Beat the game. Anyone else underwhelmed?

Ask questions about the events and characters related to Suikoden Tierkreis here.
newsuikofan
Posts: 15
Joined: Thu Mar 19, 2009 2:14 am

Re: Beat the game. Anyone else underwhelmed?

Postby newsuikofan » Wed Jun 03, 2009 9:27 pm

@SuikoRune: I haven't quite finished this game yet but I already know the ending except for the character specifics, and I feel pretty much the same way as most on this thread about the game kind of dying off instead of building up at the end but what do you expect from a original DS RPG?

This game actually was rated much higher than Covenant of the Plume and although I completely disagree with that rating(I believe Covenant should have been close to getting the title of greatest original RPG on the DS ever in fact, despite missing a few favorites and awesome characters from the story) , this game is much better than the usual new RPG titles.

Luminous Arc and Luminous Arc 2 are original SRPGs on the DS and although they aren't bad games, they are only an example of barely above average in terms of what the DS actually has, Tierkreis is 1 to 2 levels above those in pretty much every area, it is great for a DS game and that is all it had to be.

This will never be the main Suikoden series so don't worry, but at least Suikoden could possibly have a spin off series even better than something like Final Fantasy's Crystal Chronicle garbage. I would love for them to connect Tierkreis to the main series by identifying the world with the advanced magic(the people who said they would obliterate the One King if he invaded and that the Tierkreis people wouldn't understand their advanced magic because they were too 'primitive') as the main Suikoden world like I think they will.

and also Tactics might not have been a great Suikoden game but for a Tactics game, it was extremely original and quite superior to other SRPGs( VP: Covenant wasn't even as good as Suikoden Tactics) because of its Suikoden elements (whether Disgaea or FF Tactics blowhards want to admit it or not, although FF Tactics is too old to compare it to). Basically what I was saying there is Tactics is vastly superior to Tierkreis is every way but the music so they can't be compared(Tierkreis reminded me of the excellent soundtrack from Tales of Legendia although nowhere near as good) and way above it overall for its particular role of entertainment as a SRPG to the status of Tierkreis as a traditional RPG.

Tactics was a great SRPG for those who both appreciate Suikoden and tactical battling and Tierkreis was a great RPG on the DS but a average RPG overall with awesome characters to keep it from being a flop.

I thought Tierkreis had an incredibly well rounded cast and even the side characters were awesome despite getting only a few words in so it definitely has a ton of potential to be a great side series.

User avatar
patapi
Forum Moderator
Posts: 2515
Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2004 3:55 pm

Re: Beat the game. Anyone else underwhelmed?

Postby patapi » Thu Jun 04, 2009 12:07 am

On Tactics, the biggest gripe that I've seen is around its plot and graphics. The former falls short of Suikoden-type expectations, and the latter is just standard Suikoden issue.

The mechanics don't get as much dislike, except from those who don't like sRPGs to begin with.

newsuikofan
Posts: 15
Joined: Thu Mar 19, 2009 2:14 am

Re: Beat the game. Anyone else underwhelmed?

Postby newsuikofan » Thu Jun 04, 2009 5:35 pm

patapi wrote:On Tactics, the biggest gripe that I've seen is around its plot and graphics. The former falls short of Suikoden-type expectations, and the latter is just standard Suikoden issue.

The mechanics don't get as much dislike, except from those who don't like sRPGs to begin with.

I thought the graphics were fine(sure the hands looked silly but that is easily fixed or ignored) , most SRPGs don't have good graphics when compared to their tradition RPG counterparts anyway.

and although I agree that the plot needed some work since there weren't enough battles in the actual story, once again, SRPGs are all about the combat and the plot comes second. The goal for SRPGs is not to wow anyone with awesome graphics or get the player involved with the plot, they simply try to get you to feel excited that you are fighting an epic battle that will test your abilities as a strategist for far longer than a standard turn based battle on a regular RPG and after that you will continue to fight more epic fights that are even harder and take longer until you conquer the game(not just beating the final boss and ending the story).

