Suikoden Stat Converter, Anyone?

[ninjaluc79]

Hello everyone.

Although I have only played Suikoden 2 (planning to play the other games, though), there's something that has troubled my mind quite a bit:

What if... Lazlo had participated in the Falenan, Toran, and Dunan Wars, and even the two Fire Bringer Wars since he is "immortal", right? I meant "ageless", by the way.

Would he be as balanced as any Suikoden hero, or would he even be better than any of them. How would he fare compared to the best-known magic swordsmen like Kyle, Flik, and Geddoe?

That's why I have decided that it's time to create a stats converter for the whole series, but SOLELY for comparison purposes. Using this, we can ship off some characters from other games into any common system we choose. Obviously, S5 would apparently be the best choice due to its inflated stats and existence of a skill system. However, I'm not that familiar with its stats, and imagine a fighter class besting a mage class IN JUST ONE SLASH! XP

Personally, I would prefer S2 as the so-called "neutral ground" since its stat system is the one I'm most familiar with, although S1 and S3 have closely similar stat systems. However, S3 would make a better neutral ground due to its skill system that S2 doesn't have. But the problem is, you will have to assign certain skills on a lot of people to make it work. For example, if one should convert Riou's stats to S3, then one must include Counter-attack, Shield Magic and Swing skills on him.

Simply shipping off stats of many characters into the stat system of S5 for example, would make them underpowered, with the natural S5 characters in a definite advantage. This is why a conversion is necessary. That's how Georg Prime in S5 became exactly how strong he is back in S2. They did not simply brought Georg's stats into 5, but instead made his stats look like exactly his back in 2.

Without any conversions, Luc, one of the best-known mages in the series, would definitely be outclassed by Zerase and Levi, or even Alhazred and Warlock. With the stat converter, we can PRECISELY compare all known player characters in the Suikoden Series, and I hope from doing this to end all the debates as to who is the most powerful warrior in the land of Suikoden.

[Antimatzist]

Interesting idea, imo. How do you plan to do that? I have some ideas myself how to convert them, but already see some flaws in my theory, hehe.

[ninjaluc79]

I have some sample conversions into the Suikoden 2 Stat System, HERE.

s2sim.zip

Note that I didn't put any stats on the Prince of Falena and his Queen's Knights yet, as the Suikoden 5 stat system is inflated, and is thus more tricky than the past Suikoden stat systems. Gremio doesn't have his stats yet since he has an awkward STR growth of 0-1 from 20-59 and 2-3 from 60-99. Probably this should be reversed. Nonetheless, Gremio might have at least a STR rank of B.

UPDATE: Added some more characters, but not enough to cover everyone in Suikoden. Colored some fields there for comparison purposes, such as:

-"Who's the strongest Hero and Partner?"
-Flik vs. Geddoe for the title of Suikoden's Best Rune Knight
-Battle between the Suikoden 1-4 Full-Fledged Mages. (not included Mazus and the S5 Mages yet O_O)
-"Did Kika pass down the Falcon style of fighting to Anita and Valeria?"

My personal opinions:

-Tir McDohl easily wins the title of the strongest Hero in the magic department due to his high MAG stat and Soul Eater Rune, which can inflict instant death.

-In terms of physical power, I'd vote for Riou because he has it all in S2: high ATK, okay HP, moderate DEF, and incredibly high dodge, criticals, and counter-attack rate.

-Hugo's actually fine, if you ask me. But his True Fire Rune has a "friendly-fire" function which some people would not appreciate much, anyway. So, no offense intended, he's the weakest hero under this system.

-They say Lazlo was a beast in Tactics, but IMO he's more suited as a tank under the S2 system since he has the highest HP rate among all the heroes. Nonetheless, nice stats overall except for LUCK, which means he won't crit often.

-Jowy is easily the best hero partner due to his high MAG stat and the Black Sword Rune. Too bad you can't use him for the entire game. But Geddoe can gun for the best secondary hero, too. Hail, True Lightning!

-Nanami is easily the speed star among all the female hero partners. Chris is technically a tank, and Lyon might be the strongest hero partner physically. But Lyon's low MAG stat in Suikoden 2 terms will make the Twilight Rune suffer against the Black Sword Rune. Why so? I expect Jowy hitting 600 MAG by Suikoden 5. But who knows? Maybe Twilight can even be stronger story-wise.

-Geddoe FTW due to his True Lightning Rune, but we haven't seen Kyle and Richard from S5 just yet.

-I think all the full-fledged mages are equal in power. But among them, Ted is the most unique mage since he's actually a Rune Archer. Nice to see Mazus and Crowley, and Andarc the "Blade Mage" here, though.

-Well, the answer is yes. I think.

