Suikoden 1 Tactics Prequel - Outline

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Wolkendrache
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Suikoden 1 Tactics Prequel - Outline

Postby Wolkendrache » Tue Sep 23, 2014 5:22 am

I was starting this after feeling motivated by the „Whatever happened to…?” thread. Some of the members there (including me) expressed their wish for a Suikoden 1 tactics prequel. Since then I was bubbling over with ideas, brought them to paper, put them together, and now I’ve something like a script/concept outline. I’m sharing it for the sake of discussion and entertainment, I’m not planning a game project whatsoever. Be warned, it’s gonna be long!

Please let’s do some kind of role play scenario to look at it in a more sophisticated way, so use your imagination: Konami has hired a writer (that’s my role) to develop a story for a Suikoden 1 Tactics Prequel. The writer wants to ask Suikoden specialists (which are you guys) for professional input and reasonable ideas for improvement, so he presents his ideas to them…


Setting

Northern part of the Scarlet Moon Empire (Dana region), plus northeastern Senan (eastern part of the Karakas desert). Locations are: Banner Mines, “Secret Factory”, Kalekka, Sarady, Mt. Tigerwolf, Kirov, plus a couple of “new” villages und dungeons etc.
It’s the year 453, on the brink of the Liberation Army’s founding.


Plot Summary (with regard to history)

In the year 453, more and more imperial soldiers appear in the forest around Rokkaku. Chief Hanzo orders his adult and battle-scarred ninja to guard the area around the hamlet, and sends off 3 young ninja to gather information in the south. These three 16-year-olds are Morio (hero), as well as Yumiko and Kakuji, the hero’s best friends.

At the Banner Mines they secretly overhear a conversation between the chief warden and a high-ranking imperial, and thus get witnesses to [evil plans/deeds] that threaten the whole region. They are spotted and pursued into western direction. When they are forced to jump into the Dunan river, Morio is separated from his friends.

Morio is saved by a vagabond called Viktor (some memories of a future event come up), who decides to help Morio to get back on track. Because of the strong currents of the river, they are forced to head south before crossing the river. They end up in Kirov.

In Kirov, Odessa, the leader of the Anti-Imperial Movement (after Achilles was killed), and her fellow Humphrey try to get new recruits, but they get ambushed by imperials and separated. Humphrey is supported by the approaching group of the hero, while Odessa is saved by another swordsman who turns out to be Flik. Odessa asks the hero to join, but being on a mission himself and trying to find his friends, he rejects. Viktor however, along with Flik, joins Odessa’s movement.

The hero travels north to Kalekka, where he is ambushed, but rescued by Odessa and Co, who are about to return to Sarady, their temporary headquarters. Rejecting another request, the hero and Odessa part again.

In the hills north of Kalekka, the hero and his two friends are reunited, and they become witnesses once again. This time it’s about a plan to attack Odessa’s hideout at Sarady. The hero decides to head for Sarady to warn Odessa, after all she has saved his life.

After some troubles on the way there, they finally meet Odessa and tell her about the upcoming attack. This time, the hero decides to support her in this battle. However, some preparations have to be made. First, an alliance with the Mt. Tigerwolf bandits has to be forged to get higher in number. Secondly, Odessa wants to ask her uncle Leon Silverberg for help in this battle. Leon’s immediate request is to get some high quality weapons from a nearby blacksmith called Mose (not fire spears!). Having accomplished all that, even though seriously inferior in number, they succeed in fighting off the imperials.

However, one day later the hideout is overrun by monsters from the Banner Mines (this is linked to the [evil plans/deeds]). The heroes decide to head for the Mines to destroy [evil]. They finally reach the mines, and after fighting several battles outside and inside the mines and freeing the prisoners, they succeed in destroying the [evil] that threatens the region.

Afterwards, the various alliances between Odessa’s movement, the bandit gangs, and the hero and his fellows are dissolved. However, Odessa’s movement would grow and be transformed and renamed into the Liberation Army.

About the [evil…]: I have some ideas, but didn’t think deeper into it yet. For example, Windy had put a Conquerer Rune on the chief warden and makes him the supervisor of a project for a certain device or a monster crossbreeding technique (to improve them), so the Banner Mines are transformed into an experimental labor, and the prisoners are used to test the monsters. This is a secret project, so not even the imperial soldiers of that region know about it. The only things outsiders realize are increasing prisoner transports, and an increasing number of soldiers appointed to guard the mines (that’s what makes Hanzo suspicious). This project has already been started some years ago, but the first results are just about to show up, so an even bigger threat would follow if this is not stopped. After its destruction in this story, Windy immediately sets up a new project there, but she is killed in S1 before it can become a bigger threat. I am aware that Windy can just summon monsters from other worlds, but the above mentioned project is about how to make them more powerful. Windy herself doesn’t really need to appear in this story.


Plot Summary (with regard to the hero’s fate)

13 years earlier, when Hanzo wasn’t the head ninja yet, while he was on guard in the forest south of Rokkaku, he heard the sounds of wolves. He followed them and found a little boy surrounded by a wolf pack. The boy had a nasty wound on the right side of his face,* and although his situation seemed hopeless, there was no fear in his look. For some reason, the wolves didn’t dare getting close to him. Hanzo scared the wolves away and brought the foundling to the hamlet, and since he was too young to be able to tell them about his origins, he was allowed to stay there. He was given the name Morio** and was raised by the ninja community. The ninja even granted him ninja education, even though he could never become a higher ranking ninja, because he wasn’t born as one. Although he was extremely skilled, brave and smart, he would never be awarded with a unique ninja rune. One night however, when Morio was 10 years old and Hanzo had become the hamlet’s chief, a female magician appeared in Hanzo’s dream, who told him to give Morio the ??? Rune (a rare ninja rune). Without telling anyone about this apparition, Hanzo gave Morio the rune short after his graduation. This aroused resentment among some ninja, especially the older and more traditional ones, as well as some of higher rank. Luckily Hanzo could use Morio’s excellent test results at least as some kind of excuse.

In his time as a sparrow, Yumiko and Kakuji became his best friends. When they were about 16 years of age, they were ordered by Hanzo to discover the reason for the increased appearance of imperial soldiers near Rokkaku. Hanzo also told them to return complete and in good health. On their mission that proceeded anything but smooth, Morio would at first find some hints about his origins coincidentally. Later, when Eldur tells him everything he knows about the chief warden of the Banner Mines, the puzzle is as good as complete.

