The One King

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LanceHeart
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Re: The One King

Postby LanceHeart » Fri Apr 17, 2009 8:04 pm

Actually, the True Runes being the equivalent of the original world's Chronicle is probably the best theory we have right now. The True Wind Rune kept showing Luc a future that was a world of complete order (mirrors what The One King tried to do with the Million World) and we've seen that other worlds in the Suikoden multiverse have magic (Rarohenga, pre-explosion). That some True Runes are tied to other worlds isn't much of a surprise, but that some bearers can permanently hide in others seems to be what makes the whole True Runes as a True Chronicle thing work a bit sideways.

Since we haven't seen anyone try to move a True Chronicle from its original world into another one nor a "False" Chronicle from a world into another, we really won't know. What we do know is that the Mark of the Stars seems permanent to any Star, regardless of which world they were in.

(Yes, this is my feeble attempt at trying to absolve how the whole Chronicle and multiverse concept completely breaks how the True Runes worked in the original world)
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patapi
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Re: The One King

Postby patapi » Fri Apr 17, 2009 8:21 pm

Going by the in-game explanation, transporting a "True" Chronicle from its original world onto others would make it a "False" Chronicle in the new world.

LanceHeart
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Re: The One King

Postby LanceHeart » Sat Apr 18, 2009 2:22 am

While it does become a False Chronicle, that's actually because they separate them plainly in order to explain the Chronicles from fusions. Short of them appearing forcefully in another world, we've yet to see if one of them can actually move into another world.

Since one could see the 27 True Runes as the amalgamation of the original world's True Chronicle, having some parts of it in other worlds wouldn't really count as a full move.

Then again, the True Runes being the original world's True Chronicle might be extremely tenuous. There's just too little information that would explain how it would even work: A True Chronicle being able to split itself into pieces and "give birth" to other, minor versions of its split selves is extremely elaborate compared to how simple Tierkreis depicts Chronicles.
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Kranach
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Re: The One King

Postby Kranach » Sat Apr 18, 2009 2:32 am

maybe not all the 27 true runes are a part of the true chronicle... dragon rune for example lets dragon exist in the suikoden world, meaning it was the true chronicle of the dragon world making it a false chronicle in the suikoden world. the eight fold rune that yuber bears, since yuber is originally from another world, maybe the eight fold rune is also a false chronicle, the gate rune rune which connect to other dimension is very similar to the chronicle of endless travels. we can also compare the punishment rune to the chronicle of resonant horror. beginning rune to shining legacy. beast rune to furious roar.
Suikoden I - Fuma/Kage/Kasumi
Suikoden II - Mondo/sasuke/Kasumi
Suikoden III - Landis/Watari/Ayame
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Suikoden V - Shigure/Sagiri/Raven

LanceHeart
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Re: The One King

Postby LanceHeart » Sat Apr 18, 2009 7:17 am

I doubt that. The Dragon Rune seems more like a gateway for dragons to the original Suikoden world, but the World of Scale still exists separately. Same goes for the Eightfold Rune: Yuber seems more like an entity that stole/gained control of the rune and lives in its associated world instead of being an otherworldly bearer.

Then again, since we've yet to see a Chronicle leave its world (False or True), we don't have enough information either way. I'd like to think that the 27 True Runes were actually part of the same world, though.
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kelvingarinkz
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Re: The One King

Postby kelvingarinkz » Wed Apr 22, 2009 10:01 am

1. is the world of the other suikoden series, part of the Infinity ?

i assume that it is, then lets proceed to no2 and so on

2. Leknaat is a seer who can see the future etc etc right ? Do you think she might be holding the True Chronicles of the suikoden world ? Thinking of how the TierkriesHero passes the True Chronicle to Zenoa as a safekeeping measure, and how Zenoa is somehow, 'Leknaat' of Tierkries, do you think Leknaat manages to get the True Chronicles and use it to read the future ?
Afterall, she seems to KNOW the future and not doing anything about it, since theres nothing she can change about the future ...

3. the end of the world that Luc sees as a True Rune bearer, can it be that is the future about One King destroying their world ? Luc decides to destroy one of the True Runes ( one of the Chronicles ) which will result to the destruction of Grassland ... it is possible that the True Wind Rune is a True Chronicle from the world where Grassland was. So y destroying its Chronicle, it is like destroying the entire remnants of the world, like it is never exist

4. Leknaat, Zerase, Jeane, Eresh and Zenoa seems to know much more about things that are secret or unknown to the rest of the SoDs ... Can it be that they know about the Chronicles ? After all, Zenoa seems to know a lot about the Chronicles and even One King. And remember that Eresh asks the prince to help her look for something right ? Can it be a Gateway ?

5. Diadora reminds me of Viki, the ability to teleport and if two or more Chronicles can have same power or ability, do you think Viki too owns a Chronicle ?

6. *i know this is crazy but* Can True Runes are actually Chronicles ? but if it is, how come there is no 'forget and remember' scenes in suikoden ?