UPDATE: Added the extrapolated character stats of Suikoden 2 enemy characters, which include:

-Rowd (levels 25 and 99) - He's weak IMO.
-Luca Blight (levels 54 and 99) - This guy's a beast!
-Lucia (levels 58 and 99)
-Seed (levels 65 and 99)
-Culgan (levels 65 and 99)
-Gorudo (levels 59 and 99)

As stated above, these stats are only extrapolated from the bestiary, except for Lucia, which has been extrapolated from her S3 stats. Considering their stats, they're even more balanced for their respective classes than the regular SoDs.

Note that these stats may not be that accurate, as explained by Luca's average TECH and SPD when as a boss he counter-attacks often. At least with Viktor, whose TECH and SPD are equal to his, anyway. But nonetheless, he still has insane STR and HP, as evidenced by his boss stats.

There, it's done.

[Antimatzist]

Chris and Snowe make really bad mages in this system, so it's kind of odd of Chris having the True Water Rune.

No surprise here, eh? Chris was also a really bad mage in S 3 and I also used Snowe just as a power-hitter...

[ninjaluc79]

Actually, I'm kind of surprised that Lazlo has a lot of HP in S2, albeit having a lower DEF than say, Humphrey. But well, that makes Lazlo a good RoP user since RoP consumes some HP everytime it is used.

As for Chris and Snowe, yeah, no surprise about that. I'm just surprised about Lazlo, that is.

EDIT: I'm considering making a Tactics simulator once I know the stat growths there. There is one problem which I would like to discuss with everyone: the other characters' terrain element.

Lazlo has a Wind Element. And so is Luc, Tir(assumed), and Frey(assumed)

I'm not sure about Riou and Jowy. Nanami, I think, could be Lightning elemental. Riou has the highest affinity to Resurrection, but there is no Resurrection in Tactics, so I'm torn between between Fire and Water as his element. Jowy, on the other hand, has Darkness. But there's no Darkness in Tactics, so I'm torn between Water and Lightning on him. But I think:

Riou - Water
Jowy - Lightning or Wind
Nanami - Lightning

Oh, Christ. I just knew that S3's REPEL Stat works in the same way EVA does. T_T. Since there isn't a natural PDEF stat in S3 except for beasts and Gadget Z, I will have to find another way to evaluate PDEF when converting it into the different stat systems.

[ninjaluc79]

What? Nobody's going to see my new file? Too bad.

I have changed(updated) the Excel file at least 3 times to put in the updates. And no one's interested anymore?

Hmph. Never mind, though. I bet this is just nerdy stuff that only a few could appreciate. But thanks, anyway.

I just thought with this file you could make custom characters with stats, you know.

s2sim.zip

[ninjaluc79]

Well, sorry about that part of the post. Just being a whiny kid, is all. Don't worry, though. I'm already past it.

By the way, I just added Crowley's, Noah's and the Nekobolds' S2 stats.

http://img233.imageshack.us/i/newpictureo.png/

It seems Crowley's the better mage offensively, while Mazus is better defensively. The Nekobolds' main stats seem to be STR and SPD, unlike Dog-Kobolds like Gengen and Gabocha have TECH and LUCK as primary stats. Cat-Kobolds seem to have better MDEF than Dog-Kobolds.

That way, the Cat-Kobolds are suited as Fast Hitter types, while Dog-Kobolds are more of Critical Type characters.

Heh, so much for the "might of the Kobolds."

BTW, another simulator here. This time, for Suikoden 3. I figured this would be the best stat system to be used as the "neutral ground" since the events of S3 is the latest in the timeline. Skills not yet included though.

s3sim.zip

UPDATE: Added Viktor, Flik, and the Wingers. Edge's stats are included here only for comparison.

http://img820.imageshack.us/i/newpicture1u.png/

It seems that Edge has Flik's stats. So strength-wise, I'd say Viktor wields the Star Dragon Sword better. But Edge has Rune Knight stats, so he can wield SDS better with Sword Magic.

As for the Wingers, it seems all of them have equal strength. Well, you judge who's the strongest Winger.

Added the S5 characters Frey, Lyon, Miakis, and Zerase. Georg and Luc are added here only for comparison.

http://img62.imageshack.us/f/newpictureek.png/

You know what? Picking the best Suikoden mage is definitely going to be a tough call.

[radynaraya]

I recently joined this forum .
You've got nice project here . Well, i think is dead already, right?
But since i too like this kind of thing maybe i would like to contribute myself to encourage you.
can you teach me how you convert stat to S3 (neutral ground)? we know S3 using SKILL in the stats growth. how you did it?
thanks if you really reply me, i believe this thread not dead yet.

[thcrock]

I don't know how I never saw this topic before, as it seems really interesting. Partially because it's such a hard problem to do accurately. If you just stick to base stats, its somewhat easier (rank the characters in each game and clamp the values to whatever system you're converting to), but doesn't tell the whole story. Should you take game-specific systems into account, like S3's skills? Skills like Swing directly affect the damage you can do, and that isn't a 1:1 translation into some of the games. Should you boost the STR stat in that case? Tons of things to take into consideration, but it'd be really cool if it was done.