The chief warden had once been a kind-hearted person, a good husband, and a skilled and loyal imperial commander. Shortly after his wife bore a son, he was promoted to chief warden of the Banner Mines, but this turned out to be his demise. This position demanded torture, beating and killing people from him, guilty or not. He suggested his wife to leave the empire with their son, but she didn’t want their son to grow up as a vagabond. As soon as the son was three years of age, the chief warden was so desperate, that he decided to kill his son. He didn’t want to raise a son who would either despise him or become like him. He took him to the forest north and planned to kill him with his sword, but he didn’t have the heart to strike with full force, so he left him there wounded (the latter detail is not told by Eldur, but auto-revealed by the hero). As a result, his wife left him and was never seen again. All these events made him this cruel and heartless.

Morio meets and battles his father in the Banner Mines and wins the duel. His father apologizes for everything and hands over a letter to him, and dies from his wounds afterwards. This letter was written by Morio’s mother some time after she left her husband. Therein she curses the latter for what he has done, but also reveals that she lives on some faraway continent now (Zelant or so). Morio decides not to return to Rokkaku, but to go on a journey to search for his mother instead (he isn’t a born ninja after all, and he wouldn’t have a family in Rokkaku like all the other ninja anyway).

Yumiko and Kakuji decide to accompany him (perhaps as well as some other new characters). They leave a letter, written by Yumiko, which is brought to Hanzo by Mondo. Therein, Yumiko doesn’t reveal all the details, but she explains that Morio has received hints about the whereabouts of his mother, and that she and Kakuji will stay by his side. After all, without Morio they wouldn’t be complete (Hanzo told them to return complete). In addition she gives an indication that the goal is far away (like they’ll soon see if Hanzo was right about what he told Kakuji about sailing), without telling where it is, so that the ninja can’t catch them and keep Morio from his search, but also for the sake of preventing Hanzo from wasting ninja forces to search for them. Lastly, on behalf of all the three, she thanks Hanzo for everything he has done for them, apologizes for all the inconveniences they brought upon the ninja. She promises to return one day with Kakuji, because at least the two of them have family in Rokkaku.***

* Later, as a ninja, he would always cover the scar on the right side of his face, using a piece of cloth attached to his bandana.
** It isn’t told that Suikoden ninja know Japanese, but most of the ninja have common Japanese names with a meaning that suits them (Kage = Shadow, Kasumi = Mist, Akagi = Red something, etc.). Morio means Forest Hero.
*** I’ve read on Gensopedia (under “Sasuke”) that ninja children are not told the identity of their parents while growing up. For this story, I need to know at what age they’re getting to know about their parents, as well as whether they’re told about their social status in their childhood or not.
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Re: Suikoden 1 Tactics Prequel - Outline

Postby sticky-runes » Tue Sep 23, 2014 7:16 am

Need some lists. Battle lists/chapters, with active party members.

And will the combat system be the same as the original Tactics, with elemental terrain effects, or will it be all new? Will runes work the same way, i.e. magic sword runes for fighters and spell runes for staff users only, or can any character use elemental runes?

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Re: Suikoden 1 Tactics Prequel - Outline

Postby Wolkendrache » Tue Sep 23, 2014 7:30 am

I just began two weeks ago or so, don't push me :wink:
Below is the character list and some ideas on gameplay. A chapter list with plot summaries might follow soon.
I'm not good at story-writing, even less in english, there'll not be a full script or literary piece of work.

New Characters

Morio (hero)
Class: Fighter; Weapon: Claws; Element: Wind
13 years earlier, when Hanzo wasn’t the head ninja yet, while he was on guard in the forest south of Rokkaku, he heard the sounds of wolves. He followed them and found a little boy surrounded by a wolf pack. The boy had a nasty wound on the right side of his face, and although his situation seemed hopeless, there was no fear in his look. For some reason, the wolves didn’t dare getting close to him. Hanzo scared the wolves away and brought the foundling to the hamlet, and since he was too young to be able to tell them about his origins, he was allowed to stay there. He was given the name Morio (mori = forest, o = hero) and was raised by the ninja community. The ninja even granted him ninja education, even though he could never become a higher ranking ninja, because he wasn’t born as one. Although he was extremely skilled, brave and smart, he would never be awarded with a unique ninja rune. One night however, when Morio was 10 years old and Hanzo had become the hamlet’s chief, a female magician appeared in Hanzo’s dream, who told him to give Morio the ??? Rune (a rare ninja rune). Without telling anyone about this apparition, Hanzo gave Morio the rune short after his graduation. This aroused resentment among some ninja, especially the older and more traditional ones, as well as some of higher rank. Luckily Hanzo could use Morio’s excellent test results at least as some kind of excuse. However, the majority liked him very much, and those who loved him most were his best friends Yumiko and Kakuji.

Yumiko
Class: Fighter; Weapon: Claws; Element: Lightning
She is the most self-disciplined and rational among the three, and thus, she has kept the others from trouble many times. They would only get into trouble, whenever she had to stay at the dojo to take care of the younger sparrows. She would often be ordered to do so, because she was very mature for her age and could assume responsibility. That’s why Hanzo actually addresses his orders for the mission to Yumiko primarily, but letting the others accompany her, because of their skills and even more because of their unbreakable loyalty among each other. Her parents are middle rank ninja, so like Morio, she would never become a chief ninja, but nonetheless she loves the life of a ninja and the peacefulness and calmness of Rokkaku. Due to her exceeding test results, she was granted a Shrike Rune, something she would mention whenever Kakuji tries to tease her, because he failed at getting this rune. In contrast to her two friends, she loves to read and write, and she keeps her diary in her pocket wherever she goes.

