Would you like to co-write Suikoden 6? (Non-RPGmaker game)

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Pyriel
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Re: Would you like to co-write Suikoden 6? (Non-RPGmaker gam

Postby Pyriel » Sun Feb 23, 2014 8:35 pm

Nobody's been all that critical of you, really. I mean look at 727's thread for an example of harsh. He's churning out pure-strain crap, and he thinks it's gold. Mostly this thread is just people pointing out all the landmines ahead. In spite of my doubts about the project, I wish you all the success in the world.

If you were an established company, and had licensed or acquired rights from Konami, this place would be buzzing. Some people would probably throw actual parties, and send you their first-born sons. If your first post contained a video of a working engine, people would have something to praise, but the announcement of the millionth fan-made game with nothing to show yet is just not something people can get excited about.

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Re: Would you like to co-write Suikoden 6? (Non-RPGmaker gam

Postby Yensoo » Sun Feb 23, 2014 8:56 pm

Ok well I'll be back on a couple weeks with some art and hopefully some engine screen shots or videos. Until then, sorry for taking the criticism so bad. It's just already hard enough keeping a team together without being reminded of all the pitfalls (that we're all always thinking of, believe me, we know how many of these projects fall apart.)

I guess I was hoping for some encouragement like I saw on some of the older fan game posts on here. Like jack-of-all-trades project and stuff. Maybe people are just jaded now that they've been let down so much. I hope we wont be the same.
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Re: Would you like to co-write Suikoden 6? (Non-RPGmaker gam

Postby Antimatzist » Mon Feb 24, 2014 1:44 am

I guess I was hoping for some encouragement like I saw on some of the older fan game posts on here. Like jack-of-all-trades project and stuff. Maybe people are just jaded now that they've been let down so much. I hope we wont be the same.

The difference in your two projects being that Jack of all Trades wanted to make a RPG maker game that told a story "we already know", only so we can play it with some creative liberties etc.
You say you want to put a finale on the series. And you can't see why people might be a bit more critical twoards your project? Also, rereading through al posts, nobody was negative to your project, only pointing out the legal difficulties. We cannot be negative to your game because we know nothing about it. Would be great to see some actual things from the game and I can tell you we are not negative per se. SOmeone created a topic here where he replicates the Suikoden II engine in RPGmaker and I am amazed. So I hope that you can draw some enthusiasm out of us. :)

Do you have links to the Suikoden fan games? I'm at least interested to take a look at them, as I really don't know of any that was ever really completed.

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Re: Would you like to co-write Suikoden 6? (Non-RPGmaker gam

Postby Yensoo » Mon Feb 24, 2014 1:59 am

I honestly thought people would be more excited. I know I was. I was the artist of Jack's game and I find the idea of making a finale way more exciting. It's like a happy medium between a fan game and an original game. I also thought people would be more excited to learn that it wasn't going to just be another RPG maker game. I mean the idea went over well on /r/suikoden and the suikoden revival movement page. So I expected the same or similar here.

Basically I just didn't expect anyone to be all that critical without even knowing anything about the project yet, I was just seeing if anyone wanted to help, cause I figured there might be people like me that loved the idea. Clearly this isn't the site for that, but that's fine cause we got 4 potential writers off of /r/suikoden and the SRM page. Not counting me and the lead writer (Who is Jack btw)

But like I said, if you don't wanna help, that's fine, but I'd prefer positive comments or none at all, no one is being helped by negativity. You don't have to help or play the game or anything. Just was hoping at least someone would be like "oh hey that's neat, I always wanted to play a 6, maybe yours will fill that role in some small way."

I mean c'mon, you guys know nothing about this project.

(as far as links to other games I don't have em and my team is asleep, but I believe he made the Suiko online games.)
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Re: Would you like to co-write Suikoden 6? (Non-RPGmaker gam

Postby Antimatzist » Mon Feb 24, 2014 2:26 am

When did you post your idea to the SRM wall? I must have missed that.

And again, no one was negative towards you or your game, actually, it showed a bit that enough people cared to essentially write "Be careful if you want to make a game that's called Suikoden VI."

We don't know your game, because we cannot know anything about it, and saying you only want to hear positive things will not help this project (of course, trolling and unconstructive criticism won't help either, but I haven't seen this here).

I guess it makes little sense to "argue" further, I'm looking forward to the first results you will hopefully show us soon and that's it.

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Re: Would you like to co-write Suikoden 6? (Non-RPGmaker gam

Postby Yensoo » Mon Feb 24, 2014 2:29 am

I'm sorry I don't mean to get angry, but I already knew the pitfalls of the project. I wasn't looking for critique or anything, I just wanted to see if some people would want to work on the game. I didn't think it was a big deal or anything. But all I got was negative (Even if they weren't saying my project was going to fail) pointing out all the things that can go wrong surely isn't positive anyway.

