Would you like to co-write Suikoden 6? (Non-RPGmaker game)

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Yensoo
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Would you like to co-write Suikoden 6? (Non-RPGmaker game)

Postby Yensoo » Thu Feb 20, 2014 8:19 pm

To preface, this is a serious project. I know many have been attempted before. But we already have a programmer working nearly full time on remaking the Suikoden 2 engine feature for feature (Aside from some improvements and features from other Suikoden games)
Aside from that we already have 2 artists and a lead writer. (All of which I know pretty well and can assure you they wont flake out on us.)

But our writer needs some help. He's got an overall idea for the plot down but needs help fleshing the rest out and especially with scenario writing. The story will take place post SIII mostly in Harmonia.
If you're interested, we need someone that can handle working on a bigger project and has a good chance of not having to quit.

Please pm or email me at [email protected] if you're interested.

Thanks!
-Yensoo

PS. If you guys need some proof of progress I'll post some concept work and when there is some I'll post video's of the engine.
Long live Suikoden!

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Re: Would you like to co-write Suikoden 6? (Non-RPGmaker gam

Postby suiko2fan2 » Fri Feb 21, 2014 5:33 am

Yensoo wrote:To preface, this is a serious project. I know many have been attempted before. But we already have a programmer working nearly full time on remaking the Suikoden 2 engine feature for feature (Aside from some improvements and features from other Suikoden games)
Aside from that we already have 2 artists and a lead writer. (All of which I know pretty well and can assure you they wont flake out on us.)

But our writer needs some help. He's got an overall idea for the plot down but needs help fleshing the rest out and especially with scenario writing. The story will take place post SIII mostly in Harmonia.
If you're interested, we need someone that can handle working on a bigger project and has a good chance of not having to quit.

Please pm or email me at [email protected] if you're interested.

Thanks!
-Yensoo

PS. If you guys need some proof of progress I'll post some concept work and when there is some I'll post video's of the engine.


Even if you get great group and do everything you want to do, and produce a Suikoden 6, fanmade or not, You don't worry about Konami suing you for violating their trademark and taking their property?
I will establish one mighty nation in this land... a single, powerful nation, born of force and wielding force... that's the one and only way of freeing this land from war.

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Yensoo
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Re: Would you like to co-write Suikoden 6? (Non-RPGmaker gam

Postby Yensoo » Fri Feb 21, 2014 1:57 pm

Nope. We're all volunteers and we're not going to be selling anything, so there's no real violation. It's the same as any other fan game in the end. If it's good enough when we're done we may even submit it to Konami to be distributed or at least recognized as cannon.
Long live Suikoden!

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Pyriel
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Re: Would you like to co-write Suikoden 6? (Non-RPGmaker gam

Postby Pyriel » Fri Feb 21, 2014 3:15 pm

If you call it "Suikoden" or anything too similar, or you use any of the concepts from their copyrighted works, you're opening yourself up to lawsuits. You don't have to be raking in the jack to be in violation of a copyright or trademark. It's just a question of whether or not the holder cares enough to pursue the matter. If you think you can generate something that Konami would want to publish as part of the main universe of Suikoden, you're almost certainly going to infringe enough for them to take notice. If you ignore their cease and desist notice, or they skip right to litigation, the only way you could reasonably hope to win is if you can prove that Konami has abandoned their claim to those rights, and they clearly haven't.

Chances are they won't care, unless you're unlucky enough to be starting this project right as Konami is deciding to ramp up their Suikoden team again. But don't fool yourself into believing that this game would be clean and free from all prosecutable IP violations.

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Re: Would you like to co-write Suikoden 6? (Non-RPGmaker gam

Postby Antimatzist » Fri Feb 21, 2014 6:11 pm

Even if you were right and doing nothing illegal, would you invest a large sum of money into lawyers just to prove that you're right? There were many huge fanprojects in the past that got cancelled (like a lot of Pokemon stuff and that Chrono Trigger 3D remake). And if you really can realize the project in a large scale, you will surely grab Konami's attention.

That said, I don't value fan games a lot. I mean even if it's good, it's still just fanfiction. If Konami does something strange with characters/locations, then I can say "Ok, it's at least official", but in a fan-game, that'd surely be a reason for me to stop playing. But I guess that's just me.

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Re: Would you like to co-write Suikoden 6? (Non-RPGmaker gam

Postby suiko2fan2 » Sat Feb 22, 2014 4:16 pm

Pyriel wrote:If you call it "Suikoden" or anything too similar, or you use any of the concepts from their copyrighted works, you're opening yourself up to lawsuits. You don't have to be raking in the jack to be in violation of a copyright or trademark. It's just a question of whether or not the holder cares enough to pursue the matter. If you think you can generate something that Konami would want to publish as part of the main universe of Suikoden, you're almost certainly going to infringe enough for them to take notice. If you ignore their cease and desist notice, or they skip right to litigation, the only way you could reasonably hope to win is if you can prove that Konami has abandoned their claim to those rights, and they clearly haven't.

Chances are they won't care, unless you're unlucky enough to be starting this project right as Konami is deciding to ramp up their Suikoden team again. But don't fool yourself into believing that this game would be clean and free from all prosecutable IP violations.