Kakuji
Class: Fighter; Weapon: Darts; Element: Water
He’s a hot-tempered and extravert personality on the one hand, but a very agile and skilled ninja on the other hand. He is cheeky towards others, regardless of their rank, only for some entertainment or to protect his friends. After all he’s a rascal with a sense of justice, not a bully. He is always nice towards Morio, but he loves to tease Yumiko, mostly by calling her a geek (because of her love for reading) or servant (because of her rank). Whenever Morio is nearby Yumiko would then answer that Morio is of no rank at all, and both would immediately apologize to Morio, but at least it would end Kakuji’s talk. He always wished to get a Shrike Rune, but this was adjourned sine die due to his bad final test results (in the field of self-discipline), and he later denied his wish stating that he preferred ninja stars anyway, which was a lie, but in fact, he was actually better at it than at claw fighting. Kakuji has one unique trait: he wishes to travel far away and see other countries, and this curiousness haunts him more with every year passing by. When one day he asked Hanzo about ships crossing the ocean, Hanzo said: “One of the few things that bring ninja to their knees is ship traveling.”

Gohu
Class: Fighter; Weapon: Flail (hammer type); Element: Water
He and his little sister are living in a fishermen village, located at the inward flow of the Dunan river. Brigands from the desert rarely try to raid the village, because they’ve long learned that this village can defend itself, training their children early on to become fierce warriors. The parents of Gohu and his sister have perished when they were about 10 years of age. This made them even tougher physically; it made them become two among the best fighters and fishermen. Mentally however, it’s obvious that some source of wisdom and experience was missing in their childhood, and this made them very naïve and superstitious. I’m thinking of a humorous scene for them to join: There’s a big statue of a fish (like a river kami) in the village, which was once damaged on its right side during a brigand’s raid more than a century ago. When the two coincidentally spot the hero’s scar on the right side of his face, they see it as an omen to follow him, which makes the other fishermen shake their heads. Gohu has a rare Firefly Rune.

Griselde
Class: Fighter; Weapon: Mace (hammer type); Element: %
It’s not a custom in their village for females to become warriors. Men and women have equal positions, but women would do the tasks that require concentration and light-fingeredness. Griselde however wanted to become a warrior like Gohu, and there was no parental authority to forbid it. Feeling sorry about what happened to their parents, the other fishermen and –women would grant their wishes, even if it broke traditions. Griselde has no fixed element because of her Chameleon Rune. Once, the two of them saved a traveling rune master, who got lost in the desert, from dying of thirst. They took him to their village for recovery, and one night he asked Gohu about the most important thing in their lives. Gohu answered, that to him, it is protecting his sister. On the day of the rune master’s departure, he attached these rare runes to them as a token of his gratitude.

Azra
Class: Fighter; Weapon: Sword; Element: Fire
She’s a swordmistress running the quest guild at Kirov along with her associate Risha. Because of Risha’s lazyness in terms of administrative work, she has to stay at the guild house. Like Lalacle, she would join in a NG+. She and Risha are both formidable fighters, but in terms of personality, they’re quite opposed characters. Azra has a very professional attitude, she’s doing the job for the prestige of the business, while Risha is doing it for her personal prestige, and yet, the cooperation works somehow.

Risha
Class: Fighter; Weapon: Spear; Element: Wind
Risha is Azra’s associate at the quest guild. From a business standpoint, she has some serious deficits in character: she always tries to find excuses to avoid the administrative work in the guild, but she loves to tell their customer’s about the success of their jobs to get the compliments. She tries hard to absent herself from stupid errands, but she loves dangerous missions which could boost her fame. The hero’s adventure just happens to sound like one of this kind.

Yalda
Class: Battle Mage; Weapon: Sword; Element: Earth
In a middle game chapter, the hero will ambush an imperial caravan heading for the mines by which she’ll be freed. Since she doesn’t seem to be sane, the hero will drag her along. It turns out she’s indeed a lunatic, always believing she’s a historic figure, and these figures change constantly. Mostly she’s some prominent fighter from the past, and views the hero as her respective king or leader and calls him as such.

Eldur
Class: Mage; Weapon: Staff; Element: Fire
He’s the chief of a village located at the foot of the mountain range that separates this area from the Sarady area in the southeast of it. When the main force from the Banner Mines attacked the hideout at Sarady, his village was besieged by the rearguard, but due to his magical powers they could protect it for some time. When the hero and his group arrived, they fought off the foes together, but since the main force would sooner or later come for them, the village had to be evacuated. Eldur decides to join the hero to fight the “big threat” in the mines. He would also give the hero background information about the chief warden of the mines, which turns out to also be background information about the hero himself...

Iris
Class: Fighter; Weapon: Sword; Element: Water
Iris is an imperial commander assigned to supervise the transports of prisoners to the mine, so she starts out as an antagonist. She will have a change of mind later and will get imprisoned within the mines, and when the hero’s group frees her, she’ll join. Something similar to Roget, so you’ll stumble on her several times to battle her only to recruit her later.

"Returning" Characters

Odessa
Class: Battle Mage; Weapon: Bow; Element: Wind
Shortly after her fiancé Achilles was killed by the empire, she fled to Sarady and used it as a base of operations for the continuation of the Anti-Imperial Movement which was founded by Achilles. The first prominent recruit was Sir Humphrey. When these two went to Kirov in search of new members, she was ambushed by imperial forces, but due to the timely support of Flik, she survived. During this story, more characters would join her movement, but only after this story, when this movement had clearly transformed from an opposition into an armed resistance, it would be renamed into Liberation Army with Odessa being the leader, and they would afterwards gradually reinforce their influence in the Arus region.

Viktor
Class: Fighter; Weapon: Gr. Sword; Element: Fire
At the start of this story, he lives alone at the southernmost reaches of the Karakas desert, close to the Dunan river (this should hint that he came from the north, overcoming the wall between the desert and the Badlands). He’ll save the hero in a way which will remind the player of how he saved (will save) Riou. He’ll accompany the hero to Kirov, where they stumble on Humphrey, and help him to fight off imperials. He would then join Odessa and leave the hero, but later both groups would ally to destroy the big threat which I haven’t exactly thought up yet. It would be entertaining if he had a little rivalry with Flik at the beginning, and if we could see how it developed to a deep friendship.

Flik
Class: Fighter; Weapon: Sword; Element: Lightning
It is said that Flik saving Odessa is how they first met, so at the same time Viktor and the hero help Humphrey, Odessa is saved by Flik, and he immediately joins Odessa’s group. We would witness how he fell in love with her, and when he named his sword after her. A good writer is required for this, I would totally screw it.