Again I'm sorry I got worked up, and I'm sorry I ever mentioned it here, cause this thread has helped me none and only caused me more stress over the project. Which clearly wasn't the intent of the original post.

I don't think you guys are bad guys or anything, I was just hoping for more and was kinda crushed by the response here.

But yeah, sorry if I was being negative, I was just taken aback by the non-positive response I got on here, a forum dedicated to stuff like this project.

Antimatzist wrote:I couldn't care less about fanfiction (and a game is fanfiction)

I mean really? Do you know what forum you're in? Stuff like that just doesn't help no matter how well meaning...
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Re: Would you like to co-write Suikoden 6? (Non-RPGmaker gam

Postby Antimatzist » Mon Feb 24, 2014 5:14 am

I mean really? Do you know what forum you're in? Stuff like that just doesn't help no matter how well meaning...

Even if I am not interested in reading fanfiction/playing fan games, I can still give my opinion on your project (when there's something to have an opinion about) and hopefully improve it with my Suiknowledge (even though it's only pretty average).

I just wanted to see if some people would want to work on the game.

I guess we all know that but you have to be realistic, this board is near death with only a couple of posts a week and most of them are gameplay or story related. So your chances for finding a creative mind here were near-zero from the beginning. Also, from my experience with fan-games and projects, the more people are involved the more problems will evolve, leading to an abandoned project, so I'd say it would be better if your lead writer writes most of it and the rest of the people will only write smaller stuff/dialogue. But that's just how I would approach a project like this.

pointing out all the things that can go wrong surely isn't positive anyway.

Actually, it is. Imagine you are an adventurer and want to go to the Temple of Death and Doom and you will be killed by a Dragon. Do you want to hear "Yeah, greta idea, great treasures await!" or "Don't go there, you will be killed."? I guess everyone wants to hear the first one, but the second one might be the more useful advice. Especially (and I want to stretch this again) when no one here was negative and only saying that such an ambitious project might run into legal troubles. From my pov that's not negative, but rather caring.

And this is not a personal attack, but a lot of projects like this are immune to criticism, pointing out that they want to hear positive things, not the negative things, but that way a project will never improve and the same mistakes will happen over and over again. Of course, you are the one making the game and it must please you, but what's the point in doing a game that most of the (rather small) fandom doesn't like? I'm not saying that you should listen to every piece of criticism, but at least consider if this criticism is justified or not. Then again, we haven't criticized anything in this thread yet and still you say we're wrong, so... (I'm not implying that you are totally resistant to criticism or something, just that it's tedious to discuss that you might run into legal problems which might be a real threat for so long. Especially when it comes to the game's aesthetics, it's a matter of opinion and if you like your game the way it is, it is ok, but you cannot say that facts are wrong.)

So for a positive response, don't "market" your game as Suikoden VI, but maybe as Suikoden - Harmonian Tales or something. Or leave the Suikoden out of your title completely.

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Re: Would you like to co-write Suikoden 6? (Non-RPGmaker gam

Postby Pyriel » Mon Feb 24, 2014 9:18 am

Well, having people constantly throw the risks at you can be a negative thing, if you're already worried about them, and the reminders just start to beat you down. We responded that way because half the people who start something like this don't think about much of anything. They just assume making a game isn't all that hard, and if you give them like a month, they can get all their sweet ideas into a game.

I didn't see much response at all on the SRM Facebook page, but maybe it was all in private messages. On the reddit, you were looking for programmers, and rejected offers for help with the writing...seems a little strange. It also says you're planning to use RPG Maker VX and looking for people who know Python, so is rolling your own engine from scratch a recent change? And did Enterbrain change scripting engines for VX? I could swear RPG Maker scripting was customized Ruby.

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Re: Would you like to co-write Suikoden 6? (Non-RPGmaker gam

Postby Yensoo » Mon Feb 24, 2014 1:29 pm

Yeah that post about wanting a programmer was like the first of the project. But then my friend said he would program a new engine for us. Since then the writer said he'd like some help so I made the post here and on the SRM page as well as a new one on /r/suikoden.

And I don't think that the whole Suikoden community will dislike the idea of us making Suikoden 6, so far you guys are the only ones that seem to think it's a bad idea. And again like I said, you don't have to play it. And again, I didn't ask for critique. I was only asking if anyone wanted to help. I know you were trying to be helpful with the legal stuff, and that's fine. But it wasn't the point of this thread at all.