Pyriel pretty much summed up what I was going to follow up with to say about the matter in terms of the legalese of it. But, hey It is your time and money use it how you want man.
I will establish one mighty nation in this land... a single, powerful nation, born of force and wielding force... that's the one and only way of freeing this land from war.

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Re: Would you like to co-write Suikoden 6? (Non-RPGmaker gam

Postby Yensoo » Sat Feb 22, 2014 4:29 pm

Here's the thing. If we get a cease and desist we will stop, and I figure the chances of that are about the same as the project falling apart on its own anyway. I was talking to a friend of mine in the gaming industry and he really doubts they would just into suing (It's not like they'd have much to take from us) and if we do have to cease and desist we'll still have a fully functional RPG engine on which to make an original game and maybe even make money off of it.

Also looking at things like Project M, that is a fully functional game that is used in paying tournaments around the world, Nintendo is still working on the series, and they haven't even mentioned shutting them down. So there's always a chance no one will care.

The way I see it, this projects success is just as much a risk as any other fan game. But no risk no reward.
If you don't wanna help that's fine. Thanks for the concern though.
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Re: Would you like to co-write Suikoden 6? (Non-RPGmaker gam

Postby Pyriel » Sat Feb 22, 2014 4:53 pm

Project M seems to be a mod of Smash Brothers Brawl. Not quite the same thing as creating an original work. However, it's true that game companies don't take action against every infringement. If they did, ROM-hacking and the mod communities for most games wouldn't exist.

I'm not interested because you're looking for writers, and I have no interest in dusting off my writing skills to attempt to carry on the Suikoden story. As far as technical help goes, well, I've never coded a game from the ground up, and you don't seem to be in the market for that anyway. Then there's the fact that every project like this always starts with big promises, all the reasons why this time is different, and how reliable the people on this project are. This one will be finished, because we're determined...3 divorces, 2 weddings, and 4 job changes later, the one guy who still has his copy of the resources will dust it off for one last demo video.

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Yensoo
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Re: Would you like to co-write Suikoden 6? (Non-RPGmaker gam

Postby Yensoo » Sat Feb 22, 2014 5:21 pm

That's the spirit!
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Re: Would you like to co-write Suikoden 6? (Non-RPGmaker gam

Postby BrucePrintscreen » Sun Feb 23, 2014 5:09 am

Be realistic guys, the legal point is absolutely not the problem here. No one would bother sueing a poor guy with his computer who did a fangame for him and his friends for free and have zero money to be sued for - hell, it wouldn't even cover the lawyer's fee.

The problem you will encounter, Yensoo, is that you are here opening your project to everyone, and not everyone does a good job. Not that I would do, by the way. But what if Tara Gilesbie and Christian Weston Chandler are lurking this forum and decide to write to you with their contributions to the scenario of your Suikoden 6 ?

There have been dozens of projects of fan-made Suikoden games, which as such proves the quality of the original ones: a game that is almost 20 years old but fascinates people enough so that they would invest any effort they can in playing a sequel, that's a successful game.

But is it really feasible? Notwithstanding the technical aspect of creating a game engine, who could write a new Suikoden game?

If Suikoden were an adventure game with a linear story, it may be possible to offer an adventure to some canon characters in a remote valley with a few dungeons and towns. But Suikoden is a game about huge wars and events that change the face of their world.

My point is: if you create a Suikoden 6, you can't do it without altering the canon, and this is not something fans can really do.

Unless you do it only as a fan game for a small part of people. Recently my wife and I discussed writing our own Suikoden game, a thing called "Suikoden 2.5". Our idea was to make a sequel to S2 that our daughter could play when she is older. THe game would be taylor-made for her in a way, with a female main protagonist, and characters & situations that match her interest and our family history. Such a game could be a lot of fun for us (I was inspired by a guy who created his own Monkey Island-like game as a birhtday gift for his MI-fan girlfriend), but it wouldn't be of any interest to anyone else.

If a game engine like the one you offer to create existed, it is likely my wife & I would pay interest in it to create a Suikoden 2.5 for our private enjoyment, and certainly many other people would do their own Suikoden game for a small circle.

My conclusion is: perhaps this is where you should put your efforts. If you have the talent and time to devote to creating the technical aspect of the game, you would contribute in giving to many people the opportunity to satisfy their fantasy of their own little Suikoden sequel. But if you lock yourself in the dead-end of a community-written sequel, it is likely you will encounter the same problem as any fan-made game by a group of fans: arguments and ego trips around a story that is in many ways amateurish and matching almost no-one's expectations!

I hope you take this as the encouragement that it is. And don't worry about a lawsuit, they have something to do with your time and money than seizing your laptop because you emulated a game engine they created twenty years ago on a console that sells 40$ on eBay.

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Re: Would you like to co-write Suikoden 6? (Non-RPGmaker gam

Postby Antimatzist » Sun Feb 23, 2014 5:44 am

Be realistic guys, the legal point is absolutely not the problem here. No one would bother sueing a poor guy with his computer who did a fangame for him and his friends for free and have zero money to be sued for - hell, it wouldn't even cover the lawyer's fee.