><"
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do reply ur takes on this yea ...
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kelvingarinkz
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Re: The One King

Postby kelvingarinkz » Thu Apr 23, 2009 10:59 am

LanceHeart wrote:Actually, the True Runes being the equivalent of the original world's Chronicle is probably the best theory we have right now. The True Wind Rune kept showing Luc a future that was a world of complete order (mirrors what The One King tried to do with the Million World) and we've seen that other worlds in the Suikoden multiverse have magic (Rarohenga, pre-explosion). That some True Runes are tied to other worlds isn't much of a surprise, but that some bearers can permanently hide in others seems to be what makes the whole True Runes as a True Chronicle thing work a bit sideways.

Since we haven't seen anyone try to move a True Chronicle from its original world into another one nor a "False" Chronicle from a world into another, we really won't know. What we do know is that the Mark of the Stars seems permanent to any Star, regardless of which world they were in.

(Yes, this is my feeble attempt at trying to absolve how the whole Chronicle and multiverse concept completely breaks how the True Runes worked in the original world)


i found an evidence regarding True Runes being Chronicles ( fake or true )
according to the official suikoden3 manga, when Hugo received the TFR and Chris TWR, both gotten images from the past. Related to when people in tierkries touch the chronicles.

but how far is the manga reliable ?
you can count on it, because it is only in the manga that the duck clan village is flooded, and officially, it was really flooded to stop the harmonian army. :):):)
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LanceHeart
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Re: The One King

Postby LanceHeart » Thu Apr 23, 2009 3:35 pm

I'm pretty sure the manga isn't canon at all compared to the games, much like the novels. Luc has ever so slightly different images of the future and has a run-in with Leknaat that doesn't really relate to the game.

I'd think the 27 True Runes are the actual True Chronicle of the original Suikoden world. We've seen that the Blades' True Chronicle is a pair of swords and the Furious Roar's is a necklace set of trinkets (which I'm sure can be separated), so why not have as many as 27 parts to one world's True Chronicle?
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Kranach
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Re: The One King

Postby Kranach » Fri Apr 24, 2009 2:56 am

we really don't know what will happen to a world when you take away it's true chronicle, the dragons living in the world of wing and scale being alive doesn't strengthen the theory that the dragon rune is a true chronicle of the main world. i still think that the dragon rune is the true chronicle of the world of wing and scale.
Suikoden I - Fuma/Kage/Kasumi

Suikoden II - Mondo/sasuke/Kasumi

Suikoden III - Landis/Watari/Ayame

Suikoden IV - Akaghi/Mizuki/Kate

Suikoden V - Shigure/Sagiri/Raven

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Re: The One King

Postby kenderlyn » Mon Sep 07, 2009 9:37 pm

Reading the 'creation' myth, it seems that any True Chronicle would be either Darkness, the Tear, or (akin to the twin blades) Sword and Shield. The True Runes hold a fragment of the True Chronicle's power, but are not Chronicles - True or otherwise - themselves.

Wild, out-there theory:
Harmonia have discovered that gathering the 27 True Runes will allow them to summon the True Chronicle.
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xLucx

Re: The One King

Postby xLucx » Mon Sep 07, 2009 10:56 pm

Maybe it's just me thinking this, but since i played tierkreis, the one king made me think of hikusaak, since we dont really know much about him, maybe his idea of gathering the 27 true runes has something to do with like valfred did but with a different idea in mind? idk, im merely saying what came to mind. Also i remember seeing the tablet of stars with all the marked out except for the tenkai star, the one king, and hikusaak was a tenkai star to wasnt he? what do you guys think on this?

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Re: The One King

Postby Chifuku_Star » Tue Jan 12, 2010 2:45 pm

Here are just some of my ideas on True Runes and the True Chronicle.

I think that we should assume that the Suikoden world (that we all know and love) is a world somewhere in the Infinity. There's a chance that it hasn't been affected by fusions, and hasn't even been remotely threatened by the One King, or maybe Tierkreis takes place way before the other games and by the time Suikoden IV happens, the One King is long gone.

The True Chronicle can be divided up (as seen by the True Chronicle from Astrasia's world). In the main Suikoden World,
Darkness shed a Tear that created the Sword and the Shield that fought and broke and created the 27 True Runes thus creating the world (poorly summed up, sorry). The 27 True Runes could be the division of the True Chronicle.

The False Chronicles are powerful enough to give all the Stars of Destinies new powers while the True Runes can only grant one person their powers at a time. The True Runes, being a division of the one True Chronicle wouldn't have as much excess power to grant to all the Stars of Destiny like the Chronicles can. The False Chronicles also seem to have bearers that can use them especially well, like Diadora who uses hers to create Gateways (which reminds me, in the HQ in S1 where Hellion and Viki stand there's that weird Gateway like looking thing that seemed to have no purpose whatsoever).

The Chronicles hold the memories and futures of the world. Luc sees a future from his Rune, a world of pure order, and he wants to destroy it. If he destroyed the True Wind Rune, then the True Chronicle could never be joined and the very future of the world would be changed. It would be chaos (which interests Yuber), the opposite of the One King's aim.