I had a small team, we had a plan, we were going through with it, and I just asked if anyone wanted to help, simple as that. If I started changing the entire project every time someone said they don't like the idea (Especially before they know anything about the story) I would be sure to never finish the project. So we're gnna do it like we planned, and some people will like it and some people wont. But again that's not the point here. I was just checking if someone wanted to help. A simple no thanks would've been fine.

I am sincerely sorry for overreacting here. It just surprised me that this thread fell apart like this instead of doing anything remotely like what I hoped for.
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Re: Would you like to co-write Suikoden 6? (Non-RPGmaker gam

Postby BrucePrintscreen » Tue Feb 25, 2014 3:43 am

It's not necessarily that people here wouldn't like a new Suikoden game. I'm sure everyone here would love to play a new Suikoden game of any kind.

The thing is, sadly, we see plenty of people trying to make their own game and never succeeding. As someone else mentioned earlier, we still haven't seen a completed Suikoden fan-game. But this section of the forum is full of aborted attempts, or at best work-in-progress which looks promising but hasn't been completed in many years.

In a way, you can't blame people here for having a doubtful reaction when you open your screenwriting room to anyone wanting to join. It's a Catch-22 situation of sorts: if you really were able to make a Suikoden game, you wouldn't need our help. You would have your own programmers and screenwriters at hand, whom you selected somewhat harshly, and who are ready to devote a lot of time and efforts under your supervision. I doubt a fan forum is the best way to recruit them.

See it this way: if I want to make my own Pink Floyd cover band, I'm not going to post an add on a fan website, I'll look for competent musicians and stage techs where they are.

I think the somewhat harsh reaction you got here is the best help you can find, because there will be enough people around who taps you in the back and offers no criticism. In a way, it's a good thing that this forum didn't offer you two dozen answers in the like of "ZOMG yayyy I want to writte ur sukioden game i hav da story its about pesmerga and yuber we learn in fact they were vampirez all the time and pesmerga falls in love with sierra and they kill all da stupid kobolds"...

I wish you good luck in your project but it will be no bed of roses, ever.

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Re: Would you like to co-write Suikoden 6? (Non-RPGmaker gam

Postby Yensoo » Tue Feb 25, 2014 1:45 pm

I know it's not going to be easy, and I already did have a dedicated team before I came here. My writer was just wanting a think tank to bounce ideas off of, and I figured someone knowledgeable about Suikoden would be of more use than a random writer that is just good at writing. And they were selected somewhat harshly, we've already had to let some people go that didn't bring enough to the table even though they were willing.

I was just hoping to make this game with the help of this thread and this community instead of in spite of them. I'm not sure how you can say this is the best response I could get here considering I learned nothing I didn't know already and got not even one offer of help. But it's fine, we have the help we needed from other sites. I'll just avoid this community until the game is done or something, because I'm not going to get any helpful feedback here and you guys aren't going to see what you want to see apparently.
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Re: Would you like to co-write Suikoden 6? (Non-RPGmaker gam

Postby Antimatzist » Tue Feb 25, 2014 2:44 pm

I'll just avoid this community until the game is done or something, because I'm not going to get any helpful feedback here and you guys aren't going to see what you want to see apparently.

You'll get great feedback from here if you have something that needs feedback. You stated several times already that you didn't expected feedback (and actually, didn't get any, just some comments on projects in general). When you have a demo or something you'll get plenty of feedback.

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Re: Would you like to co-write Suikoden 6? (Non-RPGmaker gam

Postby Yensoo » Tue Feb 25, 2014 2:48 pm

Ok I'll be back in a few weeks or something if the project is still going and see what you guys think. Until then, thanks for the concern and everything.
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Re: Would you like to co-write Suikoden 6? (Non-RPGmaker gam

Postby Pyriel » Tue Feb 25, 2014 3:05 pm

If you're not looking for a "writer" to actually provide ideas or content, but as someone to help you with fitting your ideas into the lore/canon, you could possibly find somebody here willing to assist with that. That's more of a consultant role than something with ongoing or onerous responsibilities. The handful of people who know the stories inside and out, and are aware of the non-game, but nevertheless canon elements that are mainly available in Japan or to Japanese-speaking people are infrequent visitors to the forum, though.

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Re: Would you like to co-write Suikoden 6? (Non-RPGmaker gam

Postby Suikoden2.5 » Tue Apr 08, 2014 4:41 pm

The problem is too many people want to quit before they try. I support this. If you aren't going to do whatever it takes to show them that there's still a demand, then you really have no right to complain about the death of the series. The only company that has ever been known to issue cease and desist letters are Square-Enix, and the fan-games released anyway; aside from Chrono Break.
I'm creating a high quality Suikoden 2 sequel with over 10,000 fans already. Join the Stars of Destiny and rewrite fate. Suikoden doesn't die until we let it. LIKE to follow release dates.

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