Humphrey
Class: Fighter; Weapon: Gr. Sword; Element: Earth
This story will make him Odessa’s first prominent recruit, he’ll already be her ally when the hero meets her for the first time. Other than that, ……yo.

Sanchez
Class: Support (defense boost); Element: Earth
As a new member of Odessa’s movement he’ll not be suspicious at this point, because he has to try to gain Odessa’s trust. This means there’ll be no indications in this story that he is actually a spy.

Mose
Class: Fighter; Weapon: Hammer; Element: Fire
He’s one of the first members of the Liberations Army. In this story you’ll witness Flik, Viktor, Sanchez and Mose joining Odessa’s movement (Humphrey already being on her side). The Secret Factory doesn’t exist yet, but I’d make this blacksmith have a secret warehouse which would later be transformed into the factory. I wanted Ronnie Bell appear as well, but her dialogue in S1 (the infamous “giant woman” scene) forces me to decide between her and the 4 bandits, and I’d choose the bandits. Ronnie Bell is replaced by Oulan (only gameplay-wise, not story-wise of course).

Kessler
Class: Fighter; Weapon: Axe; Element: Water
When he met Odessa in S1, it is indicated that he has at least seen her before. The fact that he’s talking to Odessa and not to Viktor is acceptable, because Odessa is much more famous. I think it’s alright to make him appear in this story, and Mt. Tigerwolf is a part of the Dana region.

Lexy
Class: Support (thief); Element: Water
She is Ledon’s replacement, because Ledon’s dialogue in S1 makes it impossible for him to appear in this story. I’d make him absent and be replaced by his sister or so (maybe someone not related to him). She is a thief too of course. Joins and leaves along with Kessler.

Varkas
Class: Fighter; Weapon: Axe; Element: Lightning
When we free him in Rockland in S1, Viktor is in the party, but they don’t talk to each other. You could see this as an indication that they haven’t met before. Viktor says something like “let’s get out of here quickly”, which can be interpreted as there wasn’t the time for talking. It’s a borderline case imo, I would let him appear here. Story-wise I’d have him come to Mt. Tigerwolf due to a dispute with Kessler, then Odessa and the hero would defeat all of them to finish the dispute and make them do an alliance with the hero and Odessa (they don’t join Odessa’s movement).

Sydonia
Class: Fighter; Weapon: Darts; Element: Earth
Joins and leaves along with Varkas.

Lorelai
Class: Fighter; Weapon: Bow; Element: Water
She’s got the Treasure Hunt Skill, so she can detect hidden items. After the events, she is fooled by Killey to explore Sindar ruins in the south of Toran, but the truth is that there aren’t any.

Viki
Class: Mage; Weapon: Staff; Element: Water
Actually we don’t need her, because we don’t need to teleport. On the other hand, she wouldn’t be amiss as a mage. I’ve read somewhere that she first appeared in Toran when meeting Tir, but I don’t know if this is an official source information or just a perception or conclusion from the perspective of a player.

Stallion/Cathari
Class: Fighter; Weapon: Bow/Gun (bow type); Element: Wind
I’d actually prefer Cathari as the True Holy Rune character to increase the amount of females (which is low unfortunately), what do you think? The rune gives them double the movement range, but they have only one free rune slot. After a selection has been made, I hope I can think of a way of how to integrate them.

Maximillian
Class: Fighter; Weapon: Spear; Element: Lightning
From a geographical perspective this absolutely makes sense. He appears in the Dana region, few years later in the Senan region and few years later in the South Window region. These regions are all close to each other. Yes, we can finally use him as a fighter. And since we’re fighting evil again…

Sancho
Class: Support (heal); Element: Lightning
Joins and leaves along with Maximillian.

Eikei
Class: Fighter; Weapon: Fists; Element: Earth
Unimportant character with almost no dialogue in S1, so he should be no problem. Always searching for worthy opponents, he could have an epic duel with Long Chan Chan.

Hellion
Class: Mage; Weapon: Staff; Element: Earth
I think her appearance wouldn’t be a problem. Out of respect for her age I’d make her the most powerful mage (even though Jeane and maybe Viki might be older). In case you don’t remember, she already has a Mother Earth Rune attached.

Jeane
Class: Mage; Weapon: Staff; Element: Lightning
In S2, I can’t remember any comment by another returning character as indication that he/she knows her from Toran of S1 (maybe only Sheena). It was as if she’s a new character. Is there anything you could do wrong by using her in a Suikoden story?

Anji
Class: Fighter; Weapon: Spear; Element: Water
Only Tai Ho and Yam Koo speak to the pirates in the S1 scenes, and they don’t even appear in this story. The pirates can be recruited via a quest like “pirates at the port” and after defeating them in a battle they’ll join (as a deal for not being delivered to the authorities).

Kanak
Class: Fighter; Weapon: Sickle&Chain (special type); Element: Wind
Joins and leaves along with Anji.

Leonardo
Class: Fighter; Weapon: Axe; Element: Fire
Joins and leaves along with Anji.

Lester
Class: Support (heal); Element: Wind
He’s the master cook from Kirov, and he shouldn’t be a problem. Can be recruited after a quest guild errand.

Leon
Class: Support (strength/magic boost); Element: Fire
I can’t remember his dialogue in S1. I remember him and Mathiu talking about Odessa, and I hope he didn’t say something like “I haven’t seen her in 10 years”. Since no one else except Tir and Mathiu were talking to him in the S1 scenes iirc, it is possible that he met some characters (who didn’t have dialogue with him in S1) before. It would be cool if the great Leon Silverberg helped his little niece for a couple of weeks or months in 453.

Blackman
Class: Fighter; Weapon: Hoe (axe type); Element: Earth
Nothing too complicated about this guy. He lives in Kalekka and can be recruited through a guild quest like finding some seeds for him.

Pesmerga
Class: Fighter; Weapon: Gr. Sword; Element: Lightning
There are no huge war battles in this story, so there’s no reason why Yuber should show up, even though he’s an ally of Windy. Should Pesmerga show up without Yuber? At least, Yuber appeared alone in S3, so it could be possible.

