=1

01./00. [3DS] New Love Plus # (Konami) {2012.02.14} (¥6.980) - 104.969 / NEW
02./00. [PS3] Binary Domain (Sega) {2012.02.16} (¥8.390) - 73.683 / NEW
03./00. [3DS] Theatrhythm Final Fantasy (Square Enix) {2012.02.16} (¥6.090) - 67.206 / NEW
04./04. [3DS] Mario Kart 7 (Nintendo) {2011.12.01} (¥4.800) - 22.015 / 1.506.522 (-7%)
05./06. [3DS] Super Mario 3D Land (Nintendo) {2011.11.03} (¥4.800) - 17.791 / 1.348.776 (-10%)
06./05. [3DS] Monster Hunter 3G # (Capcom) {2011.12.10} (¥5.800) - 17.490 / 1.249.833 (-18%)
07./00. [PSP] Samurai Warriors 3 Z Special (Koei Tecmo) {2012.02.16} (¥6.090) - 17.125 / NEW
08./03. [3DS] Resident Evil: Revelations (Capcom) {2012.01.26} (¥5.990) - 15.666 / 231.907 (-40%)
09./01. [PSP] Suikoden: Tsumugareshi Hyakunen no Toki (Konami) {2012.02.09} (¥5.980) - 13.695 / 75.479 (-78%)
10./02. [PSV] Gravity Rush (Sony Computer Entertainment) {2012.02.09} (¥5.980) - 10.219 / 53.680 (-76%)

Ouch. Tierkreis' second week sales were according to vgchartz ~27,000. I guess this game won't make it above sales of 100k?
LanceHeart
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Re: NEW SUIKODEN ANNOUNCED BY KONAMI!!! (9-17-2011)

Post by LanceHeart »

Since Konami's first shipment of the PSP game is only 55.6% the amount of copies they had for Tierkreis, it stands to reason they're not looking to break 100K retail sales in the first place.

Once again, let's not forget that the game is available digitally on PSN. According to the number of reviews (you can't review a PSN game unless you purchased it), there have been at LEAST 188 purchases. To put things into perspective, even popular games don't actually get a representative amount of reviews for the amount of purchases. Monster Hunter Portable 3rd doesn't even have 1000 reviews, yet has been in the PSN top 20 ever since the game came out.

Since I hadn't bothered to go on the Japanese PSN until today, I can confirm that the game is currently #5 on the top-selling PSP games for this (rather, last) week. Interestingly enough, Suikoden I & II is in #9, beating Frontier Gate. Photo proof is attached to my post.
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Re: NEW SUIKODEN ANNOUNCED BY KONAMI!!! (9-17-2011)

Post by Antimatzist »

Ok - true and I have overlooked that one. But I just wanted to say that I don't think sales will improve in the next weeks.

Is there really no way to see how many digital copies were purchased?
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Re: NEW SUIKODEN ANNOUNCED BY KONAMI!!! (9-17-2011)

Post by KFCrispy »

i also thought vgchartz was a completely unreliable source..
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