Below is a tentative list of the 108 stars I intend to use in a Suikoden Project my team has been working on. The game takes place between the events of the Succession War and the Kaleka Incident. I posted this because I'm looking for some Suikohistorians to poke as many holes as possible in my game. I'm trying to keep the game 100% in line with the all ready established Suikoden Continuity. I need to find continuity glitches and correct them. Many of these glitches come in the form of So and so hasn't met so and so yet.

I'll give a few examples of what I'm looking for:

1. An all ready established glitch is the fact that Mathiu took part in the War of Succession along with both Cleo and Gremio. However, in Suikoden when you first get to Seika Cleo and Gremio both talk to Mathiu and don't recognize him.

Solution: We gave Mathiu a different Look and he won't be having any major scenes with these two characters.

2. Gremio, Cleo, & Odessa don't know each other during Suikoden 1.

Solution: I say prove it. Cleo says "That name sounds familiar" when meeting Odessa for the first time. Even though it originally meant something else this statement can easily be reinterpreted in our favor. For Gremio the solution is much more elegant. I intend to have a scene in which he pretends not to know somebody because of the embarrassment that comes along with befriending a traitor. Its a move that's in character for him, as seen with Camille the debt collector.

3. Humans, Elves, Dwarves, and Kobolds don't like eachother in Suikoden 1. How on earth is it possible to for them to be teaming up with their oppressors in this game?

Solution: I'm playing this one to plot. The way I've set it up is that since the other races cut themselves off from the humans centuries ago, their prejudices have faded a bit. One of the major plot points is that Barbarossa earns the trust of these races before breaking his promises to them. Which causes them to hate humans so damn much.

108 Stars of Destiny

Key:
# Indicates a new character
* Indicates that character is a possibility only
() Indicate Age or Actual Age/Physical Age during SY 446


1. Barbarossa (40)
2. Lepant (30)
3. Mathiu Silverburg (23)
4. Zerase (?) or Ted 306/?)
5. Humphrey Mintz (20)
6. Kasim Hazil (31)
7. Kwanda (24)
8. Pesmerga (?)
9. Gremio (15)
10. Chief of Dwarves (?)
11. Windy (?)
12. Cleo (16)
13. Viktor(17) or Jack#
14. Kilawher Shulen (14) [Falcon Style Fighter]
15. Griffith (15)
16. Elza*
17. Odessa (14)
18. Ain Guide (29)
19. Teo (31)
20. Stallion (27) or Cathari (26)
21. Georg Prime (26)
22. Fu Su Lu* (20)
23. Kirkis (24)
24. Milich (26)
25. Pahn (17)
26. Sonya Schulen (15)
27. Anji (16)
28. Tai Ho* (22)
29. Kanak (21)
30. Randa# <Amada's Father>
31. Leonardo (19)
32. Kanaan (21)
33. Kraze Miles(24)
34. Varkas (22)
35. Gwen# <Mt. Seifu Bandit's Leader>
36. Eileen (20)
37. Leon Silverburg(34)
38. Raven (26)
39. Ivanov (18) or Statue Builder#
40. Jeane (?)
41. Eikei* (19) or Arena Master#
42. Isabel (24)
43. Mathias (26)
44. Grenseal (12)
45. Alen (13)
46. Twaikin (11)
47. Jabba (48) or Appraiser#
48. Persistant Character#
49. Blackman (32) <Farmer>
50. Joshua Levenheit (208/?)
51. Richard Silverburg <Rikimaru> (10)
52. Gantetsu (30)
53. Simone (17)
54. Phonologist*#
55. Dwarven Armorsmith#
56. Liukan (?) or Huan (19)
57. Fukien (51)
58. Thrash (?)
59. Ninja Girl#
60. Badeaux (23)
61. Crowley (101)
62. Mondo (20)
63. Hanzo (25)
64. Bartender#
65. Sergei (23)
66. Raura* (?) or Hortez VI#
67. Luke (17) <Girl Chaser>
68. Ashino# <Kinnison's Foster Father>
69. Wang <Joker> (16)
70. Amada (11)
71. Zorak <Librarian>
72. Hellion (58)
73. Talise# <Dancer>
74. Milia (9)
75. Tenkou (50)
76. Juppo (14)
77. Winger Girl# <Singer>
78. Viki (16)
79. Zweig (36)
80. Vincent De Boule (19)
81. Gadget Beta#
82. Nicolai Cray (?)
83. Giovanni (22) <Journalist>
84. Richmond (20) or Kobold [Toran] Detective#
85. Achilles#
86. Kai (38)
87. Shayna# <Half-Elven Pet Girl, Rubi's Sister>
88. Mace (48)
89. Onil(43) or Gossip/Lottery Hag#
90. Kobold[Nay] 1#
91, Kobold[Toran] 2#
92. Breeder#
93. Jinkai or Chef #
94. Kahn Marley (17)
95. Dwarven Vault Keeper#
96. Creepy Winger*#
97. Chief of Elves (?)
98. Bertha Belle#
99. Gaspar (23)
100. Random Character#
101. Marie (27)
102. Zen* (25) or Random Character#
103. Shina (4) <Ashino's pet & Shiro's Mother>
104. Sansuke (12)
105. Piccolo (32)
106. Takemu (23)
107. Guillaume (24)
108. Shop Keeper#