Sure there is a plot in SRPGs but that isn't even 5% of the game in most of them, almost the entire game is made up of the battles and as long as the battles are engaging the SRPG has done its job for the most part.


anyway although Tierkreis didn't do very well in sales, I am sure they won't give up on the series and the main Suikoden will have a nice side series to compliment it.

I just hope they decide to make a Suikoden Tactics 2 because Suikoden does work well for Tactics games.

NaYa
Posts: 6
Joined: Sun May 31, 2009 6:15 pm

Re: Beat the game. Anyone else underwhelmed?

Postby NaYa » Thu Jun 04, 2009 10:04 pm

Just finished the game today. I agree with most of what Futch said.

It indeed felt like it was written by someone who dislikes the notion of religion. Not just the One True Way, but also Ninulneda and Ordovic all just made out to be 'fake' god and their believers were made to seem foolish. It felt like they were trying to shove the personal opinion and ignorant religious views down to us. I didn't enjoy that.

Futch wrote:It started out looking as if we were going to establish an army to overthrow a tyrannical, powerful country while at the same time having to deal with other countries trying to use us for their own agenda. The Magedom of Janam had a rich political story to it. A cold but effective ruler was doing his best to set his subordanites against each other to compete both for their own improvement and for his own entertainment. Meanwhile his son is biding his time and trying to stay above the mess until he can take command and set things right, all the while thinking of his younger sister, who is being used as a pawn for science. Enter our hero, someone the prince can confide in and trust while he tends to his own complicated affairs. Then we have Chrodechild and her overtaken country. She is being used as a pawn along with our hero and countless others by the nation we thought to be the good guys. Among these are a number of smaller tribes facing the possibility of invasion and possible enslavement. Towering over it all is a huge superpower trying to take over the world, under the guise of trying to improve it. Finally we have our company, the neutral voice and rallying point against the superpower, the biggest hope for independence. It was all building up to be an emotional and epic power struggle to take down a tyrant.


I couldn't have said it better! I enjoyed the political situations and power struggle in the story so very much.
While I did foresee the demise of Magedom of Janam from where the story was heading, I did not expect the whole kingdom with its million citizens to just vanish like that! Then there was the story of the Rarohenga world being destroyed from their developed weapon being too powerful and their chronicle being warped due to having to record the instant death of millions of people. They were all so awfully tragic especially because it reminded me of the weapons of mass destruction we have these days.

Valfred... his character wasn't so bad as a villain at first but... at the end when it was revealed that all he did was just so he could spend that one day with his family... it was like a slap on the face. He lived for that long and did all those things and amassed all that power for... that?! He's just a sweet family man who wished to dwell in the past? Oh Come On!
And Dirk was the most horrible character. When he died, while the other characters all cried, I was saying "good riddance!" His actions just weren't believable at all.
The ending felt rushed as well. They built up to it so much and then... it was over like that. I was expecting a lot more.
I loved when they showed what happened to each characters during the credits though. That was comforting after the disappointing ending.

The game overall was too easy except for the final battle, and collecting all 108 stars and building up their level did not serve much purpose other than for being a completionist and for some of the side quests. I kinda liked the trading aspect, but all the time spent on trading and unlocking better equipment wasn't worth all that much because the battles were so... easy.

I liked the music very much, but the voice acting... uhm... I actually stopped playing the game right after the first few conversations as soon as I was able to save and haven't played it for a while because I couldn't stand the superspeed chatting. After a while I finally decided to give it another go and I'm glad I did. It was a very enjoyable experience once I got used to it... but I really did not like the voices of Nimni & Fredegund (oh God her crying!) The rest of the cast were pretty decent I have to say. I liked how emotional Manaril's voice was, although at times it was overly dramatic.

I don't think I need a New Game+ to play the whole thing over again since the story is pretty linear except for the minor side quests, but I do wish I could save at the end so I can watch the cinematics and listen to the soundtrack from a separate bonus menu after finishing the game.

Well, all in all, like the others said, it's only a spin-off. It was pretty good for a handheld game, so I guess we can be more forgiving in that sense. I was actually quite surprised by the amount of cutscenes and voices to be packed in that small cart.