Also, Harmonia is determined to gather all the True Runes: why? The general assumption, as it seems to me, has been to get immense power, but doesn't Tierkreis give another answer, that it's to assemble the True Chronicle. That way Hikusaak could know the entire future of the world, and also have immense power o.o;;

Doesn't Tierkreis also give an answer regarding why some characters like Leknaat and Zerase know so much more about the Runes: they could be Readers. They can read into the memories of the Runes better than anyone else because when another person attempts to, they are overcome with pain (like Sophia, although it's forced upon her).

Just some ideas. I think that True Runes and the True Chronicle are in some way connected; I'd be really disappointed if they weren't and they just decided "oh hey, let's make a completely different unrelated in any way game and slap the name Suikoden on it". I mean, they did kind of did do that already with 4 person parties, totally different magic system, no large military battles or seperate duel combat.

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Raww Le Klueze
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Re: The One King

Postby Raww Le Klueze » Tue Jan 12, 2010 3:52 pm

I think that we should assume that the Suikoden world (that we all know and love) is a world somewhere in the Infinity.

Lets not. That would be a disaster and hopefully Konami will bury the Infinity crap in Tierkreis and never mention it outside that abomination.

I think that True Runes and the True Chronicle are in some way connected; I'd be really disappointed if they weren't

I'll be sorely disappointed if Konami lets Tierkreis influence the real series in any possible way. And I hope to god that I'm part of the majority there.

The very idea of an idiotic concept like the One King existing in the same reality as the one of the real series makes me want to puke.

The only saving grace Tierkreis has is that it's unrelated to the real series, thank god. Keep it that way.

"oh hey, let's make a completely different unrelated in any way game and slap the name Suikoden on it"

Yeah... hello? They did.
Doctorum Non Urina Singulus.

jonathan_priest
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Re: The One King

Postby jonathan_priest » Fri Aug 12, 2011 9:57 am

I think everyone is WAY over thinking this. I only played Tierkreis once because the game just annoyed me to death. However, in my one play through, I never once got the impression that True Chronicles were analogues for True Runes for several reasons.

1) There are 27 True Runes as opposed to IIRC 12 Chronicles. Once the 12 Chronicles appear on a world, the One King comes and destroys it. All this talk, and no one has tried to figure out how the final battle can take place on three different worlds simultaneously. This story is full of convoluted possibilities...I mean, the One King comes from the defeat of the Tenkai and yet he's fighting not only the main heroes group but the other Marica's and Artie's group at the same time, if he defeated all three, who would have become the One King?

2) The 27 True Runes are fragments of God. This was established in Suikoden 3 between the dialgoue of Caesar and Luc at the siege of Brass Castle about Luc wanting to kill God by destroying his rune.

3) It has been shown that one True Rune is more powerful than all of the Chronicles combined, because they control a fragment of that world, i.e. Life and Death, Atonement and Forgiveness, Fire, Wind, Water, Earth, etc...If anything, that Gate Rune alone proves more powerful because it allows access to the other worlds whereas Tierkreis focused on a specific gateway portal system that died after the One King's final death.

IMHO the only real connection this game had to the core world of Suikoden is the 108 stars of destiny, and as was stated previously, they didn't make anything amazing or do anything special when they were all gathered. Even transposing it on the DS system removed it form the PS platform. Far as I'm concerned, its a different reality.
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Raou
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Re: The One King

Postby Raou » Wed Nov 02, 2011 3:29 pm

I recently bought Tierkreis to give it another try and I think that Tierkreis and the numbered Suikodens are different entirely but exist in a metaverse. Consider it like this:

In one universe (I.E - Suikoden I-V) the True Runes were born of the battle between the Sword and Shield and the subsequent runes came from those runes and so forth. Runes enabled one person to use their power but cannot allow others to use them unless that rune is attached to them OR the True Rune transfers its power to them.

In the other universe (I.E - Tierkreis), the Chronicles bestow power to whomever awakens to being a Starbearer and allows everyone thusly dubbed a Starbearer to use the abilities of the Chronicles. However, (SPOILER), when the Order steals some of the Chronicles, the majority of the army loses the powers bestowed them by the Chronicles and until they'rere-obtained, they lack that power.

The way the True Runes and the Chronicles work are too different to be connected. While existing in the metaverse of Suikoden they are quite literally worlds apart in function. Considering that in order to use a True Rune or Rune it has to be ON the person versus power by transference a la Chronicle.

I simplify my belief in this: The two universes are apart and not connected except in series name.

After all, it's similar to time travel - There are an 'infinite' number of roads and while the runes creation for Suikoden I-V began with the battle of the Sword and Shield, another universe saw power born of the True Chronicle, which might be subject to the idea that there are universes where there might be new powers aside from these two. In fact, in some way, the universes ruled by the Runes could be different from what we've seen such as what if Riou had obtained the Black Sword instead of the Bright Shield? Or what if the main character in Tierkreis had obtained the True Chronicle instead of the 8th False Chronicle? In a metaverse with limitless pathways, it's not uncommon to believe these things could happen.


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