Other Stars Yet to be Placed:
Joshua's Dragon# (Vehicle)
Alucard (Just playin')
5 Elemental Cats <Shayna's Pets>

Alen and Grenseal, they were Teo Mcdouls closest allies, so they should definitly be part of the team.



Kraze (Nagging)
Kanaan (Timid)

_________________
These wings arn't just for show you know!
-Chaco

I considered Kraze as the nagger and Kanaan as the timid character. They definitely should be a team. I think it makes for an interesting reinterpretation of the Hix/Tengaar relationship

The problem with Alen and Grenseal is that Alen is only 13 years old and Grenseal is only 12. Even though the Scarlet Moon Empire has been known to recruit soldiers as young as 14 years old in Tir's case I seriously doubt they would recruit as young as 12. Even if the Empire did recruit kids as young as 12 years old. Also, I don't really want the "pretty boy" characters to be 12 year olds. It's a little more suggestive than I'm comfortable with in a way that I'm not really comfortable with. You know? However if I make them recruitable during the Jowstone War they would be 15 & 16 years old. Still pretty gross... I'll ad them as maybes. It might be interesting to see how a couple of young punks catch Teo's attention as Soldiers.

That happens all the time in Suikoden, Futch is like 9-10 in Suikoden 1.
Maybe it would be suggestive, but they did join general Teo and became rather close alleis of his, which is why I think it's important to have them, but I do see hjow saying they are "pretty" is kinda...off....SO it's a dilema for sure.

_________________
These wings arn't just for show you know!
-Chaco

If memory serves Viktor was still living in North Wind during this time frame, as North Wind was destroyed 1 year after the Kalekka incident, and he was still living there, but on an "errand" during Neclords attack.

Also, the idea of having Neclord and Kahn Marley or Viktor on the same 108 stars seems a little off to me, you have Nec listed as an unplaced star.

Also given the age discrepency between Sonya and Teo, i wouldn't suggest having a relationship beyond professionaly between them at this point.

You may correct me if i am wrong, but there are NO wingers in the Scarlet Moon empire, and to my knowledge none were allowed in until after the establishment of the Toran Republic, so i dont see you logically being able to have a "creepy winger", though then again, there was only 1 winger in the whole of Zexen/Grasslands, so *shrug*

On that note, if memory serves, the Scarlet Moon empire, much like the galactic empire, was highly racist, and the likelyhood of having any races other than the established Kobolds, Elves, and Dwarves is again highly unlikely. (they're listed in not placed stars)

Thats all for now, something is nagging at me though and i cant think of what it is...If i think of it i'll let you know.