User avatar
patapi
Forum Moderator
Posts: 2515
Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2004 3:55 pm

Re: Beat the game. Anyone else underwhelmed?

Postby patapi » Fri Jun 05, 2009 6:08 am

Ninulneda is fake?

LanceHeart
Posts: 790
Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2007 9:48 pm

Re: Beat the game. Anyone else underwhelmed?

Postby LanceHeart » Fri Jun 05, 2009 8:01 am

NaYa wrote:The game overall was too easy except for the final battle, and collecting all 108 stars and building up their level did not serve much purpose other than for being a completionist and for some of the side quests. I kinda liked the trading aspect, but all the time spent on trading and unlocking better equipment wasn't worth all that much because the battles were so... easy.


Even the final battle was a joke. Having a decent resistance/def healer (Sophia) and actually using items made the final battles easy-peasy. Demon Corn made tanks impossibly powerful and eliminated all need to have any Rage inducing magic on anyone, freeing up another MoS slot for everyine.

Beat it at lvl 56 and it ended up being far less climactic than people were making it out to be.
Formerly known as: Gothann

NaYa
Posts: 6
Joined: Sun May 31, 2009 6:15 pm

Re: Beat the game. Anyone else underwhelmed?

Postby NaYa » Fri Jun 05, 2009 12:13 pm

patapi wrote:Ninulneda is fake?

The Company members were suspicious that the whole "Ninulneda speaking through Neira" was an act, and even Anya went to investigate the matter, but decided to drop it since it's about their belief.

User avatar
patapi
Forum Moderator
Posts: 2515
Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2004 3:55 pm

Re: Beat the game. Anyone else underwhelmed?

Postby patapi » Fri Jun 05, 2009 8:48 pm

But it wasn't claimed outright as such, was it? Unlike Ordovic.

JanusThePaladin
Posts: 710
Joined: Wed Feb 16, 2005 2:02 am
Location: Under your bed, planning your intricate death...
Contact:

Re: Beat the game. Anyone else underwhelmed?

Postby JanusThePaladin » Mon Jun 08, 2009 3:36 am

Not claimed outright, but definitely eluded too. Periodically when the Priestess was controlled by Ninulmeda the name would appear with a question mark at the end, as if to say "should you really believe this?" Also notice that all religious items turned out to be "false" chronicles? Just another little tid bit.

*SPOILERS*

Anyway, i agree with the entire sentiments of this thread. I thoroughly enjoyed the game up until the invasion of Cynas. When you get to the point before the invasion, your first thought is "really? already?" and from that point on it either moves to fast, or agonizingly slow. I didn't mind fighting the One True King, as he was eluded to throughout the entire game, as opposed to the the tree at the end of S4, however, the sudden decision that he is a Tenkai that inexplicably became all powerful and decided to merge the entire multiverse together simply for the purpose of more power, only he didnt really want the more power, he was just stuck in the loop? Thats about as far fetched and unbelievable as Culex's appearance in Super Mario RPG.

LanceHeart
Posts: 790
Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2007 9:48 pm

Re: Beat the game. Anyone else underwhelmed?

Postby LanceHeart » Mon Jun 08, 2009 8:51 pm

JanusThePaladin wrote:Anyway, i agree with the entire sentiments of this thread. I thoroughly enjoyed the game up until the invasion of Cynas. When you get to the point before the invasion, your first thought is "really? already?" and from that point on it either moves to fast, or agonizingly slow. I didn't mind fighting the One True King, as he was eluded to throughout the entire game, as opposed to the the tree at the end of S4, however, the sudden decision that he is a Tenkai that inexplicably became all powerful and decided to merge the entire multiverse together simply for the purpose of more power, only he didnt really want the more power, he was just stuck in the loop? Thats about as far fetched and unbelievable as Culex's appearance in Super Mario RPG.