Warren
Class: Fighter; Weapon: Spear; Element: Fire
I checked the script: there is nothing which proves that he didn’t knew Viktor before (or other characters of this story). On the contrary, this could explain why Viktor headed north and reappeared together with Warren, he tried to recruit Warren into the Liberation Army. We know that his mansion is in Senan, so I would place it north or northeast of Moravia and close to the river. That makes sense, because it is said that travelers are always welcome in his home (something like this), and I guess they would rather travel along a river than through meager lands.

Taggart
Class: Support (dexterity/agility boost); Element: Fire
When he appears in S1, he is under strict orders to not talk to anybody except Tir, so we can’t expect that he would have talked to people he recognizes, which is good. Joins and leaves along with Warren.

Roy
Class: Fighter; Weapon: Nunchaku (special type); Element: Wind
Together with his companions he has become a traveling actor. They own a theater on wheels (a carriage) and roam the northern continent. Of course, they are among the few people to recognize Georg. They should have masks (their faces painted) because of their profession (and for fun).

Faylon
Class: Fighter; Weapon: Knuckle (hammer type); Element: Earth
Joins and leaves along with Roy.

Faylen
Class: Battle Mage; Weapon: Boomerang (darts type); Element: Lightning
Joins and leaves along with Roy.

Josephine
Class: Fighter; Weapon: Umbrella? (special type); Element: Fire
Vincent was banned because of S1 dialogue which indicates that he didn’t meet Flik before. Thus Simone would be a lone Narcissist, but they are never alone in a Suikoden game. I think there’s no problem in making Josephine replace Vincent, as she was in search for a more sophisticated culture, and SME offers a lot, although actually not exactly the Dana region.

Zamza
Class: Battle Mage; Weapon: Fists; Element: Fire
Much younger, but already as arrogant as we know him. I don’t know yet how to have him join, but I think there’s not much to worry about (perhaps only Rikimaru, who could possibly be in the party in S2 when you meet Zamza). After the events, he became sick of the Dana region and left.

Gantetsu
Class: Mage; Weapon: Staff; Element: Water
Excommunicated from Qlon, he currently roams the northern parts of the empire. I think a duel should make him join the hero’s group. After the events, he’ll continue his journey, as well as the training of his mind and body.

Anita
Class: Fighter; Weapon: Sword; Element: Wind
Her rival joined the empire, so it should be easy to make her join the opposition, even though Valeria doesn’t appear in this story. After the events, she continues her travel to prepare for a future duel.

Oulan
Class: Fighter; Weapon: Fists; Element: Fire
Gameplay-wise she’s the replacement of Ronnie Bell, so the unique Hate Rune is replaced by the unique Angry Dragon Rune. Wouldn’t it be interesting to see a 19 year old Oulan?

Shin
Class: Fighter; Weapon: Gr. Sword; Element: Wind
A wandering swordsman from the Southlands, who joins the hero’s group to test his skills. After this story, he continues his travel northwards, and during his stay at Greenhill, he was hired by Alec Wisemail as a bodyguard for his daughter Teresa.

Rikimaru
Class: Fighter; Weapon: Gr. Sword; Element: Water
I’m not sure how to broach the issue of his revenge. Maybe I’d just let him mention to be on a revenge trip, but again primarily make him the glutton we know. After these events, well, I don’t know, it’s a little too early to go north imo. Maybe just let him be on a food cram tour and avoid the revenge topic completely, because the tragic incident hasn’t happened yet.

Badeaux
Class: Fighter; Weapon: Whip (special type); Element: Water
If you help him save an animal or monster, he’ll join. He bears a unique Listening Rune, which is slightly similar to Cornelio’s Rune from S5. The first spell can inflict some damage or it can be used to recruit certain beasts. There are 5 beasts (instead of mercenaries) that can be recruited, one for each element. The second spell puts the berserk status on him and the beasts (like his Howling Rune in S2). After these events, he disappears.

Simone
Class: Fighter; Weapon: Darts; Element: Wind
Being a SME aristocrat, he’s actually not hostile to the empire, but we could somehow “force” him to join.

Mondo
Class: Fighter; Weapon: Claws; Element: Earth
He’s ordered by Hanzo to bring back the hero and the other 2 ninja. He finally finds them battling at the gates of the Banner Mines, and he joins them for these final battles. However, in the end he returns to Rokkaku without them, but hands a letter written by Yumiko over to Hanzo.

Killey
Class: Fighter; Weapon: Daggers (claws type); Element: Fire
Can be found in an optional dungeon. He would join if you help him advance deeper into the dungeon. Like Lorelai, he has the Treasure Hunt Skill. After these events, annoyed by Lorelai, he tells her about unexplored Sindar ruins in the Kouan region. It was a lie, but it made him get rid of Lorelai for 6 years to come.

Long Chan Chan
Class: Fighter; Weapon: Fists; Element: Lightning
A wandering martial artist from the south in search for a place (and money) to open a school. He can be recruited by doing a certain guild quest. Sometime after the events, it is said that he finally got his first student, although still not having a permanent location to teach.

Georg
Class: Fighter; Weapon: Sword; Element: Earth
His role would be a little problematic because of his fame throughout the empire. He could use a pseudonym for himself to not be recognized, and have only few people (like Humphrey) recognize him. I’d prefer making him an optional character, because he shouldn’t be too conspicuous while being in disguise.

Elza
Class: Fighter; Weapon: Gun (bow type); Element: Lightning
Agrees to join the group to hide or being protected from her pursuer. The problem is that I don’t know which year this pursuit started; we’re talking about 3 years before S1, and Clive was 19. If it’s possible, then however, Clive shouldn’t appear, just like Elza didn’t appear in S1. Afterwards she continues to run away, of course.

Monster 1
Class: Fighter; Weapon: none (stat-based); Element: Water
Maybe a turtle? Can only be recruited by Badeaux.
Monster 2
Class: Fighter; Weapon: none (stat-based); Element: Fire
Lizard or salamander? Can only be recruited by Badeaux.

Monster 3
Class: Fighter; Weapon: none (stat-based); Element: Wind
Falcon? Can only be recruited by Badeaux.

Monster 4
Class: Fighter; Weapon: none (stat-based); Element: Earth
Bear? Can only be recruited by Badeaux.

Monster 5
Class: Fighter; Weapon: none (stat-based); Element: Lightning
An electric whatever. Can only be recruited by Badeaux.