For the company, it's not about making money, but protecting their IP. SquareEnix is a good example, I think every recent fanproject gets shut down (some of them I agee like this FF VII Fan movie on kickstarter, others, like the Chrono Trigger 3D remake, I don't. Hell, they don't do anything with the IP anyway!). So if this is really an ambitious project and people would say that it looks and feels like a Suikoden 6, it might run into problems. But of course that's not certain, only probable.

There have been dozens of projects of fan-made Suikoden games, which as such proves the quality of the original ones

I know of none,a t least not one that is completed.

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Re: Would you like to co-write Suikoden 6? (Non-RPGmaker gam

Postby Raww Le Klueze » Sun Feb 23, 2014 6:02 am

Companies don't all behave the same. They all deal with things in their own way and Konami of Japan has a history of rabidly protecting their IP's, they've shut down mere fansites in the past for using Suikoden materials. Granted, that was years ago now and assumingly they've adapted to the new times but don't fool yourself into thinking they don't care because they do and the moment they percieve you doing something that threatens them or their IP they will shut you down and you have no way of knowing what they consider a threat.
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Re: Would you like to co-write Suikoden 6? (Non-RPGmaker gam

Postby Yensoo » Sun Feb 23, 2014 5:29 pm

Again. Everyone here is focusing on the mouse when there's a snake in the room. I think legal action is the least of the issues standing in our way. And it's going to be hard to make a full game regardless of if they tell us to stop. As I said before, we may get a cease and desist. But that was never the cause of any fan game shutting down before as far as I know. The trouble is people not wanting to make anything cause they are lazy.

So we're going to try make this game regardless of negative feedback on here. (We have enough negatives to work with without you guys saying "nay")

But again, like I said before, worst case I truly believe is that they will send us a cease and desist (Since it's much cheaper than suing us) and in that case we will stop. I never said our project is guaranteed to be completed no matter what. Because that's the way fan games are. But even if that happens, we will have an engine to use for original games, and will probably even be releasing this engine for the community to make their own stuff with.

If you care about Suikoden you wont try to squash us for a lighter reason than what fan games already face. If you want to be helpful then help us do research or make sprites. If not, just hold your tongue, because we don't need more "nay sayers"

Jeeze I never thought I'd get so much negative feedback on this in a "Suikoden fan work" forum. wth?
Long live Suikoden!

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Re: Would you like to co-write Suikoden 6? (Non-RPGmaker gam

Postby Antimatzist » Sun Feb 23, 2014 6:19 pm

But that was never the cause of any fan game shutting down before as far as I know.

Do you mean Suikoden-specific? Then you're right, but I also don't know any Suikoden fangame. For other franchises, yeah, well, I already named a few examples. But you're right, this is only one thing to keep in mind, but you should make the game anyway.

Jeeze I never thought I'd get so much negative feedback on this in a "Suikoden fan work" forum. wth?

Nobody says you shouldn't do it, only telling you about potential risks (adding to the risk that the game might never be realized anyway).

And actually, I feel you're the negative one here? I really like fans who get creative and do stuff, but I couldn't care less about fanfiction (and a game is fanfiction), that's just a personal preference. Especially when you write a thread saying that you want to make a Suikoden VI which is really ambitious, you have to be prepared for some "negativity". And...

The trouble is people not wanting to make anything cause they are lazy.

That's just rude. I guess you want someone who knows the Suikoden world really well, because especially Harmonia is some kind of dark place we know very little about from the games. There are probably some publications that give a bit more information, but even that little bit of information is unknown to most English fans. But you'll surely want someone who knows all that so your game has a solid foundation and doesn't start with "Our story begins in Harmonia which is ruled by a dragon" which might be a cool idea for a game, but I guess is not Suikoden canon.

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Re: Would you like to co-write Suikoden 6? (Non-RPGmaker gam

Postby Yensoo » Sun Feb 23, 2014 6:58 pm

Not too sure how I'm the negative one here, (from reading what you said it almost sounds like you said making a fan game is negative :/) just trying to make something for the Suiko community (even if it ends up only being an engine) I'm not just some crazy fan girl here, I actually have worked on, and am working on, many original game projects. I just loved Suikoden and wanted to try make a finale to the series that Konami wont ever make. (If they ever do, I'm happy with this game being made untrue or useless or whatever, cause woohoo suikoden 6!)

There have been quite a few Suiko fan projects on rmxp or rmvx, some that have even been completed (if small) 2 of which were made by one of our team members. And we're doing fine researching cannon by ourselves.

What I meant by people being lazy is that the main problem with fan games is that no one gets paid, so it's not worth it to most people, though lazy was maybe the wrong word to use.

Basically I just thought coming onto "Suikoden Fan Work" and mentioning the possibility to be part of an ambitious project for the community might be met with a little more excitement or at least hope, instead of this.

I sincerely regret mentioning it to any of you. From now on I'll keep any plans to be creative and have fun with fans of a series I love to myself.

Cheers everyone.
Long live Suikoden!


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