Alen & Grenseal's age isn't important. It's the fact that they are the "Sexy Man" star combo. I've all ready resolved this. I'll have them join during the Jowstone War which will make them 14 & 15 years old and I'm going to give them a teenage fangirl club. It'll be humorous and allow the to retain their "pretty boy" status in an appropriate way. They are going to be the new Jonas Brothers. It'll be funny.

I have a way to get Neclord in without triggering attention from the Marley family. I really wanted to use a new Marley character (aptly named Kirk for the star trek pun) but a 17 year old Kahn Marley's inexperiance is exactly the reason this is possible. I don't want to spoil it but it is totally possible. I'll say this, Neclord isn't going to be using a name like Neclord in this game...

Victor and Neclord is absolutely possible too. North Window is still standing during this game and Viktor has no vendetta against him. Originally, I was planning on having Viktor and Daisy who at this point is living with Viktor's family get caught up in the war while visiting the S.M.E with his grandmother Martha. That was until I found out that Viktor's Grassland born Grandmother Martha isn't the same Grassland Born Martha from Suikoden III (which really sucks because she is an awesome character). Now, I still have him going to the S.M.E.(Scarlet Moon Empire) with Daisy who has been there before to get medication from the famous Dr. Liukan for his ailing grandma. The idea is that he gets caught up in the war, has a touching scene with his father who dies, and eventually succeeds in getting the medicine from Dr. Liukan who after the game continues to prepare the medication every month and has it delivered to South Window where Viktor goes to pick it up. Which, as we all know is the specific errand he goes on when Neclord destroys the North Window. Having Daisy come with allows for Viktor to fall in love with her and gives Neclord a reason to go to North Window looking for brides. I think it works in continuity very well thank you. So even though he is a resident of North Window, I figured he could be stuck in the S.M.E. during the Wars as the borders would likely be closed. However, if there is an official publication that says he was specifically in North Window between 446 and 448. I need to know before I put this in my game. I may have to have him sneak back across the border or I may have to scrap this plot point. *Crosses Fingers*

The age discrepancy between Teo and Sonya inspired the fangirl idea that I copied over to Alen and Grenseal. Sonya is going to have a crush on Teo very much akin to that of Nina and Flik. It's going to be another very fun aspect of the game. I'm imagining though bubbles with hearts and pictures of Teo in them. Teo will see her as a child.

I was unaware of there being no Wingers allowed in the Scarlet Moon Empire. I'm not attached to a creepy winger though. I'll be okay without one. However, I could have a more respectable winger in the game fighting along side Barbarossa (who by the way, along with Teo and Odessa is very much a main character of this game), earning both his respect and promises to give the Winghorde equal rights. Only to Barbie's promises empty after he becomes fascinated with Windy which as we all know leads to the ruin of his empire.

You are right about racism in the empire. It's definitely part of this game too. I always thought the non-human racism in Suikoden 1 stemmed from Kwanda Rossman and possibly Lady Windy. Although, if I recall correctly she doesn't really exhibit much racism in Suikoden 1, I figured she probably helped push Kwanda to his racist goals via the conquerer rune. Racism is an important part of my game. I really had to think about this one because during the War of Succession Barbarossa made Pannu Yakuta his headquarters. How could he have possibly got in there without the cooperation of the elves? I don't think anybody has an answer for that.

Thankfully, Pannu Yakuta is conveniently built over some Sindar ruins. However, even if he could get over to the Elven Side without the forest path I think he would be hard pressed to find a way to move thousands of men through a tunnel to fight full on wars. I'm still tinkering this one out but my general idea is that dear Barbie will make some promises in earnest that begins to heal the wounds of racism left by the old S.M.E. regime and garners the favor of the Elves and Dwarves that he fails to keep. Which causes the extreme racism seen exhibited by the Elves in Suikoden 1. They really hate humans don't they? At the very least I'll keep Duck and Lizard out of the game. I may have to say goodbye to the Nay Kobold too but I really was thinking about a dog/cat Kobold pair combo. It'll be a stretch though.

I really appreciate the feedback keep it coming.

Morgan hasn't been in the SME at this point. At the age of 11, his eyes were removed in Falena, so he was still there. Rikimaru, on the other hand, doesn't seem to be very fitting, as his name "Rikimaru" is often considered not to be his real name. Maybe you could give him another name and add another character, who is his friend he'll lose. And after the events, he goes on a journey and changes his name.

You should definitely take Achilles, as he's Odessas's lover at that time. And the Kalekka incident takes place about 5 years before his execution.


I don't think Belcoot would help out in that army, he's training the Falcon style at that moment and I guess he wants to finish his practice as soon as possible.

Cathari is very unlikely. Only if Harmonia was interested in any True Rune in that war- maybe the Sovereign Rune?


Isabel and Mathias were on their way to Falena, I guess.


No, she was definitely in Falena.

No, not Richard... he was born and lived in Radat, and I guess he stays there until he's recruited in S II.

That's just a general overview. But I like the idea!And can't wait for the results^^

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||Suikoversum.de - The German Suikoden-portal||

Please dont use either of these two, they are btoh so rediculously hated.

I have another suggestion which is to make up some characters of your own, it's fun to come up with new characters! Like your Kirk idea, what a nice idea that is, and I love star trek ^_^



I'd go with Cathari, she could be after the soverign rune or something, Stallion is still living in elf village and has no reason at all to leave.



Kirkis is living in Elf Village and until Suikoden 1 he doesn't leave it. Killey could possibly be there looking for the sindar.



You would be more likely to see Max and Sancho than Isabel and Mathias. Although it's possible I suppose, Max would more likely be in the area at this time.



Morgan is still in Falena. Rikimaru could work.



He doesn't "invent" the elevator until Suikoden 1, at this point he's just a random citizen. You'd be better off using a new inventor.



Kimberly was known by Mathiu in Suikoden 1, so your game could give a reason as to why he knew of her.



At this point he is rather young and his name is Wang. He doesn't change to Joker until he joins Geddoe.



You should uwse the guy who follows Milich around instead of Cornelio. It makes more sense to have the singer from Suikoden 1 than this guy. (I think his name was Kasios)



These don't have to be kobolds, they can be any non-human



Lol this doesn't have to be a winger, it can be anyone who is creepy. (I bealive Ledon held this spot?)



Ronnie Bell?



I HIGHLY doubt he would help humans

_________________
These wings arn't just for show you know!
-Chaco

Are they both hated? I had no idea. I kind of like sleazy characters. Guillaume in particular is both incredibly sleazy and incredibly creeper and I kind of dig that.



I intend on making several characters. I just wanted to put every single possibility up there. However, I didn't put *'s next to all of them. I'm a busy man.



I'm leaning towards Cathari. She takes care of both a speedster and a gunner. Plus, I may be able to develop her a little bit through flashback, or some more generally accepted suikoden storytelling method.





I'm aware of the advantages of Killey's MO(it makes the Pannu Yakuta situation a little easier to deal with), however the timing may not be possible when you consider the fact that this game occupies him until 448, 1 year before he gets himself locked up in prison in Falena. Does anybody here know how long Killey was in Prison?.



Max actually hates the Scarlet Moon Empire because of some political stuff in the past. The S.M.E. actually disbanded his knights. He is not going to be willing to help out. Isabel and Mathias however...



Not according to Gensopedia( Yes I realize that Gensopedia isn't official, at all.) According to them his eyes were plucked out between the ages of 8 and 11 and he was sold before 449. Which makes it possible for him to be there. Though not very likely...


There is nothing out there that says he came up with the elevator during Suikoden 1. I mean think about it, he installed that thing pretty quick, as if he all ready knew what he was doing. There could actually be a few great scenes out of him testing a prototype. We could even have Adlai come and see it...



Truthfully, I'm not sold on either of these two. If I go with Kimberly than I'm going to have Tai Ho pursue her instead of running away.



I know is name is Wang, I included Joker in [] so that people who didn't know that would know who I'm talking about. Wang is one of my favorite characters in Suikoden III. I may fill in his back story some...