Notes
- About Ted: I planned to have at least 1 True Rune bearer appear. As for S1 dialogue, only Varkas and Sydonia are a problem, but the even bigger problem is that the Souleater must be kept secret until S1. Do we need a Ted without using the Souleater? I’d say no.
- I need one more mage. Any idea?
- Characters I had to reject due to S1 dialogue: Ronnie Bell, Ledon, Vincent and Kage.
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Re: Suikoden 1 Tactics Prequel - Outline

Postby BrucePrintscreen » Tue Sep 23, 2014 8:01 am

Sanchez should be a good guy during your whole game, if he turns out to be a spy it is too obvious. Besides, I think I read somewhere that he was initially sincere about joining the rebellion but turned back to his former affiliation later. So you can reasonably assume that your entire game happens before Sanchez changes side.

Your whole premise is interesting, I'll be commenting further when I have time :D

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Re: Suikoden 1 Tactics Prequel - Outline

Postby sticky-runes » Tue Sep 23, 2014 9:07 am

I don't think Roy is a good idea. Remember he can be killed as part of the main storyline in S5, which is a better outcome for that game anyway, as he fulfills his duty to fool the enemy into thinking they've defeated the Prince, so I really think people should stop romanticizing the idea of him becoming a traveling performer.

As for the monsters...

Water: Snake (like Byakuren) very weak on land, but get it on water and it has great mobility and tougher defenses. Can inflict 'poison' or 'freeze' status.
Fire: Salamander, a flying unit with great mobility and immunity to fire damage.
Earth: Boar. Has a dash attack that lets it charge through enemies in a straight line and it stops when it reaches an obstacle (so be careful about it ending up surrounded by enemies) has a lot of HP and good defense, but not very good at climbing to higher ground.
Wind: Roc or Simurgh. Flying unit. Can inflict 'blind' or 'sleep' status
Lightning: Cockatrice (they used lightning attacks in S2) another flying unit. Can inflict 'petrify' status.

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Re: Suikoden 1 Tactics Prequel - Outline

Postby Wolkendrache » Wed Sep 24, 2014 5:46 am

Main question: are there incompatibilities or errors regarding the Suikoden history?
Other acute question...
- Stallion or Cathari? Too few female, so I'd say Cathari. I don't know much about the Howling Voice Guild, would there be a problem if she'd meet Elza? It's possible that she doesn't know what's going on, because (let's assume) she hasn't been back there for a long time.
- Any idea for a plain wind mage (staff user)? Any idea for a bow user? (a wind battle mage using a bow would be ok, but there already is Odessa)
- When exactly do ninja get to know the identity of their parents? And do they know about their social status as a child? If not, when do they learn about it?
- Your ideas on the evil threat within the Banner Mines?
sticky-runes wrote:And will the combat system be the same as the original Tactics, with elemental terrain effects, or will it be all new? Will runes work the same way, i.e. magic sword runes for fighters and spell runes for staff users only, or can any character use elemental runes?

The combat system would be similar. Elemental terrain is a nice idea but it looked horrible; I don't care much for graphics, but this should be improved. Haven't thought too deep into gameplay yet, but here are some ideas (sorry, I forgot to post it last time):
- cancel effect as skill or rune (similar to Grandia 2)
- great sword users improved
- earth rune improved
- enemies that are only vulnerable to certain weapon types or elements, like in Baldur’s Gate
- new weapon type: hammers; staffs and other special weapons (e.g. nunchaku) count as blunt weapons too, but are separate categories regarding weapon progression
- more difficult battles, but no killable characters, because the majority has to return for the “sequels”
- treasure hunt: no extra support character; everyone can pick up hidden stuff, but you need characters with the treasure hunt skill to detect them
- battle maps are more complex, height level gets more relevance (like in Vandal Hearts 2)
- individual skill maxima (similar to S5)
- new class: battle mages; can be used as mages as well as fighters; can attach spell runes, no magic sword runes; can’t raise the element magic skill as much as plain mages
BrucePrintscreen wrote:Sanchez should be a good guy during your whole game, if he turns out to be a spy it is too obvious.

That's exactly what I was trying to say. See, that's a hint that I should never write a novel in english :wink:
sticky-runes wrote:I don't think Roy is a good idea. Remember he can be killed as part of the main storyline in S5, which is a better outcome for that game anyway, as he fulfills his duty to fool the enemy into thinking they've defeated the Prince, so I really think people should stop romanticizing the idea of him becoming a traveling performer.

As for the monsters...

I'm not a Roy fan either, and I agree that the tragic ending is better story-wise. Imagine how tragic Pahn's death would have been, if there where video sequences and voice actors in S1. And yet, Konami leaves it to the player to decide (in the Pahn case it was taken care of by the option to load data). Roy & Co would just be optional characters, so if you stumble on them just tell them "get lost, you're all dead in my opinion". :wink:
I like your ideas on the monsters. Their skills sound a little like they could end up overpowered, but this is just matter of stat-balancing. They should be more useful than the monsters from the other games (why do they always suck?), but also not be overpowered.
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Re: Suikoden 1 Tactics Prequel - Outline

Postby sticky-runes » Wed Sep 24, 2014 6:25 am

- Stallion or Cathari?


Cathari would be a better choice IMO, although I don't know much about the howling voice guild either as i never finished the Elza quest or played the Gaiden games. I also don't know if Stallion would be away from the elf village during that time, I know he's locked up for some reason when we first meet him in S1, but doesn't he criticize Kirkis for running away?

By the way, aren't guns classed as projectiles in Suikoden? I believe Clive and Cathari were candidates for the kite rune rather than the great hawk rune. And clairvoyance would probably be suitable for Cathari's sniping skills.


- Any idea for a plain wind mage (staff user)? Any idea for a bow user?


How about some kobold characters? We encounter enemy archer and mage kobolds in S1, so maybe some "good" versions of those guys.

- Your ideas on the evil threat within the Banner Mines?


This reminds me a lot of the mining prison in Vandal Hearts 2. Of course, a mine full of monsters is a given in any RPG or fantasy story, I just pointed that out because of the it being a tactical RPG.

