Suikoden 1 Tactics Prequel - Outline

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Wolkendrache
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Re: Suikoden 1 Tactics Prequel - Outline

Postby Wolkendrache » Sun Oct 19, 2014 11:44 am

Remember, we only need an explanation to why these people do not attack Leon, we don't need to explain why monsters attack people, cause that's what monsters are doing in the Suiko world. They're actually not different from powerful wild animals (who could overcome humans, like elephant, hippo or tiger), I wouldn't recommend strolling through their territory.

Yeah, it's a good idea to introduce these movement features in the prologue tutorial battle: the ninja have to climb a ramp or so first, and then fight some enemies there.

As for interactive mechanisms, I haven't made detailed concepts for the various battle maps, I think chapter 17 has something like that. I'm fond of this stuff as well, so you're welcome to design them. :wink:
"Within the four seas, all men are brothers" Shuihu Zhuan

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Re: Suikoden 1 Tactics Prequel - Outline

Postby sticky-runes » Sun Oct 19, 2014 12:59 pm

OK, I've read it all. Love how things end for the three ninjas, and the father/son revelation is nicely done. Now we need side quests for recruiting additional characters and other guild quests. I still think Roy and his group should be left out of it, though!

We also need some trademark Viktor moments where he uses his "tricks" to divert enemies!

The monsters being killed by their own elements is funny!

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Re: Suikoden 1 Tactics Prequel - Outline

Postby Wolkendrache » Sun Oct 19, 2014 5:23 pm

Glad you like it! I'm very proud that what hacks you off most is just a minor thing. :D
Yes, of course we need more scenes in order to enhance characterization / develop personalities. Tell me if you have some ideas.

Alright, the optional characters...
Jeane:
Lorelai: Enter a certain tavern with Killey in your party.
Eikei: Win a duel fight against him.
Hellion:
Anji: Complete the quest by customer Kun To and defeat pirates at the port of Kirov.
Kanak: Joins along with Anji.
Leonardo: Joins along with Anji.
Blackman: Bring him some seeds for his fields.
Lester: Bring him 3 different ingredients for his special sushi.
Pesmerga:
Zamza:
Gantetsu: Send a character with enormous strength on this dispatch mission.
Anita: 1. Bring her an antitoxin; 2. Bring her a bottle of wine; 3. When she asks what you want, tell her you’re fighting imperials and she’ll join, because her rival joined the imperials.
Oulan: I’m thinking of something similar to the way we recruited Karl.
Shin:
Rikimaru: Pay for his food?
Badeaux: Help him to defend an animal in an extra battle.
Simone:
Killey: You’ll meet him in one of the rooms in the bonus labyrinth dungeon*. Help him clear the stage and he’ll join.
L.C. Chan:
Georg:
Elza:
Cathari:
Josephine: Enter the tavern with Simone in your group.
Water Creature (Snake): Can be tamed by Badeaux in a certain battle map (water level).
Fire Creature (Salamander): Can be tamed by Badeaux in a certain battle map (magma level).
Wind Creature (Roc): Can be tamed by Badeaux in a certain battle map (open air level).
Earth Creature (Boar): Can be tamed by Badeaux in a certain battle map (cave level).
Lightning Creature (Cockatrice): Can be tamed by Badeaux in a certain battle map (thunder chamber).
Roy, Faylen, Faylon: Alright, ignore them for now then!!! :wink:
*The optional dungeon in this game is some sort of labyrinth. It has 3 entrances which lead to 3 different level 1 rooms. These have several exits which lead to 4 different level 2 rooms (thus, the level 2 rooms have several entrances). Their several exits lead to 4 level 3 rooms, whose exits lead to 5 level 4 rooms, whose exits lead to 5 level 5 rooms. The 5 level 5 rooms have 3 exits each which lead to 3 different versions of a certain elemental chamber. There is no map for this labyrinth, but if the player remembers the paths, he/she has control over the different "sets" of rooms. It was annoying in Rhapsodia to spend hours just to randomly find the room configuration you wanted, without having any control over it.