I want to switch up Milich's crew some. Kasio's is 11 years old at this time and I just don't care for him. I kind of like Cornelio. I'm all for making new characters but the castle singer is usually a very 2 dimensional character and I think I'll say my personal creations for characters who count. Since our team is only three creators big right now, we are going to have an amount of non-combat characters closer to Suikoden 1 and 2. It's the simple reality of what we are doing. However, you've got me thinking about a warrior woman with a singing sword.....Grr...



Log and Lun actually prove you wrong. I think now they only have to be a mischievous pair. Nonetheless, I have a great concept of a smart cat and dumb dog pair that should be a lot of fun.



You are correct on both counts sir. It does not have to be a winger (and if you read the above posts you'll see that a winger may not be appropriate at all) and Ledon is ultra-creepy. His very face makes me uncomfortable.



Ronnie bell is too young to be an amazon woman. I could make an amazon child, but I'd rather create a new character. Possibly her mother or big sister or something.




Like I said earlier, I'd like to explore the reasons why he hates humans so much in Suikoden one during this game?

Mh but I guess if he already invented an elevator before Sui I, he wouldn't complain that no one ignores his "new invention"...

EDIT: Why not "invent" some local dukes from former Kooluk empire? They could be sent from their countries (iirc the Kooluk empire disbanded into several smaller countries) to watch the situation in Scarlet moon.

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||Suikoversum.de - The German Suikoden-portal||

Huh? I sorry but I'm not understanding what you are saying. Are you saying I need some characters from former Kooluk. If so you are correct. Which characters in Suikoden IV are from Kooluk? I've only played that game once when it was new. I may be able to include a few of thier descendants

The elves in s4 hated human's as well. Its most likely a something bred into them and raised from a LONG time ago.

I'd just like to saythat Max and Sancho are definitely the better move. As we dont know when the Maximillian Knights were disbanded, its logical to believe that they helped in the Succession war and then were betrayed, causing Max's hatred toward the SME.

Also, as teo is your #1 he's not going to be the Tenkai is he?

Exactly that's what I meant.. well, we don't know a lot of people from Kooluk.. most of them are descendants from the Royal Family.

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||Suikoversum.de - The German Suikoden-portal||

I know all about Rikimaru's history. I think he is a very compelling character. I'm a big fan of the the Suikox Character Speculation article on him. Since maru is a suffix applied to swordsmen implying an alias, maybe I'll call him Richard...



Oh Achilles is definitely in. Don't worry.



Unless I make Roundier Haia one of my stars too.... I've considered including Roundier a character as well but I don't want to mess him/her up if they use him/her in a later game. There are lots of possible plot devices which allow Belcoot to join the army. The first one that comes to mind is that he finished his training and he gets caught up in the war on the way home, decides that he has a few years to kill before the the Games in Falena. Even better is that he is ordered by Roundier to help as a final test of his training.



Cathari is very likely. Harmonia is interested in lots of things like influencing who will rule Falena and collecting True Runes. I don't think it's too far of a stretch to imagine that Cathari is not only keeping tabs on war in Falena but the fate of the Sun Rune. When you apply the same process to the Scarlet Moon Empire the Sovereign Rune falls right in line. More importantly she is the only established Howling Voice Guild member available. If I don't include Cathari I'll have to create another gunner, which really isn't a problem for me.



Plus the Maximillian Knights were disbanded by 434 after the Highland-Jowston War for siding with the wrong team. Max is an enemy of the Scarlet Moon Empire. He and Sancho Do Not Work. Which is very sad because I dearly love Don Quixote. I would have loved to play with him.



At her age, I'd have to agree with you. I think I may let her story begin with Suikoden V.



I'm giving up on Richmond as well. I technically could have him in Toran on an investigation or I could create a new character as well.



You are going to have to wait. It's going to be a good long time before this game comes out if we don't get any more people to join our little group. We may still beat Suikoden VI though...

I'm still am wondering if you're planning to put Teo as the hero star. The more appropriate character would be Emperor Barbarossa, as he follows the established norms of the Tenkai. Powerful or well known parents, and forced to carry a true rune (sovereign). Just a thought....