Perhaps they delve into some buried Sindar ruins and awake some sort of guardian? Maybe it's an apprentice of Windy who is using the mines for magical experiments? Maybe it's a testing site for the black runes? Perhaps they are being forced to dig up some sort of magic substance to help Windy? (a bit of the Mistborn novels creeping in there)

The combat system would be similar. Elemental terrain is a nice idea but it looked horrible; I don't care much for graphics, but this should be improved.


This game seems to revolve heavily around ninjas and stealth. Perhaps line of sight could be a factor - maybe the Rokaku guys have a unique ability that lets them stay undetected by enemies until they strike?

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Re: Suikoden 1 Tactics Prequel - Outline

Postby Wolkendrache » Thu Sep 25, 2014 6:03 am

sticky-runes wrote:Cathari would be a better choice IMO, although I don't know much about the howling voice guild either as i never finished the Elza quest or played the Gaiden games. I also don't know if Stallion would be away from the elf village during that time, I know he's locked up for some reason when we first meet him in S1, but doesn't he criticize Kirkis for running away?

The events concerning Kirkis and Stallion would happen only 2-3 years after this story, but still, I'd prefer Cathari as well. What's worrying me more is the question, in which year Elza left the guild. If it was after 453, then goodbye Elza.
I've made a female elven battle mage with a bow as the missing character. If Elza has to be kicked out, then Cathari could be replaced by Stallion, so a howling voice unite is replaced with an elven unite.
sticky-runes wrote:Perhaps they delve into some buried Sindar ruins and awake some sort of guardian? Maybe it's an apprentice of Windy who is using the mines for magical experiments? Maybe it's a testing site for the black runes? Perhaps they are being forced to dig up some sort of magic substance to help Windy? (a bit of the Mistborn novels creeping in there)

I wouldn't link the Banner Mines to Sindar Culture (this could be the optional dungeon), but I love the idea of fighting an apprentice or subordinate mage of Windy. The fight against the chief warden is the second-to-last battle, the last one is against some powerful monster prototypes (an apprentice of Windy can be added here).
sticky-runes wrote:This game seems to revolve heavily around ninjas and stealth. Perhaps line of sight could be a factor - maybe the Rokaku guys have a unique ability that lets them stay undetected by enemies until they strike?

I guess you're familiar with Baldur's Gate. I don't think line of sight is necessary, and "fog of war" doesn't really look beautiful. Stealth/Backstab along with Traps are good ideas, but very difficult to balance out. If it doesn't work it's crap or suicide, if it works it's gamebreaking.

As for unites (list follows soon), like in the main games, they don’t need to be learned, because it doesn’t make sense for most of them. I’d also repeal the relationship thing, but instead have more rest scenes to make up for the loss of dialogue. Conversation during battles is out of place, battles are for gameplay imo.
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Re: Suikoden 1 Tactics Prequel - Outline

Postby sticky-runes » Thu Sep 25, 2014 8:00 am

As for unites (list follows soon), like in the main games, they don’t need to be learned, because it doesn’t make sense for most of them. I’d also repeal the relationship thing, but instead have more rest scenes to make up for the loss of dialogue. Conversation during battles is out of place, battles are for gameplay imo.


BAD IDEA!!!!

In-battle conversations are one of the best things about Suikoden tactics! I don't really care that it's not sensible to start chatting during a fight, it adds humor, and we do a lot of standing around during turn based combat when enemies are out of range any way. It's also nice to be given control over the conversation i.e. it's me telling Akagi to have a word with Mizuki, instead of a campfire scene where we don't have any control we're just watching. Plus the in-battle dialogues are what increase goodwill between characters so that their co-op attacks become more powerful and stuff, so I think it works very well for Suikoden which has always focused on character relationships having an impact on how combat plays out.

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Re: Suikoden 1 Tactics Prequel - Outline

Postby Wolkendrache » Thu Sep 25, 2014 11:13 am

I guess it's a matter of preference. I don't like battles being interrupted by dialogues, but I don't wanna be a killjoy, so I would look for more feedback to make a decision of course. I wouldn't have problems with making compromises on in-battle dialogues and relationship levels, but I'd be more insistent on the idea that unites don't need to be learned. Wasn't it strange that Kyril and Co needed so long to learn the unite attack, and that Mizuki and Akaghi waited for Kyril to learn theirs? Moreover, who needs a conversation like "I'm ready, and you?", "Me too, let's go!"?

Speaking of unite attacks, here's the list...

2-person Unites
Allure Attack: Jeane, Trishna
Bandit Attack: Varkas, Sydonia
Brother & Sister Attack: Gohu, Griselde
Colleagues Attack: Azra, Risha
Crazy Attack: Viki, Yalda
Deadly Sword Attack: Georg, Shin
Double Leader Attack: Morio, Odessa
Explorer Attack: Killey, Lorelai
Heroine Attack: Anita, Iris
Lone Fighter Attack: Viktor, Flik
Narcissist Attack: Josephine, Simone
Noble Attack: Maximillian, Warren
Overbearing Attack: Gantetsu, Zamza
Poor Man’s Attack: Rikimaru, Blackman
Sagacious Attack: Eldur, Hellion
Sustained Fire Attack: Cathari, Elza
Tremble Attack: Humphrey, Mose

3-person Unites
Arrow Volley: Odessa, Lorelai, Trishna
Bandit +1 Attack: Kessler, Varkas, Sydonia
Blade Storm: Kakuji, Sydonia, Faylen, Simone (any 3)
Blunt Force Attack: Mose, Gohu, Griselde, Faylon (any 3)
Giant Sword Attack: Viktor, Humphrey, Shin, Rikimaru (any 3)
Hatchet Attack: Kessler, Varkas, Leonardo, Blackman (any 3)
Ninja Attack: Morio, Yumiko, Kakuji
Pirate Attack: Anji, Kanak, Leonardo
Punch Apocalypse: Eikei, Oulan, Long Chan Chan
Spear Attack: Maximillian, Anji, Warren, Risha (any 3)
Stage Actors Attack: Roy, Faylen, Faylon
Weird Weapon Attack: Kanak, Roy, Josephine, Badeaux (any 3)

4-person Unites
Anti-Imperial Attack: Odessa, Humphrey, Viktor, Flik
Ninja +1 Attack: Mondo, Morio, Yumiko, Kakuji
Sorcerer Attack: Eldur, Gantetsu, Hellion, Jeane, Viki (any 4)
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Re: Suikoden 1 Tactics Prequel - Outline

Postby sticky-runes » Thu Sep 25, 2014 12:28 pm

I probably wouldn't be chatting to friends while I'm in the middle of a fight, but then, I probably wouldn't be looking for treasure in the middle of a fight either, and I probably wouldn't be trying to keep the last standing enemy alive while somebody looks for a rare item hidden in the corner of the room, but Suikoden Tactics and vandal Hearts have us doing that any way. :wink:

Now that I mention that, it can be kind of annoying trying to drag the battle out while collecting treasure items. Perhaps there could be a way around that? Like, after killing the last enemy or the boss, we get the option to end the battle and leave the map when we want (so we can collect items at our own leisure), or something like that.