Actually, the moment they mentioned "multiple stars combining into one to kill The One King" I figured out that it was what would actually be the losing choice. Every single flashback cuts to people promising to take down TOK with the combined power of the Mark of the Stars (SoD, basically) and every single one of them failed to change anything.
Formerly known as: Gothann

JanusThePaladin
Posts: 710
Joined: Wed Feb 16, 2005 2:02 am
Location: Under your bed, planning your intricate death...
Contact:

Re: Beat the game. Anyone else underwhelmed?

Postby JanusThePaladin » Mon Jun 08, 2009 9:59 pm

I concur. I mean Duilf mentions that the One King is so powerful only the stars could approach him. It just seems rediculous to me that countless otherworlds hadn't thought of using the Chronicles as a weapon against him. If they have the power to effect the true chronicle its simply logical to think you'd use them to battle the man possessing the true chronicle.

I still dont understand how the one king became so powerful as a simple tenkai star.

LanceHeart
Posts: 790
Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2007 9:48 pm

Re: Beat the game. Anyone else underwhelmed?

Postby LanceHeart » Tue Jun 09, 2009 6:08 pm

I'm guessing you didn't see the bad ending. If you do that, all of the SoDs except the Tenkai Star die in order to combine into one powerful force. It kills The One King, but in turn the final SoD becomes The One King due to the world having one "destiny".

I mentioned this in another thread of mine, talking about how Tierkreis corrupted the meaning of what Stars of Destiny are compared to the original series.
Formerly known as: Gothann

User avatar
XIII
Posts: 39
Joined: Wed May 13, 2009 1:42 pm
Location: Kent, WA

Re: Beat the game. Anyone else underwhelmed?

Postby XIII » Wed Jun 10, 2009 12:06 am

LanceHeart wrote:Tierkreis corrupted the meaning of what Stars of Destiny are compared to the original series.


I must say I gotta agree with you here. I still don't understand (if thought in the main series) how the unification of all stars will cause one "destiny" to happen. There should be more than 108 stars born (although no more than one set of 108 can be in the same war). That would mean all those unique stars are able to change the destiny of their world. But then again they did show that by touching a book you turn from a non-star to a 'starbearer' so it just became a whole mess of mumbo jumbo.

I really hope they don't implement this concept to the main series.

JanusThePaladin wrote:I concur. I mean Duilf mentions that the One King is so powerful only the stars could approach him. It just seems rediculous to me that countless otherworlds hadn't thought of using the Chronicles as a weapon against him. If they have the power to effect the true chronicle its simply logical to think you'd use them to battle the man possessing the true chronicle.


Doesn't it require 12 chronicles to at least do some damage on the One King. Sure the stars could approach him because they were 'star bearers' but they didn't have enough power to do some damage on him. Maybe the reason they haven't tried to use the true chronicle was because they only thought of it as an ancient artifact or an item passed down by their ancestors?

ThricebornPhoenix
Posts: 20
Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2008 10:29 am

Re: Beat the game. Anyone else underwhelmed?

Postby ThricebornPhoenix » Thu Jun 11, 2009 2:05 pm

XIII wrote:But then again they did show that by touching a book you turn from a non-star to a 'starbearer' so it just became a whole mess of mumbo jumbo.

Technically (IIRC), it's supposed to be one's mindset aligning with their star that does it. Getting the Marks is just the proof.

What I want to know is, how is any of this worse than the main series? SII introduced a lot of confusion where 'Stars of Destiny' are concerned - SI characters losing their star or returning under a different one, or certain characters joining under one of several possible stars depending on who else you've recruited. Not to mention non-star recruits.
"Evil is always a distortion or an exaggeration of something that is good. People don't understand that now." - Gene Wolfe, an interview

JanusThePaladin
Posts: 710
Joined: Wed Feb 16, 2005 2:02 am
Location: Under your bed, planning your intricate death...
Contact:

Re: Beat the game. Anyone else underwhelmed?

Postby JanusThePaladin » Thu Jun 11, 2009 5:00 pm

Its worse because its completely different. Whether or not someone continues to bear a star when they return to the game doesnt change the fact that the stars of destiny bear the same purpose in every game up til tierkries.


Return to “Suikoden Tierkreis Plot and Character Questions”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest