Meaning & significance change: Stars of Destiny/Starbearer

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Meaning & significance change: Stars of Destiny/Starbearer

Postby LanceHeart » Sat Apr 04, 2009 12:50 pm

So after taking some time to talk to everyone around the HQ prior to the final battle (yeah, major spoilers) I noticed Zenoa saying something extremely interesting.

She talks of there being a variable amount of Stars of Destiny in each world of the Infinity. Many of them only have a single star, too. What's more, each different star seems to represent a "destiny" for the world, meaning the ones with only one Star of Destiny were doomed to fall victims to The One King.
As the first Bad Ending you can get suggests, the technique that uses up all of the Stars of Destiny basically destroys all possible destinies for the world, thus The One King still wins and presumably continues on his quest of the Infinity's fusion.

This begs the question: Does this even tie into how Stars of Destiny used to work? In the original world Stars of Destiny are born under their star and are pretty much bound to a fate similar to their Shui Hu Zhuan counterpart. They rally around the Tenkai Star when needed and work together to defeat an insurmountable war.
In Tierkreis, it seems like the Stars of Destiny simply attach themselves onto characters that fit them most. Examples include the correlation between Vaslof and the Tenmou Star, Liu and the Tenki Star, etc. This correlation would be standard Suikoden fare if it wasn't for some people magically becoming Starbearers once they change their mind prior to touching a Chronicle... or some people quite simply becoming Starbearers out of the blue when they're already your allies, like Mubal.

Would this mean Konami is changing the real meaning of being a Star of Destiny? The change of term to Starbearers seemed like a change in localization at first, but it seems more like a change in the fundamental significance of being associated to a Star.
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Re: Meaning & significance change: Stars of Destiny/Starbearer

Postby patapi » Sun Apr 05, 2009 5:50 am

Given the fact that the 108 Stars of Destiny is one of the key concepts that were borrowed from Shui Hu Zhuan as a defining element in the series, the games rarely discuss them. All I remember was Fukien making references to them, but later on all we got are Leknaat's canon ending speeches and even then they are only referred to collectively, not individually.

...apart from one being born naturally under a specific Star (similar to how Zodiac works) and it remains the same for that person for the rest of their lives, that is. And, how some characters who change sides between games gain and/or lose their spot on the Tablet of Promise, e.g. Leon Silverberg, Lucia, etc.

However, it's worth noting that "becoming Starbearers" in Tierkreis is more about becoming able to access and use the Mark of the Stars. Maybe these people have always been born under these stars, it's just that their active contribution as an ally in the war doesn't begin until they experience the mind-shifting event. You know, how it is rumoured that Ace was actually part of Gilbert's mercenaries and thus was part of the Dunan Allied Army, but wasn't recognised as a star then, but did become one during the Second Fire Bringer War.

(More intriguing are the introduction of souls representing specific Stars, like Belemuel and Enumclaw.)

Aren't Shui Hu Zhuan's 108 supposedly represent some kind of demons anyway...?

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Re: Meaning & significance change: Stars of Destiny/Starbearer

Postby LanceHeart » Sun Apr 05, 2009 7:15 am

Yes, in Shui Hu Zhuan the 108 are actually demons who latch onto their respective hosts to influence them. In that way, Tierkreis seem to follow the original book more than the rest of the franchise.

As for the other stars being unable to enter the Tablet of Promise (like Lucia, etc.) it's pretty well known that there have been overlapping stars across each game. Tir's didn't supersede Riou as the Tenkai Star when they were both fighting in the Dunan Unification War and Ted didn't lock up the Tenkan Star, even though he instigated the Toran Liberation War.

It seems more like each Star of Destiny in the original series isn't only bound to their Star forever, they're bound to their respective war(s).

As for Tierkreis, it seems like being a Starbearer is far from being born under or defaulted under a star. Most especially because those same stars aren't even part of the world before the war starts. Even more interesting is how some weren't even Stars in their own world but were fighting alongside their world's Stars of Destiny, only to become Stars in Tierkreis' (the entire Furious Roar is one such example).
While it was obviously a mechanic to give them the ability to wield the Mark of the Stars, it also ties into what Zenoa said about how many stars there are in each world. That number being a variable amount, it seems like only a few would actually have as many as 108 compared to the "many" that only have one.

Another thing is that some of the older/wiser characters can clearly identify other Stars by its name. Ordovic clearly names one of the Stars when you talk to him (Pretty sure he says "So the Tenmou Star is here...") and others know of Ordovic's own Star.
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