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Re: Suikoden 1 Tactics Prequel - Outline

Postby patapi » Fri Sep 26, 2014 10:25 am

Removing those optional in-battle dialogues? Might as well opt for no-name recruits like the oh-so-perfect Final Fantasy Tactics then.

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Re: Suikoden 1 Tactics Prequel - Outline

Postby Wolkendrache » Fri Sep 26, 2014 1:24 pm

Optional? You mean the dialogues which raise relation points? I'd rather say "optional", because these are the only way to learn unites and raise relationship.
Of course there'll be in-battle dialogues, like strategic instructions, and whenever reinforcements arrive (friend or foe), or someone retreats etc. As for the gossip, I never said I would abandon it, but instead place it outside battles (and even have more gossip-conversation overall than Rhapsodia, plus somehow create a real optional choice for it), and this was only the original suggestion (in case you haven't read the whole thread), afterwards I was only talking about the dumb learn-unite-dialogues.
As for the point about FFT, I could have misunderstood it (cause I never played that game), but it sounds like an unjustified exaggeration. The above mentioned method would have at least the same level of characterization as Rhapsodia. I really don't get the point in comparing missing optional in-battle gossip with no-name recruits. Most SRPGs I've played didn't have optional in-game gossip, and yet had well elaborated characters (Vandal Hearts, Kartia etc.).
Whatever, please let's not get stuck in this one point. :)
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Re: Suikoden 1 Tactics Prequel - Outline

Postby sticky-runes » Fri Sep 26, 2014 1:44 pm

But characters in Vandal Hearts 1 do chat to each other during battle at certain points in the game :mrgreen:
It just works better in Suikoden Tactics because there is a bit of leveling up involved, and relationships actually do play a part in Suikoden combat because of how characters protect each other and go berserk when somebody is defeated etc.

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Re: Suikoden 1 Tactics Prequel - Outline

Postby Wolkendrache » Wed Oct 01, 2014 4:30 am

Chapter Summaries

Prologue: Counsel at the Hamlet

- The game starts with a ninja training battle in Rokkaku, containing the 3 starting characters Morio, Yumiko and Kakuji, with some dialogue before the start to indicate they are good friends and that it’s just a training fight.
- Afterwards Hanzo orders all ninja into the meeting dojo to take counsel. He explains the SME has seemingly increased its border guards by which Rokkaku is threatened, so he sends the above 3 ninja to the Banner Mines to gather information which reveals the reasons behind all this. The older and stronger ninja would be needed to protect the hamlet in case of an attack, that’s why he sends off 3 of the younger ninja on this spy mission. Hanzo tells them to take care and return complete and safe. The 3 friends prepare and leave.

Chapter 1: Strange Beasts

- While walking through the forest, they’re chatting (to introduce them).
- Suddenly they are attacked by forest animals.
- After the battle, they wonder why these animals were so aggressive and looked so ugly, some of them having more than 2 eyes, bigger but irregular teeth, and looking asymmetrical in general (these beasts are early experiment failures at the Banner Mines, but this is not revealed yet). Kakuji decides to take a huge horn from one of the beasts as a trophy. The others try to dissuade him, but he wouldn’t listen. The ninja continue their trip southwards.

Chapter 2: Flight of the Spies

- The ninja climb the outer fortification walls. Beneath them, the chief warden and an imperial sorcerer are talking about an outrageous project within the mines. Suddenly, Kakuji’s battle trophy slips out of his suit, and they get spotted. They immediately run, but get pursued into western direction. After some time, they run into a guard post.
- In this battle, they have to reach the opposite side rather than killing everything.
- They can overcome this obstacle just in time and continue their escape to the edge of the wild Dunan river where they are cornered by a far superior number of imperials. They are reduced to jump into the quickwater.

Chapter 3: The Vagabond

- Morio awakes in a traveler’s tent, and his friends are nowhere to be seen. A tall man is sitting at the campfire, introduces himself as Viktor and tells him how he saved him and that he hasn’t seen his friends. Realizing he drifted to the other side of the river (Senan), Morio plans to cross it to get back to the eastern side (Dana). Viktor tells him the currents are too strong in this part, and he can’t go north because of the huge wall there, so he is forced to go south for a while before crossing the river.
- When Morio is about to set off, they are being attacked by desert bandits. After some turns, Gohu and Griselde show up and support them.
- After the battle, everyone introduces oneself, and when they talk about Morio’s dilemma, Gohu and Griselde suggest coming along to their village, which is located on the banks of a feed stream of the Dunan river south of where they are at the moment, and take a boat from there. Having just realized that his sword skills got a bit rusty, Viktor decides to accompany Morio to Dana.

Chapter 4: Getting back on track

- They arrive at the fishing village; some conversation reveals more about the background of Gohu and Griselde. They ask a fisherman to take them downstream and to a river bank northwest of Kirov. When they lead Morio and Viktor to the boat, a gust of wind blows Morio’s face cover aside, and they can spot Morio’s scar. They immediately show them the statue of their guardian deity in the center of the village, which has received some damage on the right side over time. When others tell them it’s just coincidence, they wouldn’t listen and see all this as an omen to help Morio (their superstitiousness is caused by growing up without parents). Finally they all enter the boat and depart.
- Shortly before reaching the Dunan river, they are attacked by Senan patrolmen on boats. These foes would always get reinforcements, but after a certain amount of turns, a messenger tells their captain, that their camp is set ablaze by unknown persons, so they retreat at once.
- Morio’s party continues to the east side river bank and decides to walk to Kirov to take the road northwards from there.
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