Any ideas for the blanks or for improvements?
"Within the four seas, all men are brothers" Shuihu Zhuan

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Re: Suikoden 1 Tactics Prequel - Outline

Postby sticky-runes » Mon Oct 20, 2014 5:21 am

If Flik names his sword Odessa at the end of this game, does that mean his weapon will be "Unnamed Sword/Unnamed sword +" throughout this game?

I like the idea of Oulan's recruitment being like Karl's recruitment, but what if it was like her recruitment in 2? So we receive a commission from the quest guild about a gang of thugs that targets females, then we enter a battle with all female characters (a battle which usually has generic monsters, but this time we get the thugs) and then Oulan can appear and help us.

Since Hellion seems acquainted with Eldur and he has a wealth of knowledge about sorcerers in the realm, maybe we meet Hellion in the elf village where she was using her magic to support them.

As for Blackman, maybe his recruitment can be like Dr. Yu where he asks the quest guild for seeds (not for medicine, obviously, but to replenish a field that was trampled by the Imperial cavalry) you hand in the seeds, then some time later you meet Blackman in a town and he says he'll join you to help make sure the Imperials don't damage any more fields.

The monster recruitments can all be "Get rid of the monster!" quests from different villages. The quests become available after we recruit Badeaux and visit each village for the first time.

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Re: Suikoden 1 Tactics Prequel - Outline

Postby Wolkendrache » Mon Oct 20, 2014 7:19 am

Flik’s sword: I’m not sure whether it’s legitimate to give it an insignificant name like “Warrior Sword”, otherwise we go with “Unnamed Sword”.
Blackman: Exactly.
Oulan: You mean after accepting the quest you visit the respective location, but there will only be normal enemies unless your party consists of only young women (Yumiko, Griselde, Azra, Risha, Yalda, Lexy, Lorelei, Faylen). In this case, thugs will show up in turn X as well as Oulan. After they’ve shown up, you can exchange the females with males perhaps. Afterwards she’ll join. I like this idea.
Monster recruitment: I don’t like all the monsters being recruited the same way, I’d like to give the player a “stumble on” feeling. Like 1 or 2 of them recruitable in the optional dungeon, 1 or 2 in monster hunting areas, 1 directly via a guild quest as you described it, and 1 from a battle map that is accessible only in a story battle and maybe two more times from actually monster-nonrelated quests (basically a missable monster).
Hellion: I suppose you mean Eldur’s village, there is no elven village. I don’t think that’s a good idea. Keep in mind you have to distribute the optional characters according to their class, weapon type, and element. You don’t want to wait 10 chapters to get your first X innate character, wait 12 chapters to get your first spear user. Two characters of the same class and weapon type recruitable in the same chapter should really be an exception.

Here is a list of the different character categories that shows you I’m trying to balance things out compared to Rhapsodia. The time of an optional character’s recruitment is another important aspect concerning balance.

Rhapsodia

60 characters in total, 14 original, 46 returning
9 mages, 44 fighters, 7 support characters

12 Auto-recruiting important story characters:
Kyril, Andarc, Seneca, Akaghi, Mizuki, Kika, Corselia, Coop, Simeon, Lino, Busk, Ornela
6 Optional story-related characters:
Pablo, Hervey, Sigurd, Dario, Nalleo, Roget
16 Auto-recruiting less important or non-story characters:
Trishtan, Flare, Gary, Ema, Ameria, Axel, Carrie, Millay, Jeremy, Gretchen, Wendel, Paula, Jewel, Selma, Frederica, Lalacle
26 Optional non-story characters:
Rita, Maxine, Rene, Eugene, Cedric, Rachel, Katarina, Keneth, Tal, Nalkul, Champo, Noah, Reinbach, Charlemagne, Yu, Jeane, Karl, Mitsuba, Reinhold, Kate, Mercenary Leader, Red Mercenary, Yellow Mercenary, Blue Mercenary, Lazlo, Snowe

This Story

60 characters in total, 16 original, 44 returning
5 mages, 5 battle mages, 44 fighters, 6 support characters

18 Auto-recruiting important story characters:
Morio, Yumiko, Kakuji, Gohu, Griselde, Yalda, Eldur, Iris, Odessa, Humphrey, Viktor, Flik, Leon, Sanchez, Kessler, Varkas, Sydonia, Mose
1 Optional story-related character:
Blackman
11 Auto-recruiting less important or non-story characters:
Azra, Risha, Trishna, Lexy, Mondo, Maximillian, Sancho, Warren, Taggart, Jeane(?), Viki
30 Optional non-story characters:
Lorelai, Lester, Eikei, Hellion, Anji, Kanak, Leonardo, Pesmerga, Zamza, Gantetsu, Anita, Oulan, Shin, Rikimaru, Badeaux, Simone, Killey, Long Chan Chan, Georg, Elza, Cathari, Josephine, Roy, Faylen, Faylon, Monster 1, Monster 2, Monster 3, Monster 4, Monster 5

Weapon: Rhapsodia/this story
Sword: 12/6
Gr. Sword: 4/5
Axe: 2/4
Spear: 7/4
Claw: 5/4
Fist: 2/4
Hammer: 1/4
Bow: 4/3
Darts: 2/4
Gun: 0/2
Staff: 9/5
Others: 5/9

Element: Rhapsodia/this story
Water: 15/12
Fire: 13/13
Wind: 10/12
Earth: 12/11
Lightning: 9/11
"Within the four seas, all men are brothers" Shuihu Zhuan

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Re: Suikoden 1 Tactics Prequel - Outline

Postby sticky-runes » Mon Oct 20, 2014 11:45 am

Sorry, I thought Eldur was supposed to be an elf chief. Fair enough, it would be weird to have another elf village in Scarlet Moon.

OK, I thought up a new idea for Hellion's recruitment. Bare in mind I might have overthought this one, but I think Hellion is awesome so I don't mind fussing over her.

Hellion is on her own personal quest to carry some magical object to a shrine (Sort of like Jeane/Eresh quest in S5). But she is being pursued by a gang of thieves who want to steal the magical object, believing they can use it to unlock a heap of treasure inside the shrine.

We first meet Hellion in the bustling market streets of Kirov. a little scene plays out where a young man snatches Hellion's satchel and walks off with it, but Morio stops him and scares him off. Morio hands the satchel back to Hellion and she thanks him. He asks if she needs any more assistance, but she tells him not to worry about her and hobbles off with her walking stick.

Later on, we see Hellion in a plain or valley map that we are crossing through. This time she is surrounded by a whole group of thieves trying to mug her. Morio's friends say "We have to help that old lady!" but then Hellion casts an earthquake spell and scatters the thieves, then one of Morio's friends says sarcastically "Maybe it's the bandits who need rescuing..."
We then engage in a battle with Morio's group plus Hellion fighting the thieves and we get to use her Mother Earth rune.
After the battle, the thieves run off and Hellion thanks the group. Again, they offer to assist her further, but again she declines the offer and hobbles off in her old lady manner.
Then a guild quest becomes available from a villager saying "some thieves are pillaging our local shrine! Please send aid immediately!"
We enter the battle map for the shrine location, where Hellion is confronting the thieves, scolding them for stealing her magical object while she was staying at an inn. We help her defeat the thieves. After the battle, Hellion finishes her business in the shrine and seals it up. Finally, she agrees to join us permanently.

Whadya think?

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Re: Suikoden 1 Tactics Prequel - Outline

Postby Wolkendrache » Mon Oct 20, 2014 12:45 pm

Beautiful! Let me tell you, when I was thinking about returning characters, Hellion was one of the first who came in mind.
Let me add a few thoughts. The first two meetings should be optional, I mean not auto-playing in the course of the main story. So in Kirov, you're given the choice to go "to the streetcorner", and for the second meeting, you have to enter the location and then select "wayside" or something like that. The third meeting is optional anyway. And secondly, I think one extra battle is enough if we keep in mind that maybe not all players are as interested in her as we are. Other than that I think it would be funny if after the quest battle she will say something like "You young people are very skilled in getting into trouble. Do you mind if I join you to take care of you for a while?" This will make the party feel a little embarrassed, because they assumed the roles of helper and helped would be the other way round.

Great, come up with more ideas for the other characters!
"Within the four seas, all men are brothers" Shuihu Zhuan

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Re: Suikoden 1 Tactics Prequel - Outline

Postby sticky-runes » Mon Oct 20, 2014 1:18 pm

I had an idea for a campfire scene between Yalda and the pirates, in which Yalda thinks she is the Queen of Obel.

We see Kanak standing by the fire, and he's about to head off to bed, when he turns and sees Yalda.
Kanak: Oh, hi there. Lovely evening, ain't it?
Yalda: ...........................
Kanak: ............. Um, are you alright, miss?
Yalda: You filthy pirate scum.
Kanak: That's a little harsh, I'm the nice pirate. Leonardo, he's the grumpy one.
Yalda: How dare you invade the peaceful waters of Obel.
Kanak: Obel? We've never even sailed any where near that place before...
Yalda: I will die before I let you harm my family. (she raises her left hand)
Kanak: *Gulp*
Yalda: Feel the wrath of my cursed rune!!!
Kanak: Eeeyyyyaaaahhhhhh!!!! (he ducks down, covering his head. Nothing happens)
Leonardo: What the hell is all this noise? Don't you know people are trying to sleep around here?!
Kanak: It's miss Yalda, she's....
Leonardo: huh?
Yalda: ...... My husband... My children... You will be safe now.... The kingdom... Is safe. (she walks off)
Leonardo: What's that all about? I didn't even know she was married.
Kanak: Are we... Are we dead? Is this what Davy Jones' locker looks like?
Leonardo: Oh, get up you idiot!

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Re: Suikoden 1 Tactics Prequel - Outline

Postby Wolkendrache » Mon Oct 20, 2014 1:40 pm

:lol:
This conversation has the Suikoden spirit we all miss. More of this!!!
(I just wouldn't use the term "Davy Jones' locker"...)
"Within the four seas, all men are brothers" Shuihu Zhuan

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Re: Suikoden 1 Tactics Prequel - Outline

Postby sticky-runes » Mon Oct 20, 2014 2:13 pm

One of the pirates in S5 says Davy Jones, so I thought I'd throw it in there ;)

Other women Yalda mistakes herself for...

Katarina: Come, my knights of Razril! Let us fight for the honor of Commander Glen!

Kate: (to Yumiko and Kakuji) Akagi... Mizuki... Isn't it about time you tied the knot?

Elenor: (to Leon) A solid plan. Couldn't have put it better myself. Now where's my drink? AGNES!!!

Miranda: (after being beaten in combat) Forgive me, Corselia...

Sialeeds: (after swapping her out of combat) You better not let any harm come to my nephew, you wretched woman.

Jewel: don't tell me we have to fight Snowe again...

Arshtat: (to Morio) I'm so proud of you, my son! I hope you'll look out for your little sister.

Alenia: (to Morio) Traitorous prince. I'll deliver your head to Lord Godwin myself!

It would be nice if Yalda has several different comments when adding/removing/losing her in combat.

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Re: Suikoden 1 Tactics Prequel - Outline

Postby Wolkendrache » Mon Oct 20, 2014 3:08 pm

This S5 pirate can suck my tentacle. I'm still reluctant to mention names of personalities who are not part of the Suikoden world. Not in my house! 8)

Seems you like Yalda. Let me tell you about her past: Her mother was a historian and a very loving mother. When Yalda was a child, every evening she always told her stories of heroes and heroines from history until Yalda fell asleep. She even improvized fictional conversations to make it more exciting to her child. Her father was a rune master, and due to the mother's literary input, Yalda urged her father to teach her some magic and fighting from an early age. When she was only nine years of age, her parents were murdered, leaving her traumatized. She fled into the world of her heroes, the world her mother created in her mind. She was raised by neighbors, but doesn't recognize the people she's really talking to anymore, although she can still distinguish right from wrong. All this is not revealed in the game.

So most of your quotes are fine, but some are not likely, e.g. Kate, because I don't think she's very prominent in history books; and Alenia, because Yalda wouldn't identify with the villains, and moreover, she would always view Morio as an ally, mostly a superior, that's why she's following him all the time. She wouldn't view him as an enemy.

You're really good at this. How about some funny Viktor rest scene next? Or, just share whatever comes in your mind...
"Within the four seas, all men are brothers" Shuihu Zhuan


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